"It's all the West's fault"

Mordo · September 23, 2015, 06:25:40 PM

Quote from: challengerX on September 23, 2015, 06:18:17 PM

To deny that it's literally America and Britain's fault that Iran is now a shithole is to deny history.

It's more than just official wars. It's shadow ops like the coup in Iran that has people saying "it's the West's fault". It's not entirely the West's fault, but you can't deny heavy involvement that has had very serious negative consequences in numerous countries.

I never posited the notion that we've never been a problematic influence to a select few countries. Iran is a prime example of that.

I'm just tired of hearing the dominant narrative that the West is solely responsible for all of the Middle East's issues, when it's quite clearly not.

challengerX · September 23, 2015, 06:28:25 PM

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gats · September 23, 2015, 06:32:49 PM

Always love hearing people give their justifications for war, I mean it's not like you have to live through the horrible conditions. Typical.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · September 23, 2015, 06:38:18 PM

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Mordo · September 23, 2015, 06:38:35 PM

Always love hearing people bitch about solutions then offer no viable alternatives.

Oh yeah, I'm sure diplomatic relations with a psychopathic warlord to politely ask him to stop being a psychopathic warlord is going to work wonders. Whatever keeps the fantasy afloat.

Luciana · September 23, 2015, 06:40:31 PM

Israel are a bunch of land grabbing Jews who need to slow their roll.

challengerX · September 23, 2015, 06:55:51 PM

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Pippen · September 23, 2015, 06:57:49 PM

Just gonna note something

Most US wars(not counting recent Iraq, Iran, terrorist wars) is where the US joined in, not really starting(except 1).

challengerX · September 23, 2015, 06:58:30 PM

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cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · September 23, 2015, 06:59:58 PM

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🍁 Aria 🔮 · September 23, 2015, 07:02:10 PM

Quote from: PKMN Trainer Pip on September 23, 2015, 06:57:49 PM

Just gonna note something

Most US wars(not counting recent Iraq, Iran, terrorist wars) is where the US joined in, not really starting(except 1).

Two if you count the Revolutionary War.

challengerX · September 23, 2015, 07:03:51 PM

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ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · September 24, 2015, 08:40:43 AM

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🍁 Aria 🔮 · September 24, 2015, 11:55:30 AM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 08:40:43 AM

Quote from: Prime Uta on September 23, 2015, 07:02:10 PM
Quote from: PKMN Trainer Pip on September 23, 2015, 06:57:49 PM
Just gonna note something

Most US wars(not counting recent Iraq, Iran, terrorist wars) is where the US joined in, not really starting(except 1).
Two if you count the Revolutionary War.
I'm REALLY tired of this "everyone who fights an established regime is a terorist" meme

I didn't say anything about terrorism, if that's what you're implying. The Revolutionary War was a war that the US started, as was the War of 1812.

Mr. Psychologist · September 24, 2015, 12:29:37 PM

Quote from: challengerX on September 23, 2015, 06:58:30 PM

The idea that a country needs to be "Westernized" to be a good country is disgusting. Iran was a great and liberal country before America and Britian's meddling.

That's just silly talk, if a country doesn't have freedom fries how can it be a good country?

+++

One of the worst things the UK has ever done is help fuck up Iran, it's utterly laughable that one of the better countries in the middle east turned into our 'worst enemy' and then we cosied up to the fucking saudis of all people. Great trade off right there.

10/10 would wahabbi again.

Alternative Facts · September 24, 2015, 12:51:06 PM

The notion that the US and her allies need to spread democracy and freedom is ridiculous.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · September 24, 2015, 04:52:54 PM

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Alternative Facts · September 24, 2015, 05:07:45 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 04:52:54 PM

But the world is objectively better off with us running shit.

Absolutely not.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · September 24, 2015, 05:09:48 PM

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Alternative Facts · September 24, 2015, 05:11:41 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:09:48 PM

Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 04:52:54 PM
But the world is objectively better off with us running shit.

Absolutely not.
Would you rather see Russian or Chinese hegemony?

Look at the other world powers and ask yourself how life would be if they had the influence the US has.

I'd rather see none of the above.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · September 24, 2015, 05:13:19 PM

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Alternative Facts · September 24, 2015, 05:15:25 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:13:19 PM

Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:11:41 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:09:48 PM
Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 04:52:54 PM
But the world is objectively better off with us running shit.

Absolutely not.
Would you rather see Russian or Chinese hegemony?

Look at the other world powers and ask yourself how life would be if they had the influence the US has.

I'd rather see none of the above.
And I'd rather see us in a world with no governments at all, but we have to play with the hand we're dealt and right now the best combination we have is one with the US, or at the very least the collective "west", at the head of the pack.

The United States needs to focus on our growing plethora of problems internally.

We can't keep ignoring those to play Freedom Squad.

DAS B00T x2 · September 24, 2015, 05:19:01 PM

Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:15:25 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:13:19 PM
Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:11:41 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:09:48 PM
Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 04:52:54 PM
But the world is objectively better off with us running shit.

Absolutely not.
Would you rather see Russian or Chinese hegemony?

Look at the other world powers and ask yourself how life would be if they had the influence the US has.

I'd rather see none of the above.
And I'd rather see us in a world with no governments at all, but we have to play with the hand we're dealt and right now the best combination we have is one with the US, or at the very least the collective "west", at the head of the pack.

The United States needs to focus on our growing plethora of problems internally.

We can't keep ignoring those to play Freedom Squad.

Oh sure, now we want to fix it, but when I say to ship the blacks back to Africa I'm a fucking racist.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · September 24, 2015, 05:25:03 PM

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Alternative Facts · September 24, 2015, 05:32:08 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:25:03 PM

Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:15:25 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:13:19 PM
Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:11:41 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:09:48 PM
Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 04:52:54 PM
But the world is objectively better off with us running shit.

Absolutely not.
Would you rather see Russian or Chinese hegemony?

Look at the other world powers and ask yourself how life would be if they had the influence the US has.

I'd rather see none of the above.
And I'd rather see us in a world with no governments at all, but we have to play with the hand we're dealt and right now the best combination we have is one with the US, or at the very least the collective "west", at the head of the pack.

The United States needs to focus on our growing plethora of problems internally.

We can't keep ignoring those to play Freedom Squad.
For every problem solved a new perceived problem will prop up.

Meanwhile, Rosija is invading the baltic states and China controls Taiwan.

We don't have to ignore internal problems to keep the wolves of the world in line.

We also don't need to start a conflict with Russia and China.

It is not our responsibility to be the Worlds Police and get involved in every conflict, aside from humanitarian aid.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · September 24, 2015, 05:34:10 PM

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Alternative Facts · September 24, 2015, 05:35:24 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:34:10 PM

Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:25:03 PM
Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:15:25 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:13:19 PM
Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:11:41 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:09:48 PM
Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 04:52:54 PM
But the world is objectively better off with us running shit.

Absolutely not.
Would you rather see Russian or Chinese hegemony?

Look at the other world powers and ask yourself how life would be if they had the influence the US has.

I'd rather see none of the above.
And I'd rather see us in a world with no governments at all, but we have to play with the hand we're dealt and right now the best combination we have is one with the US, or at the very least the collective "west", at the head of the pack.

The United States needs to focus on our growing plethora of problems internally.

We can't keep ignoring those to play Freedom Squad.
For every problem solved a new perceived problem will prop up.

Meanwhile, Rosija is invading the baltic states and China controls Taiwan.

We don't have to ignore internal problems to keep the wolves of the world in line.

We also don't need to start a conflict with Russia and China.

It is not our responsibility to be the Worlds Police and get involved in every conflict, aside from humanitarian aid.
>start

Start, engage, join - We do not need it.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · September 24, 2015, 05:35:37 PM

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Luciana · September 24, 2015, 05:36:11 PM

With how much military power we have, I think it is somewhat of a responsibility. Our military is basically a deterrent anyway, and our allies with regions prevents further wars from breaking out.

It seems also that the longer we go on in this long peaceful age, the more complacent the next generation gets. We forget what it took to actually get here and how much fighting there actually WAS, and how we really needed to be involved.

Backing out of the world stage would make the world more unstable, whether we want to accept it or not. Now I'm not saying invade *insert middle eastern county here* or anything like that. Just the fact our influence is vast.

Alternative Facts · September 24, 2015, 05:38:14 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on September 24, 2015, 05:35:37 PM

Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:25:03 PM
Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:15:25 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:13:19 PM
Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:11:41 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 05:09:48 PM
Quote from: spewky bewgie on September 24, 2015, 05:07:45 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on September 24, 2015, 04:52:54 PM
But the world is objectively better off with us running shit.

Absolutely not.
Would you rather see Russian or Chinese hegemony?

Look at the other world powers and ask yourself how life would be if they had the influence the US has.

I'd rather see none of the above.
And I'd rather see us in a world with no governments at all, but we have to play with the hand we're dealt and right now the best combination we have is one with the US, or at the very least the collective "west", at the head of the pack.

The United States needs to focus on our growing plethora of problems internally.

We can't keep ignoring those to play Freedom Squad.
For every problem solved a new perceived problem will prop up.

Meanwhile, Rosija is invading the baltic states and China controls Taiwan.

We don't have to ignore internal problems to keep the wolves of the world in line.

We also don't need to start a conflict with Russia and China.

It is not our responsibility to be the Worlds Police and get involved in every conflict, aside from humanitarian aid.
Actually it is. You can thank Theodore Roosevelt for that

Ew.