Morality is a spook
It's entirely dependent on how empathetic an individual is.
Quote from: Ian on May 31, 2016, 11:56:02 PMIt's entirely dependent on how empathetic an individual is. Substitute "empathetic" with "intelligent" and I'd agree.
Wouldn't being more empathetic of other people make you more intelligent? I mean, being able to understand how people feel is very rare thing these days.
Objectively, there is a code of ethics that, when followed diligently, will bring about a utopic society, which we should all want.What that code of ethics looks like is a matter of discussion, like a science--but that does not make it subjective.
Morality doesn't exist on an objective level.
Quote from: Verbatim on May 31, 2016, 11:47:54 PMObjectively, there is a code of ethics that, when followed diligently, will bring about a utopic society, which we should all want.What that code of ethics looks like is a matter of discussion, like a science--but that does not make it subjective.Utopia is subjective so...
Quote from: Kirlia on June 01, 2016, 03:59:20 AMQuote from: Verbatim on May 31, 2016, 11:47:54 PMObjectively, there is a code of ethics that, when followed diligently, will bring about a utopic society, which we should all want.What that code of ethics looks like is a matter of discussion, like a science--but that does not make it subjective.Utopia is subjective so...Nope. It's possible to prove someone's idea of a utopia as not utopic at all.
Quote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2016, 12:09:24 PMQuote from: Kirlia on June 01, 2016, 03:59:20 AMQuote from: Verbatim on May 31, 2016, 11:47:54 PMObjectively, there is a code of ethics that, when followed diligently, will bring about a utopic society, which we should all want.What that code of ethics looks like is a matter of discussion, like a science--but that does not make it subjective.Utopia is subjective so...Nope. It's possible to prove someone's idea of a utopia as not utopic at all. It's 100% subjective.
Quote from: Kirlia on June 01, 2016, 12:11:59 PMQuote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2016, 12:09:24 PMQuote from: Kirlia on June 01, 2016, 03:59:20 AMQuote from: Verbatim on May 31, 2016, 11:47:54 PMObjectively, there is a code of ethics that, when followed diligently, will bring about a utopic society, which we should all want.What that code of ethics looks like is a matter of discussion, like a science--but that does not make it subjective.Utopia is subjective so...Nope. It's possible to prove someone's idea of a utopia as not utopic at all. It's 100% subjective.100% wrong.
pain is bad
matter of opinion
Quote from: Word Wizard on June 01, 2016, 09:14:21 AMQuote from: HERE COME DAT BOI on May 31, 2016, 11:55:15 PMMorality doesn't exist on an objective level.Don't respond for 24 hours if you're spooked.All non-theistic moral systems are based on arbitrary values that have no inherent worth.
Quote from: HERE COME DAT BOI on May 31, 2016, 11:55:15 PMMorality doesn't exist on an objective level.Don't respond for 24 hours if you're spooked.
They always boil down to some bullshit like "pain is bad", shit that is ultimately a matter of opinion and personal interpretation.
That isn't to say morality is subjective, because that's kind of retarded. The validity of moral systems is subjective in practice, but the truth is inherent morality doesn't exist, it is a fixed idea some guy came up with and sold to the rest of the world.
Morality is subject to where you are. Western society agrees that killing is wrong. Unless you are a soldier sent to kill on behalf of that society. We say theft is wrong, but steal when we have no other option. An Indian company using intellectual property to make anti viral drugs to combat AIDS in Africa is OK, but robbing a 7-11 is wrong when you're trying to feed your family. Everything is relative. Morality has no static boundary.
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on June 12, 2016, 01:40:06 AMMorality is subject to where you are. Western society agrees that killing is wrong. Unless you are a soldier sent to kill on behalf of that society. We say theft is wrong, but steal when we have no other option. An Indian company using intellectual property to make anti viral drugs to combat AIDS in Africa is OK, but robbing a 7-11 is wrong when you're trying to feed your family. Everything is relative. Morality has no static boundary.This is called cultural relativism--and not only is it just flat-out wrong, it's a toxic way of thinking, because you can literally justify anything in the world, no matter how atrocious, by simply calling it "relative."Just because people are idiots and think that "killing is wrong unless you're a soldier" doesn't make it true. The fact of the matter is that killing is morally neutral. It's not inherently wrong, ethically speaking. If someone is trying to rape your wife, killing the motherfucker would absolutely be morally justified.At least in my eyes, it would be justified--but that doesn't make it subjective, just because that's my moral interpretation. Just like scientists can all have their own interpretations and hypotheses about the nature of reality, we can have our own philosophical viewpoints about the nature of ethics. But the bottom line is this: One of us is right, and the other is wrong. The way we figure out who's right and who's wrong is through discussion.The biggest caveat of cultural relativism that nobody ever thinks about is the mere fact that it's not just the where that's culturally relative--it's also the when. For example--Do you believe Western society has made moral progress over the past few centuries? How about the past few millenia? Do you think we've grown as a society, ethically speaking?If you said "yes," you're contradicting your culturally relativistic beliefs. If morality is relative, you cannot argue that we've progressed or regressed as a society. Thousands of years ago, when we were still living in caves and beating each other to death with clubs--we have NO better a concept of ethics now then we did when were still doing that shit. That's according to cultural relativism.I think we have grown past that, personally. But that can only be believed if you also believe that there is an objective standard through which ethics can be measured. Some of us are going to be right, and some of us are going to be dead wrong.
You post that because of where and when you are. Morality is nothing more than what has been agreed on by the group as necessary for survival.
Example: even 20 years ago homosexuality was a complete taboo. Homosexuals were routinely attacked and persecuted. Yet today they can marry and be open on who they are. Their attackers are demonized. Last night's shooting even 20 years ago would have barely been page 3 news.
"Morality is subjective"
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