"Minimum wage jobs are meant for teens"

Mad Max · August 24, 2014, 02:34:52 AM

I see this argument a lot when talking about increasing minimum wage - that minimum wage jobs are designed for low-skill workers, usually teens/high school students who just need a few bucks to buy a cheeseburger and see a movie.

Well, problem is that there are still tons of people that fill these positions that are older adults, so kids can't take their spot. From personal experience, Choo Choo [I shit you not] is an old Chinese [?] lady who has been working at the Carl's Jr by my house, delivering dine-in orders to your table, since I was 12. I'm coming up on 30. She should have moved up and out by now, but instead has been occupying a spot for over a decade that more than a few rounds of teens could have used for job experience to speak of on an otherwise-empty resume

Is there any solution to this problem?

Juuzou · August 24, 2014, 06:01:44 AM

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More Than Mortal · August 24, 2014, 09:08:46 AM

Maybe she's wanted to stay there all that time? Maybe she has inheritance or something? Unless you can give me her bank statement, I don't think this Choo-choo can be used as a proper example.

However, what do you suggest? Price floors will always cause an increase in supply. Minimum wage will either literally result in jobs being lost or slow the growth of the labour market. I don't know what the situation is like in the U.S., but over here the difference between minimum wage and "living wage" is almost exactly what the government taxes them.

I do know, for the U.S., that the most effective forms of poverty reduction are transfers and subsidies like the E.I.T.C., which'd be a far better model than simply raising the minimum wage like a Neanderthal with a club.

Kinder Graham · August 24, 2014, 11:53:21 AM

Blame business that outsource jobs which takes away opportunities for Choo-Choo to have a higher wage and for some teen to take her spot

Either way, inflation is the current problem. Raising minimum wage will do nothing except increasing the prices of goods, making the increase of wages invalid to be supportive.

More Than Mortal · August 24, 2014, 12:02:07 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on August 24, 2014, 11:53:21 AM

Blame business that outsource jobs which takes away opportunities for Choo-Choo to have a higher wage and for some teen to take her spot

Except I've explained to you time and time again that effective allocation of labour is good because it makes everybody better off.

Magos Domina · August 24, 2014, 12:04:12 PM

Quote from: Nuka on August 24, 2014, 05:30:04 AM

Try getting a job in southern California before you're 18.
Guess what? It's nearly impossible, even if you have things like volunteering experience.

Teens aren't the majority of minimum wage jobs anymore.

Not just Cali, the UK (especially NI) is pretty bad for it. Big companies like Tescos have been recruiting older people who've lost their jobs due to the recession over first time workers.

Try getting a job without experience here, you need experience to get the experience for fucks sake. It's a joke.

Kinder Graham · August 24, 2014, 12:05:21 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on August 24, 2014, 12:02:07 PM

Except I've explained to you time and time again that effective allocation of labour is good because it makes everybody better off.

Fucking lol my sides

Let's see if you can comprehend this: 1000 people make money and live great. Boss guy want more money so he outsource 1000 jobs. 1000 people with jobs have no more jobs. 1000 people now poor

More Than Mortal · August 24, 2014, 12:08:05 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on August 24, 2014, 12:05:21 PM

Fucking lol my sides

Let's see if you can comprehend this: 1000 people make money and live great. Boss guy want more money so he outsource 1000 jobs. 1000 people with jobs have no more jobs. 1000 people now poor

The British economy loses about 3 million jobs a year.

And not everybody is unemployed and dying in the streets because jobs have either timed out or been outsourced. Y'know, it's almost like labour markets change and the pool of jobs is neither static nor pre-determined.

Phwoar! Imagine that; the labour market not being a zero-sum game! If there were only a way to make that true!

Oh wait, only somebody with very little understanding of economics could think it isn't true in the first fucking place.

Juuzou · August 24, 2014, 12:28:14 PM

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Magos Domina · August 24, 2014, 12:32:06 PM

Quote from: Lady Noelle on August 24, 2014, 12:28:14 PM

I have been trying to get a job all year long, and even with two years of experience as a mechanic, I could still not get one. I finally said fuck it and am going to college next year.

Basically what I'm doing, despite experience as a bar person I can't find a job here, either I don't have the experience in the type of bar they are hiring or I'm a few months short of what they're looking for (yes they take that into account ffs).

So I'm still applying for jobs but while I wait I'm thinking of volunteering at a charity shop and applying for a course with my cousin in Feb. Still I'd love to be back behind the bar.

Kinder Graham · August 24, 2014, 01:49:38 PM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on August 24, 2014, 12:08:05 PM

The British economy loses about 3 million jobs a year.

And not everybody is unemployed and dying in the streets because jobs have either timed out or been outsourced. Y'know, it's almost like labour markets change and the pool of jobs is neither static nor pre-determined.

Phwoar! Imagine that; the labour market not being a zero-sum game! If there were only a way to make that true!

Oh wait, only somebody with very little understanding of economics could think it isn't true in the first fucking place.

So you're telling me all 3 million jobs have been replaced? I seriously doubt that. Those that still don't have jobs is primarily due to the outsourcing of jobs, especially if a person's field of work has always been manufacturing, call offices, or any other job that is outsourced. If a position opens up in sales or food services, do you seriously expect somebody with a history of manufacturing to get any position when somebody else who has sales experience applies? Any employer will take an experienced person on the field over somebody who has no idea what they're doing

This will continue happening, leaving people poor, out of work, and a burden towards others since they will have to rely on the welfare system

More Than Mortal · August 24, 2014, 01:54:19 PM

Quote from: Kinder_ on August 24, 2014, 01:49:38 PM

So you're telling me all 3 million jobs have been replaced? I seriously doubt that. Those that still don't have jobs is primarily due to the outsourcing of jobs, especially if a person's field of work has always been manufacturing, call offices, or any other job that is outsourced. If a position opens up in sales or food services, do you seriously expect somebody with a history of manufacturing to get any position when somebody else who has sales experience applies? Any employer will take an experienced person on the field over somebody who has no idea what they're doing

This will continue happening, leaving people poor, out of work, and a burden towards others since they will have to rely on the welfare system

Not exactly three million jobs will be created, but it maintains an equilibrium around that point with maybe a few hundred either side. Fact of the matter is that somebody losing their job - especially in the name of consumer surplus - isn't necessarily bad and can even be good.

If every Englishman found himself unemployed tomorrow because something absolutely incomprehensible happened to the job market, that wouldn't be good, because the labour is idle. Outsourcing usually just re-allocates labour, which is the good sort of unemployment.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · August 24, 2014, 06:48:01 PM

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August 24, 2014, 06:51:24 PM

save Choo Choo 2014

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · August 24, 2014, 07:07:52 PM

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Nick McIntyre · August 24, 2014, 07:51:23 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on August 24, 2014, 06:48:01 PM

Am I the only one that didn't have trouble finding a job when I was a teenager? I got a job right when I turned 16. I've actually had 5 different jobs since then. Maybe it's because I live in a small town, I don't really know.

Yeah, mostly a regional issue. Though it did take me a year and a half to get a job in my tiny town at fucking Wal-Mart. Our unemployment's been down the past couple of years now though.