Quote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:34:47 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:33:17 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:31:51 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:30:59 PMEasy, they give you fake info. Keep torturing them until they give you the right info.Or, you know. Until you've committed murder.Of course, I'm sure that's no big deal.Its really not. War isn't pretty. You have to do some messed up things to win. If you have to go to these lengths, violating international law and all that fun shit - have you actually won?Yep
Quote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:33:17 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:31:51 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:30:59 PMEasy, they give you fake info. Keep torturing them until they give you the right info.Or, you know. Until you've committed murder.Of course, I'm sure that's no big deal.Its really not. War isn't pretty. You have to do some messed up things to win. If you have to go to these lengths, violating international law and all that fun shit - have you actually won?
Quote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:31:51 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:30:59 PMEasy, they give you fake info. Keep torturing them until they give you the right info.Or, you know. Until you've committed murder.Of course, I'm sure that's no big deal.Its really not. War isn't pretty. You have to do some messed up things to win.
Quote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:30:59 PMEasy, they give you fake info. Keep torturing them until they give you the right info.Or, you know. Until you've committed murder.Of course, I'm sure that's no big deal.
Easy, they give you fake info. Keep torturing them until they give you the right info.
Quote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:36:38 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:34:47 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:33:17 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:31:51 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:30:59 PMEasy, they give you fake info. Keep torturing them until they give you the right info.Or, you know. Until you've committed murder.Of course, I'm sure that's no big deal.Its really not. War isn't pretty. You have to do some messed up things to win. If you have to go to these lengths, violating international law and all that fun shit - have you actually won?YepWrong answer. Remind me, how exactly, we've won in the Middle East and fighting terror? We lost four thousand lives for....nothing.#'Murica
Quote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:37:35 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:36:38 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:34:47 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:33:17 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:31:51 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:30:59 PMEasy, they give you fake info. Keep torturing them until they give you the right info.Or, you know. Until you've committed murder.Of course, I'm sure that's no big deal.Its really not. War isn't pretty. You have to do some messed up things to win. If you have to go to these lengths, violating international law and all that fun shit - have you actually won?YepWrong answer. Remind me, how exactly, we've won in the Middle East and fighting terror? We lost four thousand lives for....nothing.#'MuricaIts really easy to say that, but who knows what could have been. We could have had 2-3 more major attacks on our homeland without this war. But alright.
Its really easy to say that, but who knows what could have been. We could have had 2-3 more major attacks on our homeland without this war. But alright.
Quote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:40:45 PMIts really easy to say that, but who knows what could have been. We could have had 2-3 more major attacks on our homeland without this war. But alright.So, we invaded two countries, both for over a decade (And one of which had no involvement in the 9/11 attacks), lost ~ four thousand lives, spent trillions of dollars, and helped destabilize the region more...on a question of "Oh, this could happen!...."Seriously, the Vietnam War was more justifiable than that, and the Vietnam War was a joke.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:44:21 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:40:45 PMIts really easy to say that, but who knows what could have been. We could have had 2-3 more major attacks on our homeland without this war. But alright.So, we invaded two countries, both for over a decade (And one of which had no involvement in the 9/11 attacks), lost ~ four thousand lives, spent trillions of dollars, and helped destabilize the region more...on a question of "Oh, this could happen!...."Seriously, the Vietnam War was more justifiable than that, and the Vietnam War was a joke.No, we went to war because we were attacked. Or do you seem to forget 9/11?
Quote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:51:11 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:44:21 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:40:45 PMIts really easy to say that, but who knows what could have been. We could have had 2-3 more major attacks on our homeland without this war. But alright.So, we invaded two countries, both for over a decade (And one of which had no involvement in the 9/11 attacks), lost ~ four thousand lives, spent trillions of dollars, and helped destabilize the region more...on a question of "Oh, this could happen!...."Seriously, the Vietnam War was more justifiable than that, and the Vietnam War was a joke.No, we went to war because we were attacked. Or do you seem to forget 9/11?I'm sorry, Iraq was involved in 9/11?
Quote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:51:41 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:51:11 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:44:21 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:40:45 PMIts really easy to say that, but who knows what could have been. We could have had 2-3 more major attacks on our homeland without this war. But alright.So, we invaded two countries, both for over a decade (And one of which had no involvement in the 9/11 attacks), lost ~ four thousand lives, spent trillions of dollars, and helped destabilize the region more...on a question of "Oh, this could happen!...."Seriously, the Vietnam War was more justifiable than that, and the Vietnam War was a joke.No, we went to war because we were attacked. Or do you seem to forget 9/11?I'm sorry, Iraq was involved in 9/11?Nope, but they were a huge threat to our national security.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:29:57 PMQuote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:28:26 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:27:29 PMQuote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 09, 2014, 12:27:05 PMbut I don't see all torture being badCare to give an example where it's not bad?Torturing a known terrorist for informationQuote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 09, 2014, 12:29:29 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:27:29 PMQuote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 09, 2014, 12:27:05 PMbut I don't see all torture being badCare to give an example where it's not bad?Dealing with terrorists; hostile foreigners actively in war against the U.S. What the Japs did in WW2 though is on the side of excessiveDespite the fact that most information coming from torture turns out to be inaccurate or just plain false?Hell, the report even has a section stating the CIA overaggerated the role of torture in getting information on Bin Laden.Easy, they give you fake info. Keep torturing them until they give you the right info.
Quote from: PSU on December 09, 2014, 12:28:26 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:27:29 PMQuote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 09, 2014, 12:27:05 PMbut I don't see all torture being badCare to give an example where it's not bad?Torturing a known terrorist for informationQuote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 09, 2014, 12:29:29 PMQuote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:27:29 PMQuote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 09, 2014, 12:27:05 PMbut I don't see all torture being badCare to give an example where it's not bad?Dealing with terrorists; hostile foreigners actively in war against the U.S. What the Japs did in WW2 though is on the side of excessiveDespite the fact that most information coming from torture turns out to be inaccurate or just plain false?Hell, the report even has a section stating the CIA overaggerated the role of torture in getting information on Bin Laden.
Quote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:27:29 PMQuote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 09, 2014, 12:27:05 PMbut I don't see all torture being badCare to give an example where it's not bad?Torturing a known terrorist for information
Quote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 09, 2014, 12:27:05 PMbut I don't see all torture being badCare to give an example where it's not bad?
but I don't see all torture being bad
Quote from: IcyWind on December 09, 2014, 12:27:29 PMQuote from: KletzenbrotEssen on December 09, 2014, 12:27:05 PMbut I don't see all torture being badCare to give an example where it's not bad?Dealing with terrorists; hostile foreigners actively in war against the U.S. What the Japs did in WW2 though is on the side of excessive
But for a country, decried as the world's premiere powerhouse and who feels the need to get involved in any global affair, you kind of expect other countries to amplify our flaws.
Especially when it comes to violation of basic international treaties.
Whoever merged my thread, you fool, my topic is totally different-I was talking about the girl's reaction, not the CIA shit
Yet the program allowed the two psychologists to assess their own work — they gave it excellent grades — and to charge a daily rate of $1,800 each, four times the pay of other interrogators, to waterboard detainees. Dr. Mitchell and Dr. Jessen later started a company that took over and ran the C.I.A. program from 2005 until it was closed in 2009. The C.I.A. paid it $81 million, plus $1 million to protect the company and its employees from legal liability.
This is my favorite [sarcasm] parthttp://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/world/senate-torture-report-shows-cia-infighting-over-interrogation-program.htmlQuoteYet the program allowed the two psychologists to assess their own work — they gave it excellent grades — and to charge a daily rate of $1,800 each, four times the pay of other interrogators, to waterboard detainees. Dr. Mitchell and Dr. Jessen later started a company that took over and ran the C.I.A. program from 2005 until it was closed in 2009. The C.I.A. paid it $81 million, plus $1 million to protect the company and its employees from legal liability.holy shit.
I could see some instances in which torture could be ethical. Not to say the CIA hasn't totally overdone it. Although, I think wartime collateral damage is more morally troublesome than torture.
Quote from: Brociopath on December 09, 2014, 08:36:04 PMHonestly those animals in ISIS deserve every way of torture possible.ISIS wasn't even a group when this was going on. Not to mention a lot of detainees were innocent civilians. You want to be subhuman garbage like ISIS and stoop to their level? Go ahead. But America shouldn't be about that. Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 09, 2014, 09:58:56 PM>Icywind>Being this liberalWhat a surprise. Torture the bastards, I sayYou realize a lot innocent civilians, including women and children were tortured in the black sites? Or do you enjoy being ignorant and chanting "USA" when you hear about torture? Fucking hell no wonder the world hates us.
Honestly those animals in ISIS deserve every way of torture possible.
>Icywind>Being this liberalWhat a surprise. Torture the bastards, I say
Quote from: challengerX on December 10, 2014, 04:59:30 AMQuote from: Brociopath on December 09, 2014, 08:36:04 PMHonestly those animals in ISIS deserve every way of torture possible.ISIS wasn't even a group when this was going on. Not to mention a lot of detainees were innocent civilians. You want to be subhuman garbage like ISIS and stoop to their level? Go ahead. But America shouldn't be about that. Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 09, 2014, 09:58:56 PM>Icywind>Being this liberalWhat a surprise. Torture the bastards, I sayYou realize a lot innocent civilians, including women and children were tortured in the black sites? Or do you enjoy being ignorant and chanting "USA" when you hear about torture? Fucking hell no wonder the world hates us.1. You need proof they did that2. Even if they did, it was for good reason
Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 10, 2014, 05:01:40 AMQuote from: challengerX on December 10, 2014, 04:59:30 AMQuote from: Brociopath on December 09, 2014, 08:36:04 PMHonestly those animals in ISIS deserve every way of torture possible.ISIS wasn't even a group when this was going on. Not to mention a lot of detainees were innocent civilians. You want to be subhuman garbage like ISIS and stoop to their level? Go ahead. But America shouldn't be about that. Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 09, 2014, 09:58:56 PM>Icywind>Being this liberalWhat a surprise. Torture the bastards, I sayYou realize a lot innocent civilians, including women and children were tortured in the black sites? Or do you enjoy being ignorant and chanting "USA" when you hear about torture? Fucking hell no wonder the world hates us.1. You need proof they did that2. Even if they did, it was for good reasonSo essentially what you're saying is that it's ok for innocent people to suffer as long as we're okay?
Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 10, 2014, 05:01:40 AMQuote from: challengerX on December 10, 2014, 04:59:30 AMQuote from: Brociopath on December 09, 2014, 08:36:04 PMHonestly those animals in ISIS deserve every way of torture possible.ISIS wasn't even a group when this was going on. Not to mention a lot of detainees were innocent civilians. You want to be subhuman garbage like ISIS and stoop to their level? Go ahead. But America shouldn't be about that. Quote from: aTALLmidget on December 09, 2014, 09:58:56 PM>Icywind>Being this liberalWhat a surprise. Torture the bastards, I sayYou realize a lot innocent civilians, including women and children were tortured in the black sites? Or do you enjoy being ignorant and chanting "USA" when you hear about torture? Fucking hell no wonder the world hates us.1. You need proof they did that2. Even if they did, it was for good reasonhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_prison_abuse_scandalshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abusehttp://ccrjustice.org/learn-more/faqs/faqs%3A-what-are-ghost-detentions-and-black-siteshttp://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/iraq-war-on-terror/the-cia-torture-report-what-you-need-to-know/http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqtortures.htmlYou're seriously going to sit there and say torturing children is good and useful?
"CIA Misled Public, President Bush on Torture" - Senate Report Released
