Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on October 24, 2015, 10:30:58 AM

Quote from: Mordo on October 24, 2015, 06:55:12 AM

>gets asked to define white privilege after provoking an argument
>"OHMYGOD SO INFURIATING IM BASICALLY BEING ASKED TO DEMONSTRATE MY BUZZWORD OF THE DAY YOU SHOULD ALREADY KNOW THIS YOU WHITE DEVILS"

Why is it when you get to brass tacks with these people they always find some slippery sleight of hand to dodge the questions being asked? I mean, I guess he provided some semblance of an answer, but not before throwing a fucking temper tantrum about it.

I think the most infuriating thing is that white people are never asked to do anything about white privilege, just accept it and feel bad about it. And when asked to define it, the author throws out the pathetic analogy to asking a fish to describe water  -- we're so used to it we don't even see it. How convenient.

If white privilege is genuine, why the fuck would white people do anything about it?

Shit man, I want to make life easier for myself, not harder.

Empathy?

You know, that basic human emotion

Something by Rammstein, obviously, but I can't think of what my favorite would be

Probably either Ich Tu Dir Weh or Keine Lust

Pretty stupid, tbh

You can't measure the automatic response of someone by training them to go a certain direction, then switching it at the last moment and saying that they were racist because you didn't get faster times when "good" was switched to the black side

You = Nigger

Incan = rude

I don't find it particularly humorous to be perfectly honest. Invert the gender and race and I guarantee you wouldn't find it that amusing.

This just in: problems with discrimination have absolutely no context to them and must be just on a purely objective basis without regard to societal or institutional biases

Quote from: Cindo on October 30, 2015, 03:18:26 PM

Quote from: Mordo on October 30, 2015, 03:00:28 PM

Quote from: Cindo on October 30, 2015, 02:32:00 PM

Woah, all of a sudden poverty, poor education, and oppression of the working class are all problems. Strange that nobody noticed that until just recently!

It is certainly strange how nobody seems to want to talk about the fact that white males sustain the most damage from poverty.

Yeah, man

If anybody's got the short end of the stick throughout history and the modern age it's been white dudes, that's for sure.

le progressive white bashing meme

You actually going to address the statistics, or are you going to subtly denigrate and handwave genuine grievances that white males in the UK withhold?

Okay, what about the statistic do I address? The fact that white males make up a significant part of the working class of South England and that class-based divides are pretty much the ultimate divider?

Or the "RACISM NOT REAL WHITE PRIVILEGE IS FALSE HURPA DURPA" one that people love trying to push with this statistic?

Lie Furrby said, no pepperoni nips please

Other than that? Not cowtits and not carpenter's delight. Anything in-between and I'm happy.

Incorrect

There is nothing wrong with any given person not being interested in any given field; I don't think most women's lack of interest in maths is bad per se, though It really limits how many people I can share it with.

It's just that maths is a field of study made by men to answer questions asked by them; any woman with access to the people/books/education institutes could join in, but most don't, and this trend goes back at least to ancient Greece. And when I think about it, it's not the maths itself that's masculine, but the applications of it - just studying algebra for the sake of it has nothing to do with humans of any kind, but solving an engineering problem is definitely masculine, and for that you need algebra.

But there's nothing inherently masculine about math, nor does math have any sort of reason, biologically, to develop in men and not women. It's not as though higher levels of testosterone make a person great in math.

The point you're making is cyclical, in a sense. Yes, men have historically devoted more time to the maths than women, but women have also been treated as weaker and less intelligent throughout most of history by the cultures which made bounds and leaps in mathematics.

I agree and have nothing against the contributions of the women who do choose to contribute, but I am concerned that their contributions may come at a cost to them having their own families.

Women are biological caretakers, but that means next to nothing in the present day. Men are entirely as capable as women are of taking care of children and raising a family - unless you count breastfeeding as the absolute end-all-be-all to raising a kid.

Added onto that, we're no longer at a point in history where continued reproduction is vital to the success of our families, communities, or race. We've got problems with OVERpopulation. It hardly matters if a man or women doesn't want to have children in this day and age.

You're not coming off as a cunt.

And I thought I stated my point, men's business clothes carry a level of respect with them due to the qualifications required to wear one, and I forgot to mention but also the financial implications of being able to afford one. Casual clothes of men and women carry no such connotations, so when someone wears the casual clothes of the opposite sex it isn't for respect; the only reason I can think of is that it's for sexual reasons.

As Egg pointed out, the level of female clothing worn by a man is not looked at any differently. You're arguing this point based on class whilst I'm doing it based on the gendered nature of the clothes themselves - a women can wear anything from boxer briefs and a loose men's t-shirt and nobody bats an eye, but if a man were to wear a highly professional blouse and pencil skirt or a flowing gown, it'd be looked at as strange or an abomination.

And you really can't think of any other reasons that a person might wear certain clothes? Maybe, I dunno, he thinks he looks good in them?

I don't like anal, I do not understand the appeal at all; a tube full of shit is just as disgusting to me regardless of who or what it is attached to; going further and sticking your dick in it, especially when if it's a women then there is a perfectly good vagina right there, makes no sense to me. I can handle perverted things but not anal.

Uh...okay? That still has nothing to do with the hatred of gay men - unless you dislike gay people purely because you don't find what they do to be attractive, in which case that proves the point that I was trying to make on said issue and...kinda makes you shitty.

I don't see anything wrong with women being effeminate, that's how they evolved to be and it's how i find myself attracted to them. Likewise I do have a problem with men being effeminate because that isn't how they evolved to be and as a result it leaves me deeply confused about them - the only times when I would ever act like that, or any of my friends would act like that, is as a joke.

Neither men nor women "evolved" like that, western standards of society have simply become the norm across the world and that's what become the norm across the world. The concept of gender and sex is (rightfully) held to much more variable and fluid standards by hundreds of cultures across the world - it's just that those have died out and/or become much smaller and less influential with the westernization of the world in the last few hundred years.

Societal standards can evolve, but there's no "biological" reason for masculine and feminine traits being assigned so rigidly. Pink was considered a masculine color until 60 or so years ago, after all.

I'm finding this quite helpful typing out these ideas to someone like you, I don't get this kind of confrontation of my opinions from anyone I know and I'm getting the feeling that I wouldn't have as much of a problem with you LGBT if all discussions on it were better informed.

Once again, I appreciate your willingness to learn on the subjects and am happy to discuss things with you, but you...might wanna find better ways to phrase that. It's coming off as the whole, "wow you sure are well spoken for a black guy" thing.

👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good shit go౦ԁ sHit👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌shit right👌👌there👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯 i say so 💯 thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good shit

SHINY

AND

CHROME

Likewise, I fucking love maths, I've gone over it's several thousand year history and found amongst hundreds of noteworthy men, only two women - Meanwhile in my personal life, the best mathematician I've ever met was the female embodiment of Clint Eastwood,  but she is the only exception amongst all the men.

No offense, but a personal anecdote doesn't have much sway - I'm not saying that you're wrong, just that you can't apply your personal experience to the world.

What's more, you're simply proving my point - associating mathematics and the like with masculine qualities and stating that women inherently find them less interesting. I won't go so far as to say that you're specifically implying that they're negatives, but I will say that the way it's worded sort of hints in that direction when reading between the lines.

This is simply wrong- Western society simply acknowledges men and women as different; it certainly places obvious value on man's ability to keep us alive with technology and hard work, but it still has the subtle appreciation for good and honest women who keep society alive and families together. Any instance of society where this is not the case is broken.

Correlation does not equal causation, and the fact that men go into primarily technical fields and have overall shown more lean towards those types of things does not mean that women are not important to the field or should be discredited. Women have played major roles in the establishment of programming, DNA mapping, computing, and many more areas of science and mathematics.

What's more, a culture that describes these "necessary" things as "masculine" inherently discourages women from the fields.

Clothing is of course an extension of the differences between men and women, nothing complicated there. you admit yourself that the first two examples are just fetishes, not really much point in bringing them up. I myself would argue that women in pants is also a bit of a fetish provided the pants are tight enough and the girl has a good figure. As for women wearing suits, I can't help but feel that they're trying to hard to be a man, that doesn't make me respect them, but at the same time if we're talking suits we must be talking about important business, so anyone qualified to wear a suit is automatically worthy of respect regardless of sex - and that's the key point here, there is no situation in which a man or woman gains respect by walking around in their underwear, an professional business is by and large a male invention so of course the de facto style is male.

I don't mean to come off as a cunt here, but...you've just completely misread my entire argument on this factor. I'm questioning WHY males wearing feminine clothes is only regarded as a fetish whilst women in masculine clothes is regarded as normal and possibly even more normal than more outwardly feminine clothes in this day and age.

And clothes aren't inherently gendered - they're only labeled as such because of the notions that society has given them. Plenty of cultures had dress or skirt-like clothing for men and women alike.

I would argue that the greater of acceptance of lesbians over gays is because AIDS and HIV are very real, very disgusting things - and the general idea of ejaculating into a shit filled hole is not appealing to most people. I would also argue that gay pride parades only solidify those stereotypes, if that's the identity they want people to recognize them then they have to live with people recognizing it as weird. Also I wouldn't class those stereotypes as acting like a girl, no respectable girl acts like that.

Yeah, that's why anal is such a huge kink among straight men, right? Because who would find the idea of fucking butts to be attractive or anything?

And once again, you've only been reinforcing my point. Why is it not "respectable" to act more effeminate? This is exactly the sort of thing I'm referring to when I say that society has an inherently negative view of femininity.

I'll just speak my mind here. I don't hate you LGBT people and have no intention of harassing you but your entire existence is something that bugs me on a fundamental level, I don't like this hypocritical push to make you all considered normal while your entire identity as a group is based on being NOT normal. There's a MtF pre hormones at my school and they are a brilliant chemist, easily the best I know; I don't have a problem with them because they don't go out of their way to make everything about their condition, though I don't spend any considerable amount of time talking to them.

Our entire identity as a group is on attempting to be viewed as normal. You misunderstand the reason of the LGBT community to constantly talk about their issues and plights - it's not to make themselves stand off as something "special" or "weird" or "offbrand" or "different", it's about trying to normalize these ideas in the heads of everyone else and get the concept in their heads that it's not something that should be shunned or ignored or hated.

That's the whole point. We want these things to be normal, but we don't want to be forced into a strict, pre-define concept of "normality" that was decided for us without regard to our issues.

I'm getting really rambly now but I think I'd enjoy getting to talk about this more, no hatred or malice just curiosity about a different way of life.

I appreciate your willingness to learn more on these issues.

Quote from: Cindo on October 28, 2015, 06:06:51 PM

buckle up, buckaroo

Yes, that was the joke

I think feminine men are disgusting. If you're a man, you're a man. If you're a woman, you're a woman. I don't even like very feminine women all that much.

Thus, uh

Thus proving my point

Cindo's 19 you hoebag