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Messages - challengerX
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36691
« on: December 09, 2014, 12:08:41 PM »
Suppression of fascism is not suppression of ideas.
I'd love to know what makes you think fascism isn't composed of ideas.
You're taking what I said out of context. I said I'm not for suppression of ideas, I'm for the suppression of Mein Kampf and by extension all books promoting or glamorizing Nazi ideology.
So you're not for suppression of ideas, you're just for suppression of ideas.
If you think Nazi ideology is important and valuable then there's nothing I can say to you about this.
I wouldn't call it valuable in and of itself, but understanding this ideology, and it's causes and implications, is pretty important if we want to prevent it's resurgence.
When you suppress these ideologies, you radicalize the people that hold them. They'll believe they are being oppressed for their deeply held beliefs. And they'll be right. They can still spread it to others, but they'll be more likely to engage in violent acts.
Not to mention suppression of ideologies is a pretty huge violation of democratic principles.
If you call banning Mein Kampf a "suppression of ideologies" you're just being dumb.
Nobody will be more likely to do anything if the book is banned. It puts us on the path to stop treating the Nazis the way we do and get them off this pedestal they're on.
I can't think of any place where Nazis are put on pedestals. I'd say Nazism is probably the most widely hated thing in human history. Calling someone a Nazi or fascist is the most powerful slur in modern politics. People call the UKIP Nazis, for example, demonstrating a clear misunderstanding of the ideology. If a politician in Germany is accused of Nazism, that's it for his career. Nazis are our boogiemen, the default evil. The word Nazi doesn't even mean National Socialist anymore, it's the new way to call someone an asshole.
I don't know what alternate universe you're living in where Nazism poses a genuine threat to the principles of democracy, but it's not the one the rest of us are in.
The greatest threat to Democracy in the real world comes from within, from those who advocate doing extremely un-democratic things in the name of democracy.
The majority of German politicians are closet Nazis. The majority of governments in Europe are fascist.
Nazis are on an extremely high pedestal. People think of Hitler as a great man, as the Nazis being incredibly organized, efficient, and revering their clothing, their salutes, their slogans. It's an unspoken truth nobody likes to admit, proven here by all of you pretending it doesn't exist. True, you guys don't revere Nazis. But I can think of quite a few people on this site alone that do.
Oh ok you're just trolling
Either make a rebuttal or just don't reply at all. Go ahead and drop the discussion if you want, but don't start acting stupid.
If you think people genuinely revere Nazis, there's something wrong with you.
Maybe you do, and you're projecting your insecurity onto others.
But nobody who is capable of reading Mein Kampf is going to get into that ideology.
Kiyo, Meta, Slash, Berzerk Commando, Kernel Kraut, Kinder, and a few others whose usernames I can't remember. There's nothing wrong with me. If you want to deny Europe isn't being controlled by right wing fascist governments, then LOL. I live here dude, I can see what's going on better than you reading a CNN article.
36692
« on: December 09, 2014, 12:02:19 PM »
I don't know, Google em. Maybe the police can help or the post office.
36693
« on: December 09, 2014, 11:59:52 AM »
You're not even canon.
36694
« on: December 09, 2014, 11:57:27 AM »
Suppression of fascism is not suppression of ideas.
I'd love to know what makes you think fascism isn't composed of ideas.
You're taking what I said out of context. I said I'm not for suppression of ideas, I'm for the suppression of Mein Kampf and by extension all books promoting or glamorizing Nazi ideology.
So you're not for suppression of ideas, you're just for suppression of ideas.
If you think Nazi ideology is important and valuable then there's nothing I can say to you about this.
I wouldn't call it valuable in and of itself, but understanding this ideology, and it's causes and implications, is pretty important if we want to prevent it's resurgence.
When you suppress these ideologies, you radicalize the people that hold them. They'll believe they are being oppressed for their deeply held beliefs. And they'll be right. They can still spread it to others, but they'll be more likely to engage in violent acts.
Not to mention suppression of ideologies is a pretty huge violation of democratic principles.
If you call banning Mein Kampf a "suppression of ideologies" you're just being dumb.
Nobody will be more likely to do anything if the book is banned. It puts us on the path to stop treating the Nazis the way we do and get them off this pedestal they're on.
I can't think of any place where Nazis are put on pedestals. I'd say Nazism is probably the most widely hated thing in human history. Calling someone a Nazi or fascist is the most powerful slur in modern politics. People call the UKIP Nazis, for example, demonstrating a clear misunderstanding of the ideology. If a politician in Germany is accused of Nazism, that's it for his career. Nazis are our boogiemen, the default evil. The word Nazi doesn't even mean National Socialist anymore, it's the new way to call someone an asshole.
I don't know what alternate universe you're living in where Nazism poses a genuine threat to the principles of democracy, but it's not the one the rest of us are in.
The greatest threat to Democracy in the real world comes from within, from those who advocate doing extremely un-democratic things in the name of democracy.
The majority of German politicians are closet Nazis. The majority of governments in Europe are fascist.
Nazis are on an extremely high pedestal. People think of Hitler as a great man, as the Nazis being incredibly organized, efficient, and revering their clothing, their salutes, their slogans. It's an unspoken truth nobody likes to admit, proven here by all of you pretending it doesn't exist. True, you guys don't revere Nazis. But I can think of quite a few people on this site alone that do.
Oh ok you're just trolling
Either make a rebuttal or just don't reply at all. Go ahead and drop the discussion if you want, but don't start acting stupid.
36695
« on: December 09, 2014, 11:56:11 AM »
. People think of Hitler as a great man, as the Nazis being incredibly organized, efficient, and revering their clothing, their salutes, their slogans. It's an unspoken truth nobody likes to admit, proven. True, you guys don't revere Nazis. But I can think of quite a few people on this site alone that do.
Name one that isn't Kiyo or 2013 Meta.
I'm not going to point fingers in the Serious forum.
36696
« on: December 09, 2014, 11:55:30 AM »
I'm advocating banning Mein Kampf. Thank you for repeating what I already know.
If you have a problem with that, you're being overly liberal and politically correct. That's pretty rich coming from the guy advocating the censorship something because it doesn't align with his beliefs.
I'm not trying to set up anything, what I'm saying is that there's no positive to allow people to read the book. Then tell people that and let them find out for themselves.
It doesn't align with any free man's beliefs. In fact, it aggressively opposes them.
Find out what? That genocide is bad? We already know this and it continues to happen across the world, and we do nothing to stop it. Seriously, this is an incredibly weak argument you're making.
How is it a weak argument? You're the one trying to make the establishment that Mein Kampf is the source of all the evil in the world, not me.
Not at all. I'm saying there are far more negative than there are positives. That's it.
36697
« on: December 09, 2014, 11:51:29 AM »
What a load of fucking bullshit. They all knew everything from the beginning.
36698
« on: December 09, 2014, 11:35:23 AM »
Suppression of fascism is not suppression of ideas.
I'd love to know what makes you think fascism isn't composed of ideas.
You're taking what I said out of context. I said I'm not for suppression of ideas, I'm for the suppression of Mein Kampf and by extension all books promoting or glamorizing Nazi ideology.
So you're not for suppression of ideas, you're just for suppression of ideas.
If you think Nazi ideology is important and valuable then there's nothing I can say to you about this.
I wouldn't call it valuable in and of itself, but understanding this ideology, and it's causes and implications, is pretty important if we want to prevent it's resurgence.
When you suppress these ideologies, you radicalize the people that hold them. They'll believe they are being oppressed for their deeply held beliefs. And they'll be right. They can still spread it to others, but they'll be more likely to engage in violent acts.
Not to mention suppression of ideologies is a pretty huge violation of democratic principles.
If you call banning Mein Kampf a "suppression of ideologies" you're just being dumb.
Nobody will be more likely to do anything if the book is banned. It puts us on the path to stop treating the Nazis the way we do and get them off this pedestal they're on.
I can't think of any place where Nazis are put on pedestals. I'd say Nazism is probably the most widely hated thing in human history. Calling someone a Nazi or fascist is the most powerful slur in modern politics. People call the UKIP Nazis, for example, demonstrating a clear misunderstanding of the ideology. If a politician in Germany is accused of Nazism, that's it for his career. Nazis are our boogiemen, the default evil. The word Nazi doesn't even mean National Socialist anymore, it's the new way to call someone an asshole.
I don't know what alternate universe you're living in where Nazism poses a genuine threat to the principles of democracy, but it's not the one the rest of us are in.
The greatest threat to Democracy in the real world comes from within, from those who advocate doing extremely un-democratic things in the name of democracy.
The majority of German politicians are closet Nazis. The majority of governments in Europe are fascist. Nazis are on an extremely high pedestal. People think of Hitler as a great man, as the Nazis being incredibly organized, efficient, and revering their clothing, their salutes, their slogans. It's an unspoken truth nobody likes to admit, proven here by all of you pretending it doesn't exist. True, you guys don't revere Nazis. But I can think of quite a few people on this site alone that do.
36699
« on: December 09, 2014, 11:32:17 AM »
I'm advocating banning Mein Kampf. Thank you for repeating what I already know.
If you have a problem with that, you're being overly liberal and politically correct. That's pretty rich coming from the guy advocating the censorship something because it doesn't align with his beliefs.
I'm not trying to set up anything, what I'm saying is that there's no positive to allow people to read the book. Then tell people that and let them find out for themselves.
It doesn't align with any free man's beliefs. In fact, it aggressively opposes them. Find out what? That genocide is bad? We already know this and it continues to happen across the world, and we do nothing to stop it. Seriously, this is an incredibly weak argument you're making.
36700
« on: December 09, 2014, 11:30:03 AM »
If you call banning Mein Kampf a "suppression of ideologies" you're just being dumb. Fascism is an ideology. You can sugar coat it and twist it to suit your own narrative all you like, but objectively, it is an ideology. There's no two ways about it.
I'd really love to hear your criteria for what is and isn't an ideology without using subjectivity.
Nobody will be more likely to do anything if the book is banned. Yeah, because fascism and totalitarianism totally never existed before Hitler put pen to paper.
Of course it's an ideology. I never said it wasn't, I said it isn't a suppression of ideologie s. It's a suppression of Hitler and his bullshit ramblings, so by extension the Nazi ideology. When did I say that? That's my entire point, that fascism and totalitarianism has existed before and will unfortunately exist long after the Nazis, despite Mein Kampf being there to remind us "NEVER AGAIN". There is no positive to allow this book to circulate. And that is what you have failed to prove. Your argument is that by allowing people to read his book, we won't repeat his atrocities. But we have and are, so your point is moot.
36701
« on: December 09, 2014, 10:32:28 AM »
Suppression of fascism is not suppression of ideas.
I'd love to know what makes you think fascism isn't composed of ideas.
You're taking what I said out of context. I said I'm not for suppression of ideas, I'm for the suppression of Mein Kampf and by extension all books promoting or glamorizing Nazi ideology.
So you're not for suppression of ideas, you're just for suppression of ideas.
If you think Nazi ideology is important and valuable then there's nothing I can say to you about this.
I wouldn't call it valuable in and of itself, but understanding this ideology, and it's causes and implications, is pretty important if we want to prevent it's resurgence.
When you suppress these ideologies, you radicalize the people that hold them. They'll believe they are being oppressed for their deeply held beliefs. And they'll be right. They can still spread it to others, but they'll be more likely to engage in violent acts.
Not to mention suppression of ideologies is a pretty huge violation of democratic principles.
If you call banning Mein Kampf a "suppression of ideologies" you're just being dumb. Nobody will be more likely to do anything if the book is banned. It puts us on the path to stop treating the Nazis the way we do and get them off this pedestal they're on.
36702
« on: December 09, 2014, 10:30:32 AM »
I already explained why books carry more weight with somebody than a blog post does. You and me, and many other people see Mein Kampf for what it is. An ignorant and prejudiced person reads a book written by Hitler which reads a lot more eloquent than a Neo Nazi website, and they revere the book. There are fucking idiots in this world, and more times than not they're prejudiced and eat up anything that makes them feel better about themselves and blames everybody else. If you're going to tell me people don't worship books when we have holy texts people base their life on, you're wrong. Yes, they're idiots, we've established that. I don't see how a couple of troglodytes lacking in critical thinking warrants the censorship of one book though. There's plenty of other books that advocate worse shit than Mein Kampf you know, are you going to ban those too?
There's nothing fascistic about not wanting fascism (specifically Nazi ideogoly) in your society, No, but silencing the dissenting point of view because of its putridity is like the cornerstone of fascism. I really don't know why you don't seem to understand this basic concept, because I know you're smarter than this.
and no amount of comparisons and analogies will change that. It's an evil book written by an evil man and it has absolutely no place in this world. That really isn't up for you to decide.
And there you have it. Idiots getting ideas from an objectively evil book.
I don't advocate banning books, but I do for Mein Kampf. I'm tired of this reverence the Nazis get and the idolization of Hitler. It's disgusting and we need to start getting rid of that as quickly as possible. The TV too is FULL of Nazi documentaries.
It's about taking the "glamor" away from the Nazis. To stop installing it into people's minds that they were some of the worst around when far worse things have happened with far more people killed.
You guys can say reading it will stop this from happening again. It's happening now, and it just happened in Iraq with America's invasions. They set up concentration camps in Iraq, and did Mein Kampf come to the rescue? Nope. Meanwhile back home people are jacking off to the book saying "can't ban it or we'll never learn from our mistakes lol". What mistakes? I've never committed genocide. People are going to commit genocide all they want, a book promoting it isn't going to make them think "Huh. Maybe I shouldn't wipe out the Kurds". They're gonna do it anyway.
There is no good reason to allow this book to be legal. Because we're still doing the shit we were doing back then and a thousand years before then. Stories of how horrible slavery is hasn't stopped slavery throughout the world. If books had the power to promote something and at the same time make people view it as disgusting, we'd be living in a far better world.
If you're trying to establish a causal link between these strings of events and Mein Kampf, I really don't know what to say to you. That's pretty laughable.
And like I said, there's far worse shit than Mein Kampf out there. If you're going to be a politically correct nanny state advocate, than at least be a consistent one.
I'm advocating banning Mein Kampf. If you have a problem with that, you're being overly liberal and politically correct. I'm not trying to set up anything, what I'm saying is that there's no positive to allow people to read the book.
36703
« on: December 09, 2014, 09:45:33 AM »
Maybe I might sound racist, but most of the inmates appear to be of color... What's going on with that?
Majority of blacks and Mexicans are poor. They commit crimes to make money because there aren't any jobs and the cost of living is really high, and then there's gangs added into the mix which just makes things worse. And some jails just have higher concentrations of certain people.
36704
« on: December 09, 2014, 09:16:13 AM »
I'm just going to jump into this conversation and say The Legend of Korra doesn't have the same charm as TLA and all the characters having passed away is just depressing.
Come at me.
36705
« on: December 09, 2014, 09:02:25 AM »
They're people. Rehabilitation is far better than going to a shithole then coming out and living the same lifestyle.
36706
« on: December 09, 2014, 08:07:08 AM »
Wow.
36707
« on: December 09, 2014, 07:40:48 AM »
Meta should not be made a monitor. His ego is large enough as it is.
If you think Meta is the one with the ego then you clearly don't use this site that often. Not that he doesn't have an ego, he does, but he earned it through his intellectualism that keeps the serious forum from becoming a cesspit of challengerx and door retardation spam and also generally just making us all more intelligent. Now there are users with much larger egos who've gained it literally by shitposting, spamming, and with the sole purpose to get their post count up.
Sorry if this post is written horribly, I just woke up, but you get my point.
Holy shit you're obsessed with me. Get a grip.
36708
« on: December 09, 2014, 07:22:00 AM »
Suppression of fascism is not suppression of ideas.
I'd love to know what makes you think fascism isn't composed of ideas.
You're taking what I said out of context. I said I'm not for suppression of ideas, I'm for the suppression of Mein Kampf and by extension all books promoting or glamorizing Nazi ideology.
So you're not for suppression of ideas, you're just for suppression of ideas.
If you think Nazi ideology is important and valuable then there's nothing I can say to you about this.
36709
« on: December 09, 2014, 05:56:12 AM »
It's just you and me. 
36710
« on: December 09, 2014, 05:26:28 AM »
36711
« on: December 09, 2014, 04:48:40 AM »
why do you type like this
is it because your mom dropped you on your head
and you did meth at school instead of schoolwork
or are you just fucking retarded
36712
« on: December 09, 2014, 03:47:47 AM »
I already explained why books carry more weight with somebody than a blog post does. You and me, and many other people see Mein Kampf for what it is. An ignorant and prejudiced person reads a book written by Hitler which reads a lot more eloquent than a Neo Nazi website, and they revere the book. There are fucking idiots in this world, and more times than not they're prejudiced and eat up anything that makes them feel better about themselves and blames everybody else. If you're going to tell me people don't worship books when we have holy texts people base their life on, you're wrong. Yes, they're idiots, we've established that. I don't see how a couple of troglodytes lacking in critical thinking warrants the censorship of one book though. There's plenty of other books that advocate worse shit than Mein Kampf you know, are you going to ban those too?
There's nothing fascistic about not wanting fascism (specifically Nazi ideogoly) in your society, No, but silencing the dissenting point of view because of its putridity is like the cornerstone of fascism. I really don't know why you don't seem to understand this basic concept, because I know you're smarter than this.
and no amount of comparisons and analogies will change that. It's an evil book written by an evil man and it has absolutely no place in this world. That really isn't up for you to decide.
And there you have it. Idiots getting ideas from an objectively evil book. I don't advocate banning books, but I do for Mein Kampf. I'm tired of this reverence the Nazis get and the idolization of Hitler. It's disgusting and we need to start getting rid of that as quickly as possible. The TV too is FULL of Nazi documentaries. It's about taking the "glamor" away from the Nazis. To stop installing it into people's minds that they were some of the worst around when far worse things have happened with far more people killed. You guys can say reading it will stop this from happening again. It's happening now, and it just happened in Iraq with America's invasions. They set up concentration camps in Iraq, and did Mein Kampf come to the rescue? Nope. Meanwhile back home people are jacking off to the book saying "can't ban it or we'll never learn from our mistakes lol". What mistakes? I've never committed genocide. People are going to commit genocide all they want, a book promoting it isn't going to make them think "Huh. Maybe I shouldn't wipe out the Kurds". They're gonna do it anyway. There is no good reason to allow this book to be legal. Because we're still doing the shit we were doing back then and a thousand years before then. Stories of how horrible slavery is hasn't stopped slavery throughout the world. If books had the power to promote something and at the same time make people view it as disgusting, we'd be living in a far better world.
36713
« on: December 09, 2014, 03:38:39 AM »
That's where you're wrong. You're free from fascism. That shit has no place in a civilized society that values equality and democracy.
Clearly not, if one book is all it takes for your culture to descend into fascism, so much so that it must be banned. If it's that easy, I think this society's values lie elsewhere.
In fact, I would call the suppression of ideas very un-democratic.
Don't twist things.
Suppression of fascism is not suppression of ideas. And there's no slippery slope effect either. Fascism is a very clear and serious danger to democracy and freedom. If censoring a book written by a madman that promotes fascism is fascism to you, then you're living in some sort of topsy turvy world.
It might try to promote fascism, but censoring it and suppressing the book won't stop idiots from getting their hands on it. It's better to allow that piece of garbage to exist, because it genuinely is as hard to read as a brick and anyone trying to base their belief system off it would seriously struggle to make heads or tails of it.
Neo-Nazi idiots just parrot the shit that their friends and fathers parroted to them, actually trying to extract sense from mein kampf is pretty futile and I would say it's beyond the skill of the average skinhead.
In my opinion, it's better to let people see the evils of the ideas contained in that book for themselves than to tell them it's bad and ban it outright.
The people reading it won't see it as evil.
If you've read about what the Nazis have done and you're interested enough to read the book of psycho numero uno himself, chances are you think they had some good ideas.
Well, I've read it. Or most of it anyway, I got sick of reading a brick and gave up.
Despite my earlier half joke, it is an evil book. It's filled with the kind of shit you see on stormfront nowadays but written in the context of 80-90 years ago.
I've read quite a lot about what the nazis did, if there was an SS officer in the same room as me and I had a gun - I'd shoot the bastard in cold blood.
I was interested to get a look at the psychology behind the lunatic responsible for all that shit, not because I thought that the Nazis needed to kill off some more jews and cripples.
You have to learn from history to avoid the same mistakes being repeated, the problem with stamping out the remainder of the problem is it's harder to study it in the future and make sure it never happens again.
Then read a history book.
Erase it from your mind, don't promote it, don't waste time on it. It's wrong, it's stupid, and it's against everything humanity is supposed to be.
Besides, there's genocide going on right now. There's governments brainwashing and controlling their citizens right now. That book not being banned hasn't stopped anything fm from being repeated.
I have read many.
I in no way promote it, whenever it's brought up I say how shite the book is let alone the abhorrent content. Understanding what you are supposed to watch for in others is important, sure you can try and leave it all up to intuition but there isn't anything wrong with understanding the mind (or trying to) of people who think like that. Finding out what makes them tick is important as it helps you prevent others from falling into the same pitfalls.
And the genocides currently being carried out are not over things mentioned in mein kampf or any other nazi literature. It's over ethnic divisions and power struggles in Africa and the middle east. The Hutus in Rwanda weren't Neo-Nazis, they just wanted to butcher the Tutsis.
Right, and as long we have history books no Naziesque regime will ever pop up again.
But the point is there's nothing to gain by allowing people to read this book that can't be gained by reading a history book.
Except history books inevitably abridge and abbreviate, put the author's spin on things and paint a narrative. Even if the original source material is disgusting, shielding people from it and buffing over the stain on humanity's existence won't work well in the long run.
It's better to remember the horrors and to study the events that led to them occurring and then to remember how we shoved that shit back up the asshole of the bastards who dreamt it up in the first place <______<
Mein Kampf doesn't really inform anybody though, it's just the ramblings of Hitler and his bullshit ideology.
Most history books do a good jobs at being unbiased.
That would depend on how you approach the book, at face value that is all it is. It's a book filled with inane rants about how the jews cockblocked him from art school and are stealing petrol from his car and turning into woodlice to crawl under the furniture.
When viewing the wider picture, the fact that the book is a load of shit serves a purpose. To show people that the ideology behind the nazis was infact just a crock of shit dreamt up by some syphilitic wanker to shift the blame from everything onto a scapegoat. It takes the 'mystery' away from it, to find out that the great orator himself was just that. Full of hot wind and little else.
Some do, some don't. I'm not really happy with the general standard of them though and over-reliance on secondhand and thirdhand material leads to a game of chinese whispers. I'd rather the original, abhorrent message was preserved for all to see and decry, than a watered down version was spoonfed to everyone.
Anybody with half a brain can tell the Jews were a scapegoat. We don't need this book to know that.
Reading a history book and seeing everything that happened in a few pages is what kills the mysticism. It was just another phase in humanity where some idiots tried to take over the world and failed. That's it. Everything else is irrelevant and their propaganda is irrelevant.
I think this will be the impasse then, for the general public sure. For those who take on the responsibility of ensuring it doesn't happen again, I think it's more important that they have access to it.
For example, studying the propaganda of goebbels to learn just what it was that made his lies convincing to the proles. Then being able to use that information to guard against a government feeding the same propaganda in a different form to it's citizens.
As easy as it is to hold them in contempt, to underestimate the danger they posed and to assume it could be headed off again with nothing but common sense is the mindset that would lead to it happening again. Like with the milgram experiments, people thought that only a couple in every thousand would actually go all the way and it was actually a minority that didn't 'kill' the other participant.
They might have been scum, but they weren't stupid >.>
You bring up a good point - but it's a double edged sword. Hitler read about the Armenian genocide and that's where he got his ideas from. You people seriously underestimate the power of books. The power they have to teach somebody how to replicate something. Because you can sit there and say "Well now I can see the fascists coming. I've read up on the Nazis and I know their tactics." The fascists of today aren't doing what the Nazis did. While you're all ready for the return of a Nazi regime, we're living under fascists right now. We're fucking voting for them. Meta, for all his talk and ideals, votes conservative because he's fallen for the trick that they run the economy better. Their propaganda is different, and those of us smart enough to see them for what they are don't need to read Mein Kampf to know that. Because their game now is to keep us poor, and then to tell us they can fix it and freedom be damned. It's a lot more subtle.
36714
« on: December 09, 2014, 03:30:46 AM »
Suppression of fascism is not suppression of ideas.
I'd love to know what makes you think fascism isn't composed of ideas.
You're taking what I said out of context. I said I'm not for suppression of ideas, I'm for the suppression of Mein Kampf and by extension all books promoting or glamorizing Nazi ideology.
36715
« on: December 09, 2014, 03:28:56 AM »
Don't patronize me. I did nothing of the sort. I apologize if you felt that way.
I'm discussing this with you because you all keep replying. But I'm never going to change my mind on this. That's great, because neither am I.
Somehow I get the feeling that you're the one that will keep replying until he gets the last word, not me.
The book should be banned and destroyed. Then by definition, you are a fascist.
If you're seriously going to sit there and say a book doesn't carry more weight than a blog or post on a forum, LOL. That's great, but do you have actual argumentation to explain your point on why it carries more weight instead of being smarmy and condescending?
Like I said, we read books and view them as official sources of information from a young age. And we as individuals, can agree or disagree with the rhetoric being espoused. That's the beauty about not banning books. You can discover the knowledge for yourself and decide whether it's something you agree with or something you think is totally bullshit. The general consensus is that Mein Kampf is a piece of shit anyway, both in prose and the ideas being conveyed.
That means somebody will take Mein Kampf far more seriously than a blog post. You know, there's an extremist feminist on the internet that advocates for the mass sterilization and genital mutilation of men, but I take her about as seriously as I take Mein Kampf, which isn't very much.
Exactly, the eloquence. The second phrase is far more likely to get you thinking than the first one Not really. The ideas are still there, the only difference being the sophistication of the writing style. You'd have to be a fucking idiot to be won over by ideas on the basis of whether it sounds pretty or not.
And my point is I'm not for censorship in general. I just don't think Mein Kampf should be legal to buy. Hitler shouldn't be idolized like he is, and having people read his book is even worse. And yet again, that makes you an unconscious proponent of fascism. Congratulations.
I already explained why books carry more weight with somebody than a blog post does. You and me, and many other people see Mein Kampf for what it is. An ignorant and prejudiced person reads a book written by Hitler which reads a lot more eloquent than a Neo Nazi website, and they revere the book. There are fucking idiots in this world, and more times than not they're prejudiced and eat up anything that makes them feel better about themselves and blames everybody else. If you're going to tell me people don't worship books when we have holy texts people base their life on, you're wrong. There's nothing fascistic about not wanting fascism (specifically Nazi ideogoly) in your society, and no amount of comparisons and analogies will change that. It's an evil book written by an evil man and it has absolutely no place in this world.
36716
« on: December 08, 2014, 07:28:56 PM »
Sega Dreamcast.
36717
« on: December 08, 2014, 07:25:34 PM »
That's where you're wrong. You're free from fascism. That shit has no place in a civilized society that values equality and democracy.
Clearly not, if one book is all it takes for your culture to descend into fascism, so much so that it must be banned. If it's that easy, I think this society's values lie elsewhere.
In fact, I would call the suppression of ideas very un-democratic.
Don't twist things.
Suppression of fascism is not suppression of ideas. And there's no slippery slope effect either. Fascism is a very clear and serious danger to democracy and freedom. If censoring a book written by a madman that promotes fascism is fascism to you, then you're living in some sort of topsy turvy world.
It might try to promote fascism, but censoring it and suppressing the book won't stop idiots from getting their hands on it. It's better to allow that piece of garbage to exist, because it genuinely is as hard to read as a brick and anyone trying to base their belief system off it would seriously struggle to make heads or tails of it.
Neo-Nazi idiots just parrot the shit that their friends and fathers parroted to them, actually trying to extract sense from mein kampf is pretty futile and I would say it's beyond the skill of the average skinhead.
In my opinion, it's better to let people see the evils of the ideas contained in that book for themselves than to tell them it's bad and ban it outright.
The people reading it won't see it as evil.
If you've read about what the Nazis have done and you're interested enough to read the book of psycho numero uno himself, chances are you think they had some good ideas.
Well, I've read it. Or most of it anyway, I got sick of reading a brick and gave up.
Despite my earlier half joke, it is an evil book. It's filled with the kind of shit you see on stormfront nowadays but written in the context of 80-90 years ago.
I've read quite a lot about what the nazis did, if there was an SS officer in the same room as me and I had a gun - I'd shoot the bastard in cold blood.
I was interested to get a look at the psychology behind the lunatic responsible for all that shit, not because I thought that the Nazis needed to kill off some more jews and cripples.
You have to learn from history to avoid the same mistakes being repeated, the problem with stamping out the remainder of the problem is it's harder to study it in the future and make sure it never happens again.
Then read a history book.
Erase it from your mind, don't promote it, don't waste time on it. It's wrong, it's stupid, and it's against everything humanity is supposed to be.
Besides, there's genocide going on right now. There's governments brainwashing and controlling their citizens right now. That book not being banned hasn't stopped anything fm from being repeated.
I have read many.
I in no way promote it, whenever it's brought up I say how shite the book is let alone the abhorrent content. Understanding what you are supposed to watch for in others is important, sure you can try and leave it all up to intuition but there isn't anything wrong with understanding the mind (or trying to) of people who think like that. Finding out what makes them tick is important as it helps you prevent others from falling into the same pitfalls.
And the genocides currently being carried out are not over things mentioned in mein kampf or any other nazi literature. It's over ethnic divisions and power struggles in Africa and the middle east. The Hutus in Rwanda weren't Neo-Nazis, they just wanted to butcher the Tutsis.
Right, and as long we have history books no Naziesque regime will ever pop up again.
But the point is there's nothing to gain by allowing people to read this book that can't be gained by reading a history book.
Except history books inevitably abridge and abbreviate, put the author's spin on things and paint a narrative. Even if the original source material is disgusting, shielding people from it and buffing over the stain on humanity's existence won't work well in the long run.
It's better to remember the horrors and to study the events that led to them occurring and then to remember how we shoved that shit back up the asshole of the bastards who dreamt it up in the first place <______<
Mein Kampf doesn't really inform anybody though, it's just the ramblings of Hitler and his bullshit ideology.
Most history books do a good jobs at being unbiased.
That would depend on how you approach the book, at face value that is all it is. It's a book filled with inane rants about how the jews cockblocked him from art school and are stealing petrol from his car and turning into woodlice to crawl under the furniture.
When viewing the wider picture, the fact that the book is a load of shit serves a purpose. To show people that the ideology behind the nazis was infact just a crock of shit dreamt up by some syphilitic wanker to shift the blame from everything onto a scapegoat. It takes the 'mystery' away from it, to find out that the great orator himself was just that. Full of hot wind and little else.
Some do, some don't. I'm not really happy with the general standard of them though and over-reliance on secondhand and thirdhand material leads to a game of chinese whispers. I'd rather the original, abhorrent message was preserved for all to see and decry, than a watered down version was spoonfed to everyone.
Anybody with half a brain can tell the Jews were a scapegoat. We don't need this book to know that. Reading a history book and seeing everything that happened in a few pages is what kills the mysticism. It was just another phase in humanity where some idiots tried to take over the world and failed. That's it. Everything else is irrelevant and their propaganda is irrelevant.
36718
« on: December 08, 2014, 07:19:22 PM »
Denying anybody service because of their beliefs is wrong.
And it should be up to the consumers to show them how wrong they are.
In other words, put them out of business. Set social standards without having to get the law involved.
That's against everything America and all other Western nations stand for.
What if you're a minority in a town of white people? You can't get a bottle of water because they don't want to serve you (apart from the degradation and humiliation of that), you have nobody who will rally with you to bring the place down financially because all the other white folks keep going.
No. Hell no. We just got rid of this shit half a century ago and you want to bring it back? What's next, segregated schools and water fountains?
>tfw you can order a case of water on amazon
MURICA
>tfw you'll die of dehydration before it gets to you
>tfw you have to send a picture of your skin color before Amazon sells you anything
>tfw you can't get gas at any gas station
>tfw you can't get internet because the ISP is bigoted
Amazon is a pretty huge corporation, as are gas stations and most internet providers.
And yet buying water from Amazon isn't really viable if you're thirsty.
They can afford to refuse customers all they want it you give them the freedom to do so. It's retarded and we need to be moving away from that, not trying to bring it back.
You honestly believe that water would be cut off to houses with gay folk?
That grocery stores would deny their business?
I believe it's not something I'd like to find out. If you want to deny equal rights to people, then I really don't know what to say to you.
I'm not denying anyone's rights at all. But I'm pretty sure businesses like that would still yet again fall into the corporation category, or any businesses that sell things essential for normal daily life.
Either way, to deny business for those kinds of things to anyone would easily spark outrage.
Why do we need to spark outrage instead of just forcing everybody to serve all people?
36719
« on: December 08, 2014, 07:15:50 PM »
Denying anybody service because of their beliefs is wrong.
And it should be up to the consumers to show them how wrong they are.
In other words, put them out of business. Set social standards without having to get the law involved.
That's against everything America and all other Western nations stand for.
What if you're a minority in a town of white people? You can't get a bottle of water because they don't want to serve you (apart from the degradation and humiliation of that), you have nobody who will rally with you to bring the place down financially because all the other white folks keep going.
No. Hell no. We just got rid of this shit half a century ago and you want to bring it back? What's next, segregated schools and water fountains?
>tfw you can order a case of water on amazon
MURICA
>tfw you'll die of dehydration before it gets to you
>tfw you have to send a picture of your skin color before Amazon sells you anything
>tfw you can't get gas at any gas station
>tfw you can't get internet because the ISP is bigoted
Amazon is a pretty huge corporation, as are gas stations and most internet providers.
And yet buying water from Amazon isn't really viable if you're thirsty.
They can afford to refuse customers all they want it you give them the freedom to do so. It's retarded and we need to be moving away from that, not trying to bring it back.
You honestly believe that water would be cut off to houses with gay folk?
That grocery stores would deny their business?
I believe it's not something I'd like to find out. If you want to deny equal rights to people, then I really don't know what to say to you.
36720
« on: December 08, 2014, 07:14:32 PM »
That's where you're wrong. You're free from fascism. That shit has no place in a civilized society that values equality and democracy.
Clearly not, if one book is all it takes for your culture to descend into fascism, so much so that it must be banned. If it's that easy, I think this society's values lie elsewhere.
In fact, I would call the suppression of ideas very un-democratic.
Don't twist things.
Suppression of fascism is not suppression of ideas. And there's no slippery slope effect either. Fascism is a very clear and serious danger to democracy and freedom. If censoring a book written by a madman that promotes fascism is fascism to you, then you're living in some sort of topsy turvy world.
It might try to promote fascism, but censoring it and suppressing the book won't stop idiots from getting their hands on it. It's better to allow that piece of garbage to exist, because it genuinely is as hard to read as a brick and anyone trying to base their belief system off it would seriously struggle to make heads or tails of it.
Neo-Nazi idiots just parrot the shit that their friends and fathers parroted to them, actually trying to extract sense from mein kampf is pretty futile and I would say it's beyond the skill of the average skinhead.
In my opinion, it's better to let people see the evils of the ideas contained in that book for themselves than to tell them it's bad and ban it outright.
The people reading it won't see it as evil.
If you've read about what the Nazis have done and you're interested enough to read the book of psycho numero uno himself, chances are you think they had some good ideas.
Well, I've read it. Or most of it anyway, I got sick of reading a brick and gave up.
Despite my earlier half joke, it is an evil book. It's filled with the kind of shit you see on stormfront nowadays but written in the context of 80-90 years ago.
I've read quite a lot about what the nazis did, if there was an SS officer in the same room as me and I had a gun - I'd shoot the bastard in cold blood.
I was interested to get a look at the psychology behind the lunatic responsible for all that shit, not because I thought that the Nazis needed to kill off some more jews and cripples.
You have to learn from history to avoid the same mistakes being repeated, the problem with stamping out the remainder of the problem is it's harder to study it in the future and make sure it never happens again.
Then read a history book.
Erase it from your mind, don't promote it, don't waste time on it. It's wrong, it's stupid, and it's against everything humanity is supposed to be.
Besides, there's genocide going on right now. There's governments brainwashing and controlling their citizens right now. That book not being banned hasn't stopped anything fm from being repeated.
I have read many.
I in no way promote it, whenever it's brought up I say how shite the book is let alone the abhorrent content. Understanding what you are supposed to watch for in others is important, sure you can try and leave it all up to intuition but there isn't anything wrong with understanding the mind (or trying to) of people who think like that. Finding out what makes them tick is important as it helps you prevent others from falling into the same pitfalls.
And the genocides currently being carried out are not over things mentioned in mein kampf or any other nazi literature. It's over ethnic divisions and power struggles in Africa and the middle east. The Hutus in Rwanda weren't Neo-Nazis, they just wanted to butcher the Tutsis.
Right, and as long we have history books no Naziesque regime will ever pop up again.
But the point is there's nothing to gain by allowing people to read this book that can't be gained by reading a history book.
Except history books inevitably abridge and abbreviate, put the author's spin on things and paint a narrative. Even if the original source material is disgusting, shielding people from it and buffing over the stain on humanity's existence won't work well in the long run.
It's better to remember the horrors and to study the events that led to them occurring and then to remember how we shoved that shit back up the asshole of the bastards who dreamt it up in the first place <______<
Mein Kampf doesn't really inform anybody though, it's just the ramblings of Hitler and his bullshit ideology. Most history books do a good jobs at being unbiased.
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