What is your definition of harassment?

Not chair, dingo, or retard for one.

If I went to every one of your posts calling you a chair I'd be annoying at most, and people would quickly get tired of me and give me flak for it.

Clearly nigger and faggot don't qualify either under the current set up.

But I'm seeing your larger point of if its a constant malicious thing then it crosses a line. Which again I agree with and is covered under all three systems. You seem to use the definition of malicious too cavalierly for me though. Chair is ridiculous, and I hope I've made that point.

There's definitely a grey area there though, and that's probably a conversation that's constantly going on with society as a whole. People are going to be offended by things that others are not. So where do you draw the line? My vote is far away from chair and dingo.

I'm glad you clarified this in particular, because earlier, it seemed to me that you were trying to make an arbitrary distinction between traditionally offensive words and words that you'd be hard-pressed to find any malicious context for. Like, "here is a list of words that are considered offensive, and aren't okay to harass people with, and here's a list of words you are allowed to harass people with, because who could possibly be offended by these words?" I'm glad that's not what you're saying.

When you ask me where I draw the line--I draw it the same place you do. I just make it clear that anything is possible. I'm not saying that the idea of "chair" being used as an insult isn't ridiculous--but it's possible.

The easiest scenario that I could contrive would be that... Maybe someone might have had a traumatic experience with a chair at some point in their life. Is that silly? Yeah. Is that realistic? Not really. Is it within the realm of possibility? Yes. Should you harass that person by calling them a chair over and over? Probably not.

That's all I'm saying.

I get ya. I don't think we are as far apart as I originally thought.

I can't really define harassment just clear cut like that. It'd have to be on a case by case basis. If there's someone who refuses to use proper pronouns for people do we ban them? No I don't think so. Now if they're going around and derailing every thread following people then yeah that's worthy of warning or higher.

For stuff like dingo though I'd just say the only reason that person is getting called dingo is for how they're reacting to it. Its a ridiculous thing to get offended by. So the dogpiling on that is more of a criticism on that persons tolerance levels, and the fact that for a while we were editing it out of posts. That got me to join in. Same with retard. If someone consistently says stupid stuff then people should be allowed to casually call them on it. Harassment =/= criticism.

There's a certain point there where people need to look inward and ask if maybe its not everyone else and if its something they are doing. Rather then just saying 'well this hurts my feelings'. But there are definitely cases of going over the line and needing to be reigned in. Especially if you're looking to monetize the site.

And if someone got upset over being called a chair I think they have bigger problems in life. They should probably recognize that they are putting a bit too much stock in their feelings. No one has a right to never be offended.



But again. I think we agree enough for the most part. All three rule sets cover this enough for most people's standards. My original post was more about funposting and locked threads anyways. (Which I'm not looking to jump into another giant debate on. I gots things I need to do today)

We'll have the poll and we'll stay hybrid, and neither of us will be happy. So there's that to look forward to.

The problem is that when we moderate harassment like this, on a case by case basis, it can be seen as "giving special treatment" or even "singling someone out." This is the whole problem that I have wih non-malicious insults: it allows the jerks to hide behind that "non-harassing" insult clause in the rules. It tends to make moderation a political minefield sometimes.

That's understandable, but I think moderation is going to be a political minefield no matter what you do. Its just the social dynamic aspect of forums and moderating speech.

As far as the giving favor stuff there are times where that's a legitimate call out, and times where its not. If I decide I don't want to be called a platypus are the ninjas gonna start editing that out of peoples posts? The question is how many steps does it take for all of it to fall apart into a ridiculous mess. If the answer is less than two its probably not a good moderation choice.

Again no matter what you do moderation is going to be a case by case basis. Ninjas are going to do stuff differently then other ninjas no matter how much you all sit down and talk it out. When its late at night and you're the one guy online its going to be your call.

There's a line there where you have to say well these are the rules and if you're actually harassing someone you going to run into problems. If you don't like that too bad. That's not favoritism or special treatment. At the same time trying to moderate jerkish behavior out the the flood seems like a recipe for disaster to me. No matter where you move the line people are going to be hiding within the rules. But you can't warn people for not breaking the rules. That's only going to be countered by the social dynamic, and we'll all determine what's acceptable and what's not naturally.

Edit: What I'm saying is jerkish behavior is open to interpretation. Do Deci, Elegiac, or Kinder think a lot of people here are jerks? Ye. Do a lot of people think they tend to be sperglords? Ye. Who's right? Well both depending on what's being said. Sometimes people bring the drama on themselves, and sometimes people cross the line with dogpiling.

That's what I mean by a case-by-case basis. You can't just say 'Rule 5: don't be a jerk to anyone ever', and expect it to cover everything. Just doesn't work in practice.

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on July 14, 2015, 07:52:59 AM

Quote from: Naoto on July 14, 2015, 07:33:24 AM

With the system we have now people are getting warnings for calling others retard.

I don't think they're getting warned for calling somebody it once they're most likely got warned for doing it more than once. If you seen that thread of Lemons he posted here about he makes it seem like he's some innocent user getting mod biases which isn't the case. He called me a retard more than once and I think he does the same to Deci. After the first few times when you know the person isn't joking it ends up being harassment which is against the rules. Can you honestly say that this post of his is more of a joke than it being harassment? It's easy to see that it's more of an insult than a joke.

Yeah that's not harassment.

How isn't it? It's not the first time he has done it and the posts wasn't setup to be funny it was setup to be insulting.

Quote from: TBlocks on July 12, 2015, 12:35:02 PM

Quote from: Le Mon man on July 12, 2015, 12:19:34 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on July 12, 2015, 12:05:16 PM

Quote from: Le Mon man on July 12, 2015, 06:31:07 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on July 12, 2015, 02:14:10 AM

should be strict

no

yeah, though

i mean it really is "fine" the way it is (some consistent moderation would be nice), but if it changes at all, it should tend towards more strict

hugbox lover pls go and stay go

You do realize it's possible to have stricter rules without making it a hugbox, right?

stricter rules would kill this place even more because everyone would either leave because it's boring, or be banned because they broke the new hugbox rules.

Consistency of the current system is the best way.

If we want more new people, we've gotta chill out on some things

Quote from: BerzerkCommando on July 14, 2015, 08:27:56 PM

How isn't it? It's not the first time he has done it and the posts wasn't setup to be funny it was setup to be insulting.

Quote from: Naoto on July 14, 2015, 10:23:45 AM

For stuff like dingo though I'd just say the only reason that person is getting called dingo is for how they're reacting to it. Its a ridiculous thing to get offended by. So the dogpiling on that is more of a criticism on that persons tolerance levels, and the fact that for a while we were editing it out of posts. That got me to join in. Same with retard. If someone consistently says stupid stuff then people should be allowed to casually call them on it. Harassment =/= criticism.

There's a certain point there where people need to look inward and ask if maybe its not everyone else and if its something they are doing. Rather then just saying 'well this hurts my feelings'. But there are definitely cases of going over the line and needing to be reigned in.

Just because he's being insulting doesn't make it harassment. Is he constantly pming you? Is he following around to every thread? Or did he just insult you a couple times? Are we all now free from insult?

When an obvious insult begins to "follow" members into other threads is when I think a ninja should step in. I mean even if the person is trying to ignore the insulter it is obvious harassment at that point. I know ninjas can't spot that shit all the time and that's when it comes down to the individual being harassed and to report it even if it is a dumb insult such as "chair", it obviously bothers the member, and hopefully they have at least asked the person to stop, but sometimes it just doesn't work that way. In the few months I have been here I have seen major harassment issues handled terribly, and it's not right. I understand that sometimes it just seems like whining, but in my eyes letting people get away with harassment, or publicly bashing the obvious victim only feeds the desire to target more members and attempt to get a rise out of them, because it shows that staff will let it slide as long as they are sneaky about it. There is no way in hell I want sep7agon to become a hugbox. The fact that it's so lax here and how members interact with one another is the reason I started posting and why I am still here. However. There definitely needs to be more investigation on harassment or at least a clearer definition of what "harassment" is not allowed updates within the rules.

Archive killed off it's older userbase by turning into a hugbox.

Please don't do that here. I need somewhere to go to call people retards <3

lax moderation is a terrible idea and the only people who want it are shitposters/chanfags

its fine as it is

this

too strict would be the equivalent of having a broom up  your arse, and too lax would be a shitposters wet dream.

hybrid is best

Quote from: Azumarill on July 23, 2015, 04:45:21 PM

lax moderation is a terrible idea and the only people who want it are shitposters/chanfags

I typed like three paragraphs before realizing you didn't say 'tax'.

LOL