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Messages - Anonymous (User Deleted)
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3121
« on: March 30, 2015, 09:58:10 AM »
But does "Mission Accomplished" somehow not imply the end of operations?
No...it doesn't. I have no idea what compels you to think that the first mission of the war constitutes its entirety.
I don't. But why would the Bush administration push that untrue narrative as they so clearly did? Which is disgusting and pretty much wholly the fault of the CIA and a lack of oversight. And, as much as I hate to say it, our human rights abuses don't even touch Saddam's. Were we wrong to do it? Obviously. But let's have some proportion. Either way, it damaged the country's image and contributed to the current state of affairs in Iraq and the Middle East. Regardless of how much you'd like to deny it, the ISIS threat can be directly attributed to the invasion of Iraq. One reason why we're running airstrikes in Syria instead of toppling Assad already, and that's because as much of a bastard as he is, having a government to speak of is better than not having one. It helps to keep the region stable while not creating more enemies for ourselves. Not true, at least in the case of the UN. Kofi Annan can sit around spewing all the bullshit he wants, but the only organisation with the authority to rule on that issue, the Security Council, hasn't.
They didn't because they're not just going to tell the US that it violated international law. Too big to be punished, and folks like you wouldn't let that happen anyway. Having a proving record of genocide with chemical weapons, human rights abuses, aggressive expansionism, the ability to cripple the world's economy, not being desirable to co-existence with according to legislation and being a certified fucking psychopath is not neutral. They were neutral towards the US. It's an independent country's right to be a shitty place to live, but that has fuck all to do with its foreign policy. Oh for fuck's sake.
A majority of the Iraqi population says they feel worse off since the country was invaded. 'Welcomed' my ass. They might well have done, but I've already told you Bush was enacting the promises of the Clinton Administration. Bush didn't look at his sky-high ratings and just go "Hmmm, Iraq". His decision didn't exist in some political vacuum. Glad to see Clinton take some blame for once. Not that liberals would let him face any sort of criticism because his wife's a presidential contender now. This is such a fucking stupid thing to say I can't even wrap my head around it. Just because you don't like my nuance on the issue, it doesn't give you the authority to take it away. To endorse something as a whole is not to endorse it wholesale.
Nuance? More like "let's ignore the lies and abuses that were the basis of invading Iraq in 2003, and change them to more convenient reasons that have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight," while still ignoring the facts indicating that Iraq is such a crapshoot because of Western intervention. Hence, 'endorsement of lies.' The deposition of Saddam was seemingly the only positive outcome of the invasion. The abuses and overall sorry state of affairs in Iraq overshadow any other 'benefits' that may have come from the invasion.
3122
« on: March 30, 2015, 09:39:15 AM »
Nope.
3123
« on: March 29, 2015, 07:29:27 PM »
I liked my Meth class Mr. Heisenberg
3124
« on: March 29, 2015, 07:18:47 PM »
12 years later. American boots on the ground. Um...
So when you write a to-do list, after checking off the first item, do you say you're done and call it a day?
It would have been obscenely irresponsible to destroy Saddam's regime and then subsequently pull out. I guarantee the condition of the Middle East would be far worse today if that had happened.
I have never argued against that being the case. But does "Mission Accomplished" somehow not imply the end of operations? Bush literally said, "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended." That wasn't true for a number of years, unless you like grasping at straws. To endorse the Iraq War is to endorse all of the lies that came with it, which you and Meta seem to have been doing throughout this thread. Of course there wasn't any animus towards Iraq. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Say what you want about oil interests, but I'd take Halliburton's duplicity over Hussein controlling the Strait of Hormuz. Oil is a global security and macroeconomic interest.
And I always found the argument of 'we found WMDs in Iraq so we were correct all along' to seem fallacious.
Exactly correct, and Bush and Blair did a disservice to the world in initially trying to scare people.
But it doesn't neglect the fact that Bush just enacted the promises of the Clinton administration, and that Iraq was in violation of the U.N. resolutions imposed upon it and that it had a latent WMD capacity and a proven record of genocidal intentions.
Bush and Blair didn't need--or shouldn't have needed--to whip up a frenzy to justify an already wholly-justified war. I completely agree that they were wrong, and that our subsequent discovery of WMDs doesn't validate them, but it doesn't change the situation even slightly in relation to the righteousness of the war.
I don't think some of the reasons for wanting to invade Iraq were necessarily invalid. Gassing his own people, committing human rights violations--he was a bastard, plain and simple. It's not wrong to want to see Saddam deposed or held accountable for what he did (and I wish it were as easy as it sounds). And for that, the mission was accomplished. But at what cost? Lies and half-truths to our allies and the public at large. Strained relations with our allies and a damaged image abroad. Numerous human rights abuses. Violating international law to invade a nation that was essentially neutral. We were certainly not welcomed as liberators. Nearly everything we were told about Iraq wasn't true. I disagree with the notion that the September 11 attacks somehow did not play a role in the invasion: Bush had astronomical approval ratings that would give Putin a run for his money--and in a bold new world where jet planes are the new WMDs, everything sounds like the next terrorist attack waiting to happen. This is the exact same sentiment that allowed mass surveillance to become a completely legal reality (which carries its own deliberate misconceptions by the government). You can not plausibly deny the evidence of this before you. I've said this before and I'll say it again, to endorse the Iraq war is to endorse all the lies and half-truths (and criminality and fearmongering) that came with it.
3125
« on: March 29, 2015, 04:32:00 PM »
12 years later. American boots on the ground. Um...
Funnily enough, toppling a fascistic regime and lifting the lid on sectarianism in the country--coupled with Iranian-backed insurgency--isn't a two, three or even five year job.
That's a funny way to spell "Mission Accomplished!" PS: I saw your other reply too >.> I'm off to dinner though, need some food for thought.
3126
« on: March 29, 2015, 04:27:28 PM »
But I could go on and on about half-truths. *cough*
That's kind of irrelevant to what you're talking about though, isn't it?
One could just as easily throw out statistics of people that didn't realize Iraq had WMDs at all. Hell, it's still a widespread belief that it was just a fabricated excuse to go to war, despite the use of chemical weapons being a decade-long conflict with Iraq.
But it was a fabricated excuse. The pretense was that Iraq had an active WMD program. That was proven to be false. The mission supposedly ended, but that was false, too.
Haha, seriously? The successful mission accomplishment was false? The coalition absolutely steamrolled through Iraq and was very successful in its mission of toppling Saddam's regime. That's what that speech was about. It wasn't saying the entire war was over, just the first mission. And that beings up another point: The first objective of the war was to oust Saddam. It was not to stop a weapons program, it was to get him out. Stopping a potentially active weapons program was one of the objectives, but it wasn't the first, and it wasn't the sole reason for the invasion. By and large the ultimate goal was to address the humanitarian problems in the country.
12 years later. American boots on the ground. Um...
3127
« on: March 29, 2015, 04:18:41 PM »
The pretense was that Iraq had an active WMD program.
Even if that was the immediate case, it's facile to say we were somehow misled into a war. We never should've left him in power in '92, and the passage of the 1998 Iraqi Liberation Act quite explicitly said that co-existence with Saddam's regime was neither possible nor desirable.
There wasn't a sudden hysteria of anti-Iraqi feeling among the government, and anybody in the public who feels that way is either being dishonest or wasn't paying attention.
Of course there wasn't any animus towards Iraq. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.And I always found the argument of 'we found WMDs in Iraq so we were correct all along' to seem fallacious. I liken it to climate denial. Despite the decades of evidence and overwhelming scientific consensus in favor of climate change, there are folks who like to ignore all of that and deny its existence anyway. On the off chance that those naysayers are actually correct, sure, they'll be right to some degree, but for all the wrong reasons. I would highly recommend that they abandon that school of thought in the future because of the unlikely chances of it being consistently correct.
3128
« on: March 29, 2015, 04:06:03 PM »
But I could go on and on about half-truths. *cough*
4 in 10 Americans would be correct.
The operative word in 'active WMD program' is active.
Who fucking cares? It's a point of non-discussion. Of course a stockpile of WMDs is not going to be active when there's no government to run the fucking programme.
What matters is that we did find WMDs.
It was most certainly not in the capacity that the public and multiple world governments were led to believe. It was a justification for war founded on lies.
3129
« on: March 29, 2015, 04:04:13 PM »
But I could go on and on about half-truths. *cough*
That's kind of irrelevant to what you're talking about though, isn't it?
One could just as easily throw out statistics of people that didn't realize Iraq had WMDs at all. Hell, it's still a widespread belief that it was just a fabricated excuse to go to war, despite the use of chemical weapons being a decade-long conflict with Iraq.
But it was a fabricated excuse. The pretense was that Iraq had an active WMD program. That was proven to be false. The mission supposedly ended, but that was false, too. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
3130
« on: March 29, 2015, 03:59:31 PM »
But I could go on and on about half-truths. *cough*
4 in 10 Americans would be correct.
The operative word in 'active WMD program' is active. The suggestion that Iraq had an active WMD program is factually inaccurate. To support the Iraq War is to support all of the misconceptions surrounding it.
3131
« on: March 29, 2015, 03:54:45 PM »
Thanks for creating ISIS, dipshits.
ISIS has existed since at least 1999.
Not true.
I stopped reading at the blatantly false statement:
Three years ago, the Islamic State (Isis) did not exist
It was founded by al-Zarqawi in 1999 as the JTJ.
ISIS as we know it did not exist then. The statement is still true. But I could go on and on about half-truths. *cough*
3132
« on: March 29, 2015, 03:37:57 PM »
Thanks for creating ISIS, dipshits.
ISIS has existed since at least 1999.
Not true.
3133
« on: March 29, 2015, 03:04:03 PM »
Perpetuates the flawed notion that the West should be international policemen, and then pats itself on the back as if it won and the world is somehow more stable than it was before. Thanks for creating ISIS, dipshits. 
3134
« on: March 29, 2015, 12:24:58 AM »
3135
« on: March 29, 2015, 12:04:41 AM »
Holy crap I was just playing this game again, lol
Rosh is literally Jar Jar-tier. It's always so tempting to go dark side just for revenge, but the ending isn't as satisfying that way
Ah, I wish Jedi Academy had been a serious game, though. There's a lot of good missions and cool locations, it's just a shame that the story is so half-assed.
I felt that the story was pretty good, but then again I was young and probably yelled "STUR WURZ MURRRR"!!!!!!
The voice acting for Jaden and Rosh was freaking awful though.
lol well yeah, everything Star Wars was cooler in middle school  we got the Clone Wars miniseries thing, Republic Commando, KOTOR--and in retrospect, everybody was handling Star Wars better than Lucas was! But my inability to take JKA seriously may have something to do with a particular series of videos. >.> Be warned, it may change the game forever:
3136
« on: March 28, 2015, 10:41:01 PM »
Hnnng Scarlett Johansson would be a good choice
But they should really go with an Asian actress. Hollywood whitewashing = not cool
fanboy detected.
>.> Black Widow tho
shes a one dimensional actress.
um wow ok
dude, she freaking played black widow in the movie Lucy. If the plot was tweaked, it totally could have been her origin story!
I didn't see Lucy >.> the premise turned me off.
3137
« on: March 28, 2015, 09:26:30 PM »
No but seriously like, I was making a few reports and LC had PM'd me to get the attention of one of the other mods because he was unavailable. I kind of wasn't sure what to do besides that, though >.>
3138
« on: March 28, 2015, 09:22:51 PM »
Hnnng Scarlett Johansson would be a good choice
But they should really go with an Asian actress. Hollywood whitewashing = not cool
fanboy detected.
>.> Black Widow tho
shes a one dimensional actress.
um wow ok
3139
« on: March 28, 2015, 09:13:19 PM »
Hnnng Scarlett Johansson would be a good choice
But they should really go with an Asian actress. Hollywood whitewashing = not cool
fanboy detected.
>.> Black Widow tho
3140
« on: March 28, 2015, 09:11:29 PM »
first thing that came to mind
3141
« on: March 28, 2015, 07:37:34 PM »
That's the thing. I've done it before and nothing happened. I reported Challenger on this many times, and yet he continued.
There's one hell of a double standard here.
Wait, I just heard that you posted your own name on Sep7agon before. Um... is that true?
Because if it is, I'm not sure who's necessarily at fault for your predicament >.>
Not exactly. I made a guess my real name thread in Anarchy. Nuka obviously knew it and it started from there.
If I did post it before I don't know where but I'll redact it, though it's probably too late now.
Oh >.> sorry to hear that.
3142
« on: March 28, 2015, 07:32:09 PM »
Holy crap I was just playing this game again, lol
Rosh is literally Jar Jar-tier. It's always so tempting to go dark side just for revenge, but the ending isn't as satisfying that way
Ah, I wish Jedi Academy had been a serious game, though. There's a lot of good missions and cool locations, it's just a shame that the story is so half-assed.
3143
« on: March 28, 2015, 07:29:54 PM »
That's the thing. I've done it before and nothing happened. I reported Challenger on this many times, and yet he continued.
There's one hell of a double standard here.
Wait, I just heard that you posted your own name on Sep7agon before. Um... is that true? Because if it is, I'm not sure who's necessarily at fault for your predicament >.>
3144
« on: March 28, 2015, 06:58:25 PM »
At least I won't have to worry about Challenger spamming my first name anymore.
Don't worry Armen.
I fucking hate you.
Why don't you just report and ask for a mod edit?
I have before. According to the mods and Cheat, it doesn't break the precious delicate rules and that it's "public knowledge" when in reality I only revealed my real name in Anarchy, not anywhere else on this forum, but nope. In this case, what happens in Anarchy stays in Anarchy doesn't count, so I have to deal with it basically.
Thing is, if they were using my real name in a non-malicious way, that's fine, but the fact is they're not. They're using my own name just to taunt me.
Oh, bullshit (to their excuse). Plenty of forums have do-not-post lists. If it happened to me, my name would be scrubbed from the site before most users would even notice.
Tell you what. I'll try again. Right now.
If nothing happens, then you will know.
Yeah, because I really can't see how it would be too much to ask. Good luck.
3145
« on: March 28, 2015, 06:55:50 PM »
At least I won't have to worry about Challenger spamming my first name anymore.
Don't worry Armen.
I fucking hate you.
Why don't you just report and ask for a mod edit?
I have before. According to the mods and Cheat, it doesn't break the precious delicate rules and that it's "public knowledge" when in reality I only revealed my real name in Anarchy, not anywhere else on this forum, but nope. In this case, what happens in Anarchy stays in Anarchy doesn't count, so I have to deal with it basically.
Thing is, if they were using my real name in a non-malicious way, that's fine, but the fact is they're not. They're using my own name just to taunt me.
Oh, bullshit (to their excuse). Plenty of forums have do-not-post lists. If it happened to me, my name would be scrubbed from the site before most users would even notice. lol, Slash posted my GT once and it got scrubbed because I didn't want it posted >.> not that it matters anymore, everybody knows it by now, but still.
3146
« on: March 28, 2015, 06:54:32 PM »
Hnnng Scarlett Johansson would be a good choice
But they should really go with an Asian actress. Hollywood whitewashing = not cool
3147
« on: March 28, 2015, 06:51:24 PM »
It's really not. You can privatize pretty much anything, and not only will it it run, it will run better than any centrally-run system.
Shit like this is why libertarians aren't taken seriously.
3148
« on: March 28, 2015, 06:49:30 PM »
At least I won't have to worry about Challenger spamming my first name anymore.
Don't worry Armen.
I fucking hate you.
Why don't you just report and ask for a mod edit?
3149
« on: March 28, 2015, 05:35:23 PM »
I reported the shit out of them.
why
because
3150
« on: March 28, 2015, 05:32:40 PM »
USAS w/ frag rounds
pre-nerf
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