"America does not have a gun problem..."

Flee · October 12, 2015, 01:53:19 PM

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Assassin 11D7 · October 12, 2015, 02:07:56 PM

Quote

Gun violence is caused by guns. More specifically, the glorification of these tools as part of the very prevalent American gun culture, their extreme availability to the general public and the extraordinarily high rates of private gun ownership.

So, since you say that none of those single factors are responsible for gun violence, wouldn't it make more sense that a variety of factors are responsible for the violence and the gun is just used to express it? I really don't see how guns being a prominent part of the country's culture is to blame for the violence, how could the gun be the root of the problem?

🍁 Aria 🔮 · October 12, 2015, 02:11:36 PM

The biggest problem in the US is that we always want one thing to solve all of our problems. And the truth is, these aren't problems that can just be fixed with a couple of laws; it requires understanding that they are complicated issues that require a lot of changes, not only in legislature, but also society itself.

Flee · October 12, 2015, 05:20:28 PM

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Flee · October 12, 2015, 05:55:22 PM

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PSU · October 12, 2015, 06:30:42 PM

Wah spoons make me fat

Republicunt · October 12, 2015, 07:45:58 PM

Yeah despite the soaring murder rate committed with firearms and a school being shot up every week, the Republicunts don't care. So long as people are purchasing guns and the NRA continues making a profit, everything is fine in their eyes.

Honestly, I think guns should just be banned outright. I don't think gun control will do much good as it's far too easy for the mentally ill/deranged to get their hands on a gun now. Either guns will be banned altogether or guns will remain untouched. I honestly don't think a middle ground can be achieved here in America's case. I don't think gun crime will ever go away completely but I do believe it will go down drastically if guns were restricted. Just my two cents anyway.

Republicunt · October 12, 2015, 07:48:53 PM

Quote from: PSU on October 12, 2015, 06:30:42 PM

Wah spoons make me fat

Oh, no "more guns = less crime" horseshit?

Mordo · October 12, 2015, 07:49:47 PM

Max get off your alts.

DAS B00T x2 · October 12, 2015, 07:52:38 PM

Quote from: Republicunt on October 12, 2015, 07:48:53 PM

Quote from: PSU on October 12, 2015, 06:30:42 PM
Wah spoons make me fat
Oh, no "more guns = less crime" horseshit?

Gun ownership rates have been declining
Mass shootings have been going up

Checkmate, Dustin.

cxfhvxgkcf-56:7 · October 12, 2015, 07:55:15 PM

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DAS B00T x2 · October 12, 2015, 07:57:24 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 12, 2015, 07:55:15 PM

Quote from: DAS r00d d00d B00T on October 12, 2015, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: Republicunt on October 12, 2015, 07:48:53 PM
Quote from: PSU on October 12, 2015, 06:30:42 PM
Wah spoons make me fat
Oh, no "more guns = less crime" horseshit?
Gun ownership rates have been declining
Mass shootings have been going up

Checkmate, Dustin.
That's sentra actually

I know

More Than Mortal · October 12, 2015, 09:02:46 PM

Quote from: Flee on October 12, 2015, 01:53:19 PM

Less than 3% to 5% of all US crimes involve people with mental illness, and the percentages of those crimes actually involving guns is lower than the national average of these crimes commited by people without a mental illness.

I call bullshit; something like half of the prisoners in the US (or globally) have ASPD.

Anonymous (User Deleted) · October 12, 2015, 10:07:53 PM

My own thoughts:

Uh, yeah, like, pumping more money into mental health isn't going to solve the problem that you can't force people to seek help, and that some folks like Seung-Hui Cho or James Holmes are loners who aren't going to have someone else report or refer them to mental health services. And they're sure as hell not going to think "hey, I'm not doing so well, I should seek help." If they cared about their own safety or that of others, or were able to do so, they would not have done what they did.

And making 'more beds' in psych wards is only going to put more pressure on an already overburdened health care industry (more spending isn't going to solve the problem of simply lacking enough manpower as is), and probably result in frivolous diagnoses, similarly to the prison industry and mass incarceration, because some places are only in it for the money, and more occupied beds = more profits.

Quote from: Meta as Fuck on October 12, 2015, 09:02:46 PM

Quote from: Flee on October 12, 2015, 01:53:19 PM
Less than 3% to 5% of all US crimes involve people with mental illness, and the percentages of those crimes actually involving guns is lower than the national average of these crimes commited by people without a mental illness.
I call bullshit; something like half of the prisoners in the US (or globally) have ASPD.

Erm, got a source for that? I'm inclined to believe that the US' ginormous incarceration rate might make that untrue, but don't quote me on that, figuratively speaking.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · October 12, 2015, 11:45:18 PM

Quote from: Kupo on October 12, 2015, 10:07:53 PM

My own thoughts:

Uh, yeah, like, pumping more money into mental health isn't going to solve the problem that you can't force people to seek help, and that some folks like Seung-Hui Cho or James Holmes are loners who aren't going to have someone else report or refer them to mental health services. And they're sure as hell not going to think "hey, I'm not doing so well, I should seek help." If they cared about their own safety or that of others, or were able to do so, they would not have done what they did.

And making 'more beds' in psych wards is only going to put more pressure on an already overburdened health care industry (more spending isn't going to solve the problem of simply lacking enough manpower as is), and probably result in frivolous diagnoses similar to the prison industry and mass incarceration, because some places are only in it for the money, and more occupied beds = more profits.

Quote from: Meta as Fuck on October 12, 2015, 09:02:46 PM
Quote from: Flee on October 12, 2015, 01:53:19 PM
Less than 3% to 5% of all US crimes involve people with mental illness, and the percentages of those crimes actually involving guns is lower than the national average of these crimes commited by people without a mental illness.
I call bullshit; something like half of the prisoners in the US (or globally) have ASPD.
Erm, got a source for that? I'm inclined to believe that the US' ginormous incarceration rate might make that untrue, but don't quote me on that, figuratively speaking.

Seena Fazel and John Danesh released a study in 2002 on it:

Quote

62 surveys from 12 countries included 22 790 prisoners (mean age 29 years, 18 530 [81%] men, 2568 [26%] of 9776 were violent offenders). 3·7% of men (95% CI 3·3–4·1) had psychotic illnesses, 10% (9–11) major depression, and 65% (61–68) a personality disorder, including 47% (46–48) with antisocial personality disorder. 4·0% of women (3·2–5·1) had psychotic illnesses, 12% (11–14) major depression, and 42% (38–45) a personality disorder, including 21% (19–23) with antisocial personality disorder. Although there was substantial heterogeneity among studies (especially for antisocial personality disorder), only a small proportion was explained by differences in prevalence rates between detainees and sentenced inmates. Prisoners were several times more likely to have psychosis and major depression, and about ten times more likely to have antisocial personality disorder, than the general population.

This is due in no small part to deinstitutionalization in the US; instead of ending up in a psych ward, most people with severe mental illness end up homeless or in jail.

Flee · October 13, 2015, 03:59:06 AM

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Flee · October 13, 2015, 04:44:34 AM

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Deleted · October 13, 2015, 11:33:57 AM

just gonna leave this here

PSU · October 13, 2015, 11:51:51 AM

Quote from: Chaos Metal Dragon on October 13, 2015, 11:33:57 AM

just gonna leave this here

I don't have to pay for other peoples guns.

Why should I have to pay for other peoples hospital bills if I haven't been in a hospital since my child was born?

Socialism is retarded.

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · October 15, 2015, 06:35:06 AM

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Mattie G Indahouse · October 17, 2015, 06:39:41 AM

The only gun problem America has is all the gun restrictions and not everybody being armed to the teeth.
-NRA

Luciana · October 17, 2015, 07:04:10 AM

Quote from: PSU on October 13, 2015, 11:51:51 AM

Quote from: Chaos Metal Dragon on October 13, 2015, 11:33:57 AM
just gonna leave this here

I don't have to pay for other peoples guns.

Why should I have to pay for other peoples hospital bills if I haven't been in a hospital since my child was born?

Socialism is retarded.

It's literally like car insurance you idiot. You have to pay a penalty if you don't have insurance for your car. It's a simple tax that provides a right for everyone. Stop buying into people who are behind literally the rest of the developed world.

eggsalad · October 17, 2015, 10:35:10 AM

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/3p2c33/man_accidentally_shoots_his_wife_after_punching/cw2uhiz

ΚΑΤΑΝΑΛΩΤΗΣ · October 17, 2015, 02:03:41 PM

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Septy · October 17, 2015, 03:19:03 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on October 17, 2015, 02:03:41 PM

Quote from: Luciana on October 17, 2015, 07:04:10 AM
Quote from: PSU on October 13, 2015, 11:51:51 AM
Quote from: Chaos Metal Dragon on October 13, 2015, 11:33:57 AM
just gonna leave this here

I don't have to pay for other peoples guns.

Why should I have to pay for other peoples hospital bills if I haven't been in a hospital since my child was born?

Socialism is retarded.
It's literally like car insurance you idiot. You have to pay a penalty if you don't have insurance for your car. It's a simple tax that provides a right for everyone. Stop buying into people who are behind literally the rest of the developed world.
"europeans are doing it, so we should too!"

"Other people have developed a successful system, so we should too!"

eggsalad · October 17, 2015, 03:36:14 PM

Quote from: Septy on October 17, 2015, 03:19:03 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on October 17, 2015, 02:03:41 PM
Quote from: Luciana on October 17, 2015, 07:04:10 AM
Quote from: PSU on October 13, 2015, 11:51:51 AM
Quote from: Chaos Metal Dragon on October 13, 2015, 11:33:57 AM
just gonna leave this here

I don't have to pay for other peoples guns.

Why should I have to pay for other peoples hospital bills if I haven't been in a hospital since my child was born?

Socialism is retarded.
It's literally like car insurance you idiot. You have to pay a penalty if you don't have insurance for your car. It's a simple tax that provides a right for everyone. Stop buying into people who are behind literally the rest of the developed world.
"europeans are doing it, so we should too!"
"Other people have developed a successful system, so we should too!"

To be fair America has some distinct problems from Europe, specifically gang culture and the criminality the drug war has produced.

Septy · October 17, 2015, 03:37:26 PM

Quote from: eggsalad on October 17, 2015, 03:36:14 PM

Quote from: Septy on October 17, 2015, 03:19:03 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on October 17, 2015, 02:03:41 PM
Quote from: Luciana on October 17, 2015, 07:04:10 AM
Quote from: PSU on October 13, 2015, 11:51:51 AM
Quote from: Chaos Metal Dragon on October 13, 2015, 11:33:57 AM
just gonna leave this here

I don't have to pay for other peoples guns.

Why should I have to pay for other peoples hospital bills if I haven't been in a hospital since my child was born?

Socialism is retarded.
It's literally like car insurance you idiot. You have to pay a penalty if you don't have insurance for your car. It's a simple tax that provides a right for everyone. Stop buying into people who are behind literally the rest of the developed world.
"europeans are doing it, so we should too!"
"Other people have developed a successful system, so we should too!"
To be fair America has some distinct problems from Europe, specifically gang culture and the criminality the drug war has produced.

And this has nothing to do with implementing universal healthcare

eggsalad · October 17, 2015, 03:38:43 PM

Quote from: Septy on October 17, 2015, 03:37:26 PM

Quote from: eggsalad on October 17, 2015, 03:36:14 PM
Quote from: Septy on October 17, 2015, 03:19:03 PM
Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on October 17, 2015, 02:03:41 PM
Quote from: Luciana on October 17, 2015, 07:04:10 AM
Quote from: PSU on October 13, 2015, 11:51:51 AM
Quote from: Chaos Metal Dragon on October 13, 2015, 11:33:57 AM
just gonna leave this here

I don't have to pay for other peoples guns.

Why should I have to pay for other peoples hospital bills if I haven't been in a hospital since my child was born?

Socialism is retarded.
It's literally like car insurance you idiot. You have to pay a penalty if you don't have insurance for your car. It's a simple tax that provides a right for everyone. Stop buying into people who are behind literally the rest of the developed world.
"europeans are doing it, so we should too!"
"Other people have developed a successful system, so we should too!"
To be fair America has some distinct problems from Europe, specifically gang culture and the criminality the drug war has produced.
And this has nothing to do with implementing universal healthcare

was thinking guns mabad

DAS B00T x2 · October 17, 2015, 04:44:58 PM

Quote from: Septy on October 17, 2015, 03:19:03 PM

Quote from: HEAT SEEKING GHOST OF SEX on October 17, 2015, 02:03:41 PM
Quote from: Luciana on October 17, 2015, 07:04:10 AM
Quote from: PSU on October 13, 2015, 11:51:51 AM
Quote from: Chaos Metal Dragon on October 13, 2015, 11:33:57 AM
just gonna leave this here

I don't have to pay for other peoples guns.

Why should I have to pay for other peoples hospital bills if I haven't been in a hospital since my child was born?

Socialism is retarded.
It's literally like car insurance you idiot. You have to pay a penalty if you don't have insurance for your car. It's a simple tax that provides a right for everyone. Stop buying into people who are behind literally the rest of the developed world.
"europeans are doing it, so we should too!"
"Other people have developed a successful system, so we should too!"

The NHS is only successful in displaying its own inefficiency.

BrenMan 94 · October 17, 2015, 06:45:09 PM

Quote from: Chaos Metal Dragon on October 13, 2015, 11:33:57 AM

just gonna leave this here

If healthcare is a right and every doctor were to quit, would they be forced to work and help patients? Otherwise, healthcare isn't really a right, just a privilege.