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Serious / Re: Sep7agon's favorite television host weighs in on you-know-who
« on: November 14, 2016, 12:21:34 PM »
Except it was a remark about Islam's poor treatment of women under sharia law, "I wonder why miss khan didn't say anything, maybe she wasn't allowed", which is a fair question to ask.
To me, it sounded completely uncalled for, and didn't have any basis in reality pertaining to the Khans. It's not like Trump doesn't have a history of ad hominem whenever someone criticizes him.
Quote
Given that he already made reference to the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 with the intention of changing it, I don't think it's a stretch that he would also know about the ruling passed in 1964 that has allowed for an overwhelmingly negative coverage of his campaign
What does Trump's statements on immigration have to do with libel laws? It doesn't change the fact that you're putting words in his mouth. That's a huge stretch and you know it.

And as I already said, he won, plus he did make a number of damaging statements on his own (here's one), so it'd be incredibly difficult for him to *demonstrate to a court* that the media's campaign damaged him.

But to be clear, I'm not denying that the media was clearly biased against the guy, and that they did push things that often weren't entirely accurate.

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He's gonna build a wall in the sky to keep the aliens out
ok really tho that admittedly sounds pretty neat
shield world when?

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Serious / Trump's conflicts of interest (UPDATED)
« on: November 14, 2016, 09:12:29 AM »
UPDATE: See yesterday's New York Times piece also covering the issue. Original post is below.

The Guardian ran a piece Saturday about Trump's extensive list of potential conflicts of interest.

(As far as I know, Trump has done less to step back from his businesses than Hillary did to step back from the Clinton Foundation.)

Spoiler
Quote
Trump's conflicts of interest take White House into uncharted territory

With his children, and not a blind trust, running his company, little prevents the president-elect’s political and business careers from bleeding into each other

Sam Thielman in New York



When President-elect Donald Trump enters the White House next year he will bring with him potential conflicts of interest across all areas of government that are unprecedented in American history.

Trump, who manages a sprawling, international network of businesses, has thus far refused to put his businesses into a blind trust the way his predecessors in the nation’s highest office have traditionally done. Instead he has said his businesses will be run by his own adult children.

Donald Trump Jr, Trump’s eldest child, has insisted that Trump’s holdings would go into a trust managed by him and his siblings Eric and Ivanka Trump.

“We’re not going to be involved in government,” Trump Jr told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in September on Good Morning America. “He wants nothing to do with [the company]. He wants to fix this country.”
Quote
Candace Smith  (@CandaceSmith_)
.@realDonaldTrump 3 eldest children + son-in-law are on his Presidential Transition Team Executive Committee: pic.twitter.com/SOXizI8rz7
November 11, 2016
Donald Jr, Eric and Ivanka Trump are all on the president-elect’s transition team executive committee, per ABC’s Candace Smith, as is Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner.

But according to regulators who have overseen potential conflicts of interests under two former presidents, Trump’s arrangements were unprecedented and present a host of issues.

This is in no way a blind trust, said Karl Sandstrom, former chairman of the Federal Election Commission (FEC), the regulatory body that oversees campaign finance, under Bill Clinton and George W Bush. “A blind trust is not anywhere near the same. You don’t still have access to the decision being made. That’s why you put assets in and don’t just have someone else manage the company,” he said. Trump’s assets will instead apparently remain united under his company, and operated under his name even if he is not directly in charge.

“Reagan spent some time in the private sector but he certainly wasn’t a CEO,” said Robert Lenhard, also a former FEC chair, appointed by George W Bush. “He wasn’t operating a set of companies like Trump is. Most of our presidents have come out of political careers – Eisenhower’s time out of office was mostly a hiatus between the military and the presidency.”

Trump owns hotels in Chicago, New York City, Las Vegas, Waikiki and, most recently, in Washington DC, just down Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House. As with any hotel chain, the Trump Organization will oversee power, water, maintenance, security, billing and any number of other logistical details that will now essentially be negotiated between the provider and the family of the president.

Abroad, Trump holds properties in Istanbul, where his election was met with satisfaction by that country’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, as well as Mumbai, Vancouver and Seoul, among many others. With Trump’s children running his businesses, there is also the matter of their bearing his name, and thus the name of the president, anywhere in the world when they arrive to negotiate leases and construction deals.

From his financial filings, the future US leader also appears to be a shareholder or beneficiary of several entities headquartered abroad, among them Excel Venture LLC in the French West Indies, and Caribusiness Investments SRL, based in the Dominican Republic. How Trump’s holdings in those countries will affect US relations with them remains to be seen; both are notable for their use in finance to avoid taxes. Trump has promised to cut the rate for repatriating cash into the US as an incentive for others who, like him, keep taxable funds overseas.

In Azerbaijan, Trump has a real estate project he said was “on hold” during the presidential campaign. His partner in the endeavor was Anar Mammadov, son of the Iranian transportation minister, Ziya Mammadov, who was accused in diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks in 2010 of laundering money.

In Russia, where Trump’s election has been met with congratulations by President Vladimir Putin, Trump worked closely with the Russian-born American financier Felix H Sater, managing director of the New York-based firm Bayrock LLC. Sater and Bayrock founder Tevfik Arif worked closely with Trump and others in his organization. In a deposition, Trump said that he had discussed “numerous deals all over the world” with Arif, and that Arif had brought potential Russian investors to meet Trump at his office, according to a report in the New York Times.

Bayrock was examined closely during a lawsuit filed by its former finance director, Jody Kriss; the Times said the firm had “occasionally received unexplained infusions of cash from accounts in Kazakhstan and Russia”.

Also in Russia, there are Trump’s ties to Paul Manafort, who ran his campaign from March to August. Manafort, who helped to install Putin ally Viktor Yanukovych as president in Ukraine, was named in a corruption investigation by a Ukrainian authority working with the FBI.

Then there is the matter of the president-elect’s stock portfolio. Trump has holdings in Dakota Access pipeline company Energy Transfer Partners. In his first 100 days, Trump has pledged to remove every impediment to the pipeline, which has been the subject of protests violently suppressed by police in North Dakota. He also owns stock in Facebook, whose CEO Mark Zuckerberg posted that he was “feeling hopeful” on Wednesday, and in Bank of America – he has promised to deregulate the banking industry.

Michael Cohen, Trump’s attorney, defended Trump’s post-election business plans on Thursday. Speaking of Trump’s family, he said: “They’re really intelligent. They’re really qualified. That’s why he really didn’t run in 2012, because they were younger by four years,” he told CNN.

While conflicts of interest may cause scandals for the president, they are unlikely to add to his long list of legal woes. In 1982 the supreme court gave Richard Nixon “absolute immunity” to prosecution for most kinds of crimes committed while in office, setting a precedent for administrations to come. “The president’s absolute immunity is a functionally mandated incident of his unique office, rooted in the constitutional tradition of the separation of powers and supported by the Nation’s history,” wrote Justice Lewis Franklin Powell in the majority opinion, adding that “diversion of his energies by concern with private lawsuits would raise unique risks to the effective functioning of government”.

As checks on that immunity, Powell wrote, “There remains the constitutional remedy of impeachment, as well as the deterrent effects of constant scrutiny by the press and vigilant oversight by Congress. Other incentives to avoid misconduct may include a desire to earn re-election, the need to maintain prestige as an element of Presidential influence, and a President’s traditional concern for his historical stature.”

Those checks and balances are likely to be tested when the business mogul-turned-president takes office. Public officials below the president and vice-president are subject to conflict of interest rules. “The standards of conduct are government-wide with respect to conflicts of interest, and they are to be found in the code of federal regulations, and whether those basic rules are going to apply throughout from the top down,” Sandstrom said. “How do you enforce rules on others that you don’t abide?”

Since images don't show up in quotes, here's the tweeted image with a list of folks on Trump's transition team:

Spoiler

Free press-hating """""libertarian""""" billionaire Peter Thiel being on Trump's transition team is perhaps enough cause for concern, considering this is a President-elect who wants to "open up" libel laws. I'll leave these here.

Thiel is also the founder of Palantir, a data-mining company that's one of the biggest defense contractors, and whose primary customer is the US Intelligence Community. Several years ago, Palantir was involved in a plot to smear folks who could hurt their business, specifically WikiLeaks and Glenn Greenwald.

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I'm going go try to save this botched abortion of a thread:

High-ranking Democrats Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer have both endorsed Keith Ellison as DNC chair.

Peggy Noonan wrote a good op ed on this subject prior to the election, and I'll post it here later.
It's later.

P-please?

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Serious / Re: MSNBC takes the Red Pill
« on: November 14, 2016, 08:35:03 AM »
I always used to doubt the "liberal MSM" meme until recently. One of the few perks of this election, for me, is the media being exposed and having to reflect on its behavior. They decided Hillary would be our next President, that Trump didn't have a chance in hell of winning. They ran a rigorous campaign against the guy, with little regard for whether the Claim of the Week™ was even an honest one, or just grasping for straws, while underreporting issues damaging to Hillary such as her leaked emails.

I'm digressing here, but I'd also say the Trump campaign didn't respond properly either, at the least--they seemed to prefer revoking press access to events, instead of releasing official statements asking for retractions or corrections. It's bizarre to me that the Trump campaign didn't issue their own fact-checking of sorts, because that would have brought attention to specific instances of bias (Steph Molyneux did a better job of this than the Trump campaign ever did.)

But going back on topic here, I'm glad the media is forced to have an about-face. Hopefully their future coverage of a Trump presidency will be a bit more balanced.

216
Serious / Re: Sep7agon's favorite television host weighs in on you-know-who
« on: November 14, 2016, 08:12:56 AM »
Ah, I forgot this other tab I had open. It's a moot point bringing up the khan family to attack Trump, when their son was killed in the war that Hillary Clinton voted for.
I'm no fan of Hillary, but people should be allowed to be wrong about an issue and change their stance. Her vote for Iraq does little to validate Trump's despicable attacks on the Khan family.

There was yet another tab, when Trump talked about "opening up the libel laws" I'm pretty sure he was referring to New York Times Co. v. Sullivan Which effectively allowed the media to attack him the entire campaign without facing repercussions.
Great job putting words in his mouth. He never said anything of the sort.

Furthermore, considering that Trump won the election after all, he'd have an incredibly difficult time arguing in court that the media's campaign against him damaged him.

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Serious / Re: Mike Pence didn't support gay conversion therapy
« on: November 13, 2016, 04:51:39 PM »
While Pence certainly doesn't have the best record on LGBT rights, I'm struggling to find evidence that he supports conversion therapy.

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YouTube

http://sep7agon.net/serious/don't-normalize-trump-simply-because-he-won/
Quote
(This is the first of many ways that Trump's supporters will attempt to silence and demonize their opposition over the next four years.)
Nobody is trying to silence the opposition. People like Icy, President Obama and most of the political class have been totally reasonable. They've been critical of Trump from the go, but are willing to accept the loss and their position, and act like rational human beings for the next four years.

The fact of the matter is that our entire political structure (one I don't even like that much) relies entirely on the general understanding that its methods of election, appointment and regulation are legitimate. When the losing side begins to deny the legitimacy of those things just because it doesn't like the results, that political structure is undermined.

Donald Trump is not going to kill you, send you away or hurt you. He is not going to restrict your political freedoms. You have been indoctrinated by two years of propaganda and hyperbolic rhetoric into thinking that the US has been taken over by a neo-Nazi in some kind of illegal coup. The simple truth of the matter is that Donald Trump, as well as his supporters, genuinely wants to Make America Great Again. Whether or not his plans for doing this are going to work is a matter very much up for debate, but it is quite apparent (to those willing to unplug their ears and take their hands away from their eyes) that the man really does mean well for this country and its inhabitants.

Stop acting like a child. Obama is not a Muslim communist who wants Islam to take over the United States. Donald Trump is not a fascist who wants to exterminate nonwhites and liberals.
WOW. LOL.

Orange Hitler campaigned sixteen months on a platform that flatly advocated the dismissal of most constitutional rights for a safer society. I'm sooner going to take Trump at face value than believe some deranged Internet poster (who perhaps a year or two ago was adamantly against government overreach) who habitually puts words in Trump's mouth. I'm going to expect the worst and hope for the best.

If I'm wrong about him, I'll be the first to admit it, you have my word. But as of right now, I have zero reassurances from the president-elect himself that he isn't going to do this stuff.
Trump is more like a modern Andrew Jackson than Putin or Hitler. I sincerely doubt he's going to be that bad.
I hope you're right.

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Gaming / Re: Pokemon Thread (Massive Spoilers Page 49 and Beyond!)
« on: November 13, 2016, 12:16:47 AM »
Cosmog is fuggin cute



In other news, I've been trying to finish up Yellow on VC. I need to raise my pokes' levels before I'm comfortable taking on Koga or Sabrina, but I haven't even gone to Saffron yet, so there's still plenty of trainers to fight. The Safari Zone has been occupying most of my time recently.

I didn't bother saving TMs to do Yellow's tedious Missingno. glitch. This is a comfy run with the four starters. Jolteon is ready to take over for Pikachu if it becomes too much of a burden, but Pika's been taking regular steroid injections (vitamins and rare candies) so I'm not too concerned.

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What did Obama have against Churchill anyway?
His grandfather was tortured by the British during the Mau Mau Rebellion.
Oh wow, uh, can't say I blame him.

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I don't see how a Supreme Court ruling is required to make a case for/against constitutionality.
It isn't, but it would be nice for your argument to have some kind of legal substance. All it is so far is "this policy is related to to a specific religion, therefore I think it violates my personal conception of the First Amendment."

1A prevents Congress from making any law elevating or prohibiting the practice of a given religion within the United States; I see no conflict here with the idea of preventing people of a certain religion from entering the country, especially not since this is already legal under federal law.

You need something better than "because I say so".
Oh. Fair enough, I was being lazy.

I believe religious beliefs are protected by the First Amendment, and the government mostly cannot take that into account when making or enforcing a law or policy decision. An exception would be, say, a religious exemption from the draft.

I'd say that in order for the government to not choose a favorite religion, it must therefore also be barred from choosing a least favorite religion, so to speak. Barring entry to the country on the basis of their religion would be invalid; banning entry based on country of citizenship would be permissible, politics of it aside.

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What did Obama have against Churchill anyway?

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banning Muslims from entering the country (First Amendment)
Nope. Not unconstitutional.

As for the rest, has SCOTUS actually ruled on these issues or are you just superimposing your personal assessments over your republic's institutions, again?
Federal law != automatically constitutional in any way

I don't see how a Supreme Court ruling is required to make a case for/against constitutionality. Regardless, a Supreme Court ruling isn't even necessarily the last word forever and ever, Amen.

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You mean exactly what Clinton's been doing? Don't forget what happened under the Obama administration with her as secretary of defense, or her outright rejection of the second amendment.
*Secretary of State. I know what you meant though.

I haven't defended Clinton for a while by now, but it's not like I expected you to know that. Her email scandal was the turning point for me. She made a deliberate effort to skirt State Department transparency laws. Her idea of a "gun buyback program" was, to my knowledge, literally taking away guns and compensating those affected.
Quote
'm still opposed to government overreach. The difference is that a year ago I considered the existence of a government to be overreach. I've calmed down quite a bit in that respect.
The lie detector test determined: that was a lie.

Unless you want to count them ALLEGEDLY aiding Wikileaks in exposing institutional corruption, which would have been a goddamn service to the people of this country.

Quote
Except, you know, every single comment he has made since winning.
Making Mexico pay for a wall as retribution for a state-sanctioned effort to undermine our country? You're delusional if you think anything has changed.

225
flatly advocated the dismissal of most constitutional rights for a safer society
Where?
Among others: Forcing Apple to unencrypt a phone (Fourth and Fifth Amendments), banning Muslims from entering the country (First Amendment), infliction of torture as punishment (Fifth and Eight Amendments), opening up libel laws (First Amendment), mass surveillance (First and Fourth Amendments)

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YouTube

http://sep7agon.net/serious/don't-normalize-trump-simply-because-he-won/
Quote
(This is the first of many ways that Trump's supporters will attempt to silence and demonize their opposition over the next four years.)
Nobody is trying to silence the opposition. People like Icy, President Obama and most of the political class have been totally reasonable. They've been critical of Trump from the go, but are willing to accept the loss and their position, and act like rational human beings for the next four years.

The fact of the matter is that our entire political structure (one I don't even like that much) relies entirely on the general understanding that its methods of election, appointment and regulation are legitimate. When the losing side begins to deny the legitimacy of those things just because it doesn't like the results, that political structure is undermined.

Donald Trump is not going to kill you, send you away or hurt you. He is not going to restrict your political freedoms. You have been indoctrinated by two years of propaganda and hyperbolic rhetoric into thinking that the US has been taken over by a neo-Nazi in some kind of illegal coup. The simple truth of the matter is that Donald Trump, as well as his supporters, genuinely wants to Make America Great Again. Whether or not his plans for doing this are going to work is a matter very much up for debate, but it is quite apparent (to those willing to unplug their ears and take their hands away from their eyes) that the man really does mean well for this country and its inhabitants.

Stop acting like a child. Obama is not a Muslim communist who wants Islam to take over the United States. Donald Trump is not a fascist who wants to exterminate nonwhites and liberals.
WOW. LOL.

Orange Hitler campaigned sixteen months on a platform that flatly advocated the dismissal of most constitutional rights for a safer society. I'm sooner going to take Trump at face value than believe some deranged Internet poster (who perhaps a year or two ago was adamantly against government overreach) who habitually puts words in Trump's mouth. I'm going to expect the worst and hope for the best.

If I'm wrong about him, I'll be the first to admit it, you have my word. But as of right now, I have zero reassurances from the president-elect himself that he isn't going to do this stuff.

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It hasn't even been a week. I think people are allowed a bit of time to come to grips with it. It happens every election.
I don't recall anything nearly this childish happening after Bush 2 or Obama.
Bush and Obama also didn't agree with a proposal to make Muslim Americans wear special identification.
That sounds familiar


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Serious / Re: Don't normalize Trump simply because he won
« on: November 12, 2016, 10:16:22 PM »

>http://images.gawker.com/187f0jpy0ki7wjpg/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800.jpg
>gawker.com

what did he mean by this

What normalisation? His election is significant precisely because it is strikingly abnormal.
The notion that he hasn't campaigned on an authoritarian platform with little regard for civil liberties, which is putting it nicely.

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YouTube

http://sep7agon.net/serious/don't-normalize-trump-simply-because-he-won/
Quote
(This is the first of many ways that Trump's supporters will attempt to silence and demonize their opposition over the next four years.)
Quote
One of the falsehoods in the Clinton speech was the implied equivalency between civil resistance and insurgency. This is an autocrat’s favorite con, the explanation for the violent suppression of peaceful protests the world over.

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Serious / Don't normalize Trump simply because he won
« on: November 12, 2016, 08:25:06 PM »
We've all heard this line by now--many members of this site have peddled it, too--that since Donald Trump won the election, we should just shut up and give him the benefit of the doubt, as if that excuses all of his dangerous rhetoric over the past 16 months. (This is the first of many ways that Trump's most ardent supporters will attempt to silence and demonize their opposition over the next four years.) A man who finds himself in ideological agreement with the autocrats of the world is not mentally fit for the presidency. Trump has shown no signs of backing down from his rhetoric, either, so why should we roll over and take it? Here's a tip: we should not.
Quote
Autocracy: Rules for Survival 
Masha Gessen

“Thank you, my friends. Thank you. Thank you. We have lost. We have lost, and this is the last day of my political career, so I will say what must be said. We are standing at the edge of the abyss. Our political system, our society, our country itself are in greater danger than at any time in the last century and a half. The president-elect has made his intentions clear, and it would be immoral to pretend otherwise. We must band together right now to defend the laws, the institutions, and the ideals on which our country is based.”

That, or something like that, is what Hillary Clinton should have said on Wednesday. Instead, she said, resignedly,
Quote
We must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead. Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power. We don’t just respect that. We cherish it. It also enshrines the rule of law; the principle [that] we are all equal in rights and dignity; freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values, too, and we must defend them.
Hours later, President Barack Obama was even more conciliatory:
Quote
We are now all rooting for his success in uniting and leading the country. The peaceful transition of power is one of the hallmarks of our democracy. And over the next few months, we are going to show that to the world…. We have to remember that we’re actually all on one team.
The president added, “The point, though, is that we all go forward with a presumption of good faith in our fellow citizens, because that presumption of good faith is essential to a vibrant and functioning democracy.” As if Donald Trump had not conned his way into hours of free press coverage, as though he had released (and paid) his taxes, or not brazenly denigrated our system of government, from the courts and Congress, to the election process itself—as if, in other words, he had not won the election precisely by acting in bad faith.

Similar refrains were heard from various members of the liberal commentariat, with Tom Friedman vowing, “I am not going to try to make my president fail,” to Nick Kristof calling on “the approximately 52 percent majority of voters who supported someone other than Donald Trump” to “give president Trump a chance.” Even the politicians who have in the past appealed to the less-establishment part of the Democratic electorate sounded the conciliatory note. Senator Elizabeth Warren promised to “put aside our differences.” Senator Bernie Sanders was only slightly more cautious, vowing to try to find the good in Trump: “To the degree that Mr. Trump is serious about pursuing policies that improve the lives of working families in this country, I and other progressives are prepared to work with him.”

However well-intentioned, this talk assumes that Trump is prepared to find common ground with his many opponents, respect the institutions of government, and repudiate almost everything he has stood for during the campaign. In short, it is treating him as a “normal” politician. There has until now been little evidence that he can be one.

More dangerously, Clinton’s and Obama’s very civil passages, which ended in applause lines, seemed to close off alternative responses to his minority victory. (It was hard not to be reminded of Neville Chamberlain’s statement, that “We should seek by all means in our power to avoid war, by analyzing possible causes, by trying to remove them, by discussion in a spirit of collaboration and good will.”) Both Clinton’s and Obama’s phrases about the peaceful transfer of power concealed the omission of a call to action. The protesters who took to the streets of New York, Los Angeles, and other American cities on Wednesday night did so not because of Clinton’s speech but in spite of it. One of the falsehoods in the Clinton speech was the implied equivalency between civil resistance and insurgency. This is an autocrat’s favorite con, the explanation for the violent suppression of peaceful protests the world over.

The second falsehood is the pretense that America is starting from scratch and its president-elect is a tabula rasa. Or we are: “we owe him an open mind.” It was as though Donald Trump had not, in the course of his campaign, promised to deport US citizens, promised to create a system of surveillance targeted specifically at Muslim Americans, promised to build a wall on the border with Mexico, advocated war crimes, endorsed torture, and repeatedly threatened to jail Hillary Clinton herself. It was as though those statements and many more could be written off as so much campaign hyperbole and now that the campaign was over, Trump would be eager to become a regular, rule-abiding politician of the pre-Trump era.

But Trump is anything but a regular politician and this has been anything but a regular election. Trump will be only the fourth candidate in history and the second in more than a century to win the presidency after losing the popular vote. He is also probably the first candidate in history to win the presidency despite having been shown repeatedly by the national media to be a chronic liar, sexual predator, serial tax-avoider, and race-baiter who has attracted the likes of the Ku Klux Klan. Most important, Trump is the first candidate in memory who ran not for president but for autocrat—and won.

I have lived in autocracies most of my life, and have spent much of my career writing about Vladimir Putin’s Russia. I have learned a few rules for surviving in an autocracy and salvaging your sanity and self-respect. It might be worth considering them now:

Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says. Whenever you find yourself thinking, or hear others claiming, that he is exaggerating, that is our innate tendency to reach for a rationalization. This will happen often: humans seem to have evolved to practice denial when confronted publicly with the unacceptable. Back in the 1930s, The New York Times assured its readers that Hitler’s anti-Semitism was all posture. More recently, the same newspaper made a telling choice between two statements made by Putin’s press secretary Dmitry Peskov following a police crackdown on protesters in Moscow: “The police acted mildly—I would have liked them to act more harshly” rather than those protesters’ “liver should have been spread all over the pavement.” Perhaps the journalists could not believe their ears. But they should—both in the Russian case, and in the American one. For all the admiration Trump has expressed for Putin, the two men are very different; if anything, there is even more reason to listen to everything Trump has said. He has no political establishment into which to fold himself following the campaign, and therefore no reason to shed his campaign rhetoric. On the contrary: it is now the establishment that is rushing to accommodate him—from the president, who met with him at the White House on Thursday, to the leaders of the Republican Party, who are discarding their long-held scruples to embrace his radical positions.

He has received the support he needed to win, and the adulation he craves, precisely because of his outrageous threats. Trump rally crowds have chanted “Lock her up!” They, and he, meant every word. If Trump does not go after Hillary Clinton on his first day in office, if he instead focuses, as his acceptance speech indicated he might, on the unifying project of investing in infrastructure (which, not coincidentally, would provide an instant opportunity to reward his cronies and himself), it will be foolish to breathe a sigh of relief. Trump has made his plans clear, and he has made a compact with his voters to carry them out. These plans include not only dismantling legislation such as Obamacare but also doing away with judicial restraint—and, yes, punishing opponents.

To begin jailing his political opponents, or just one opponent, Trump will begin by trying to capture of the judicial system. Observers and even activists functioning in the normal-election mode are fixated on the Supreme Court as the site of the highest-risk impending Trump appointment. There is little doubt that Trump will appoint someone who will cause the Court to veer to the right; there is also the risk that it might be someone who will wreak havoc with the very culture of the high court. And since Trump plans to use the judicial system to carry out his political vendettas, his pick for attorney general will be no less important. Imagine former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani or New Jersey Governor Chris Christie going after Hillary Clinton on orders from President Trump; quite aside from their approach to issues such as the Geneva Conventions, the use of police powers, criminal justice reforms, and other urgent concerns.

Rule #2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality. Consider the financial markets this week, which, having tanked overnight, rebounded following the Clinton and Obama speeches. Confronted with political volatility, the markets become suckers for calming rhetoric from authority figures. So do people. Panic can be neutralized by falsely reassuring words about how the world as we know it has not ended. It is a fact that the world did not end on November 8 nor at any previous time in history. Yet history has seen many catastrophes, and most of them unfolded over time. That time included periods of relative calm. One of my favorite thinkers, the Jewish historian Simon Dubnow, breathed a sigh of relief in early October 1939: he had moved from Berlin to Latvia, and he wrote to his friends that he was certain that the tiny country wedged between two tyrannies would retain its sovereignty and Dubnow himself would be safe. Shortly after that, Latvia was occupied by the Soviets, then by the Germans, then by the Soviets again—but by that time Dubnow had been killed. Dubnow was well aware that he was living through a catastrophic period in history—it’s just that he thought he had managed to find a pocket of normality within it.

Rule #3: Institutions will not save you. It took Putin a year to take over the Russian media and four years to dismantle its electoral system; the judiciary collapsed unnoticed. The capture of institutions in Turkey has been carried out even faster, by a man once celebrated as the democrat to lead Turkey into the EU. Poland has in less than a year undone half of a quarter century’s accomplishments in building a constitutional democracy.

Of course, the United States has much stronger institutions than Germany did in the 1930s, or Russia does today. Both Clinton and Obama in their speeches stressed the importance and strength of these institutions. The problem, however, is that many of these institutions are enshrined in political culture rather than in law, and all of them—including the ones enshrined in law—depend on the good faith of all actors to fulfill their purpose and uphold the Constitution.

The national press is likely to be among the first institutional victims of Trumpism. There is no law that requires the presidential administration to hold daily briefings, none that guarantees media access to the White House. Many journalists may soon face a dilemma long familiar to those of us who have worked under autocracies: fall in line or forfeit access. There is no good solution (even if there is a right answer), for journalism is difficult and sometimes impossible without access to information.

The power of the investigative press—whose adherence to fact has already been severely challenged by the conspiracy-minded, lie-spinning Trump campaign—will grow weaker. The world will grow murkier. Even in the unlikely event that some mainstream media outlets decide to declare themselves in opposition to the current government, or even simply to report its abuses and failings, the president will get to frame many issues. Coverage, and thinking, will drift in a Trumpian direction, just as it did during the campaign—when, for example, the candidates argued, in essence, whether Muslim Americans bear collective responsibility for acts of terrorism or can redeem themselves by becoming the “eyes and ears” of law enforcement. Thus was xenophobia further normalized, paving the way for Trump to make good on his promises to track American Muslims and ban Muslims from entering the United States.

Rule #4: Be outraged. If you follow Rule #1 and believe what the autocrat-elect is saying, you will not be surprised. But in the face of the impulse to normalize, it is essential to maintain one’s capacity for shock. This will lead people to call you unreasonable and hysterical, and to accuse you of overreacting. It is no fun to be the only hysterical person in the room. Prepare yourself.

Despite losing the popular vote, Trump has secured as much power as any American leader in recent history. The Republican Party controls both houses of Congress. There is a vacancy on the Supreme Court. The country is at war abroad and has been in a state of mobilization for fifteen years. This means not only that Trump will be able to move fast but also that he will become accustomed to an unusually high level of political support. He will want to maintain and increase it—his ideal is the totalitarian-level popularity numbers of Vladimir Putin—and the way to achieve that is through mobilization. There will be more wars, abroad and at home.

Rule #5: Don’t make compromises. Like Ted Cruz, who made the journey from calling Trump “utterly amoral” and a “pathological liar” to endorsing him in late September to praising his win as an “amazing victory for the American worker,” Republican politicians have fallen into line. Conservative pundits who broke ranks during the campaign will return to the fold. Democrats in Congress will begin to make the case for cooperation, for the sake of getting anything done—or at least, they will say, minimizing the damage. Nongovernmental organizations, many of which are reeling at the moment, faced with a transition period in which there is no opening for their input, will grasp at chances to work with the new administration. This will be fruitless—damage cannot be minimized, much less reversed, when mobilization is the goal—but worse, it will be soul-destroying. In an autocracy, politics as the art of the possible is in fact utterly amoral. Those who argue for cooperation will make the case, much as President Obama did in his speech, that cooperation is essential for the future. They will be willfully ignoring the corrupting touch of autocracy, from which the future must be protected.

Rule #6: Remember the future. Nothing lasts forever. Donald Trump certainly will not, and Trumpism, to the extent that it is centered on Trump’s persona, will not either. Failure to imagine the future may have lost the Democrats this election. They offered no vision of the future to counterbalance Trump’s all-too-familiar white-populist vision of an imaginary past. They had also long ignored the strange and outdated institutions of American democracy that call out for reform—like the electoral college, which has now cost the Democratic Party two elections in which Republicans won with the minority of the popular vote. That should not be normal. But resistance—stubborn, uncompromising, outraged—should be.

November 10, 2016, 5:26 pm

 

231
Shit like this is p dumb

"Trump won the election so I guess the left will literally dissolve and reform now"
Posts like this are even dumber.

"Yh let's just ignore the fact we've been handing the far right the keys to the most powerful institutions on the planet lalala can't hear you all repuplithugs are racists and sexists hhaha X^D"

You guys want to avoid a second Trump term? A little bit of self reflection and engagement with the electorate goes a long way.
Did someone drop you on your head as a child? I couldn't make a bigger straw man if I tried.

232
Don't you know if you disagree with kupo and his successful self you're an idiot and deserve to die.
lmao

233
The Flood / Re: Viagra headaches are terrible
« on: November 11, 2016, 10:33:13 PM »
Being pathetic really sucks doesn't it
Idk you're fat and Asian, you tell me dawgy

You're the one growing bitch tits from the steroids so don't be calling me fat
that's not a denial

You can fuck off too Stay Puft
19 pounds

234
Gaming / Re: Pokemon Thread (Massive Spoilers Page 49 and Beyond!)
« on: November 11, 2016, 10:26:01 PM »
guess I can't expect much from the company that needed two tries to get the Wii U right
game freak =/= nintendo
I guess

They both own Pokémon, however.

Remember, this is Game Freak we're talking about: The same company that went from some of the best games in the series in BW2 to the rushed garbage that was X and Y.
I guess

235
Nah but it was totally cool when the corrupt people who like abortion and gay marriage had that power!

Fucking ridiculous overreaction coming out of the butthurt battalion.
But it wasn't 'cool'. The first article I linked is entirely about this.

Please elaborate how concerns of unprecedented, unchecked executive powers is an 'overreaction'. Furthermore, Greenwald's complained about this kind of stuff long before Trump ever ran for office.

The only thing ridiculous here is your idiotic post. For the sake of everyone here, stop killing our brain cells.

. The most radical Presidential candidate in recent memory
There is nothing radical about Donald Trump. He's the most centrist figure in American politics since Bill Clinton was in power. He just says mean things about people he dislikes.
Executing whistleblowers, banning encryption, banning an entire class of people based solely on their religion, going after terrorists' (likely innocent) families, banning press from events, and accusing Mexico of a state-sanctioned effort to undermine our country through our immigration system are the exact opposite of """"moderation""""

You're the one who thinks Russia should undermine sovereign democratic elections, so your definition of "radicalism" should be taken with a grain of salt.

236
Serious / Re: The Case Against Democracy
« on: November 11, 2016, 08:57:19 PM »
authoritarian shills go and stay go

237
Before it's too late.

(I'm too tired to write up a lengthy intro to these pieces so I'll just post them with a tl;dr.)

1) Trump will inherit the executive branch at the peak of its power. Democrats' foreign policy 180 under Obama can be thanked for that.

Spoiler
Quote
Glenn Greenwald: Trump will have vast powers. He can thank Democrats for them.

Liberals liked executive authority as long as Obama wielded it. Now they've set a precedent.

Liberals are understandably panicked about what Donald Trump can carry out. “We have a president-elect with authoritarian tendencies assuming a presidency that has never been more powerful ,” Franklin Foer wrote this past week in Slate. Trump will command not only a massive nuclear arsenal and the most robust military in history, but also the ability to wage numerous wars in secret and without congressional authorization; a ubiquitous system of electronic surveillance that can reach most forms of human communication and activity; and countless methods for shielding himself from judicial accountability, congressional oversight and the rule of law — exactly what the Constitution was created to prevent. Trump assumes the presidency “at the peak of its imperial powers,” as Foer put it.

Sen. Barack Obama certainly saw it that way when he first ran for president in 2008. Limiting executive-power abuses and protecting civil liberties were central themes of his campaign. The former law professor repeatedly railed against the Bush-Cheney template of vesting the president with unchecked authorities in the name of fighting terrorism or achieving other policy objectives. “This administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we provide,” he said in 2007. Listing an array of controversial Bush-Cheney policies, from warrantless domestic surveillance to due-process-free investigations and imprisonment, he vowed: “We will again set an example for the world that the law is not subject to the whims of stubborn rulers.”

Yet, beginning in his first month in office and continuing through today, Obama not only continued many of the most extreme executive-power policies he once condemned, but in many cases strengthened and extended them. His administration detained terrorism suspects without due process, proposed new frameworks to keep them locked up without trial, targeted thousands of individuals (including a U.S. citizen) for execution by drone, invoked secrecy doctrines to shield torture and eavesdropping programs from judicial review, and covertly expanded the nation’s mass electronic surveillance.

Blinded by the belief that Obama was too benevolent and benign to abuse his office, and drowning in partisan loyalties at the expense of political principles, Democrats consecrated this framework with their acquiescence and, often, their explicit approval. This is the unrestrained set of powers Trump will inherit. The president-elect frightens them, so they are now alarmed. But if they want to know whom to blame, they should look in the mirror.

Obama’s approach to executive power flipped so quickly and diametrically that’s it is impossible to say if he ever believed his campaign-era professions of restraint. As early as May 2009, Jack Goldsmith, a Justice Department official under George W. Bush, celebrated Obama’s abandonment of his promises to rein in these authorities, writing that “the new administration has copied most of the Bush program, has expanded some of it, and has narrowed only a bit.” He added that the “Obama practices will be much closer to late Bush practices than almost anyone expected in January 2009.”

By putting a prettier liberal face on these policies, and transforming them from a symbol of GOP radicalism into one of bipartisan security consensus, the president entrenched them as permanent fixtures of the American presidency. As Goldsmith put it, Obama’s actions were “designed to fortify the bulk of the Bush program for the long-run.”

Liberals vehemently denounced these abuses during the Bush presidency. From 2001 through 2008, Democrats called them the embodiment of tyranny, an existential threat to democracy, a menacing expression of right-wing radicalism. “America’s Constitution is in grave danger,” Al Gore warned in a widely praised 2006 speech on civil liberties. Bush had become “the central threat that the founders sought to nullify in the Constitution, an all-powerful executive, too reminiscent of the king from whom they had broken free.” In one 2007 poll, 57 percent of Democrats said they wanted the Guantanamo Bay prison camp to be closed.

But after Obama took office, many liberals often tolerated — and even praised — his aggressive assertions of executive authority. It is hard to overstate how complete the Democrats’ about-face on these questions was once their own leader controlled the levers of power. According to a 2012 Washington Post-ABC News poll, 53 percent of self-identified liberal Democrats and 67 percent of moderate or conservative ones now supported keeping Guantanamo Bay open. After just three years of the Obama presidency, liberals sanctioned a system that allowed the president to imprison people without any trial or an ounce of due process.

In fact, a new Democratic Party orthodoxy took hold under Obama: the right of a president to detain people, or even assassinate them, without charges or a whiff of judicial oversight. This included even American citizens. “We do not believe that [Anwar] al-Aulaqi’s U.S. citizenship imposes constitutional limitations that would preclude the contemplated lethal action” by the military or the CIA, a Justice Department memo proclaimed in 2010.

Democrats (who had bitterly complained in 2005 about mere eavesdropping without court approval) not only failed to contest this assassination program but ultimately expressed their support for it. “Fully 77 percent of liberal Democrats endorse the use of drones,” according to the write-up of that 2012 Post-ABC poll. Support drops “only somewhat when respondents are asked specifically about targeting American citizens living overseas, as was the case with Anwar al-Awlaki, the Yemeni American killed in September in a drone strike in northern Yemen.”

This same dynamic — Democrats endorsing vast expansions of executive powers — repeated itself time and again, both within the national security realm and outside it. Obama issued numerous signing statements purporting to nullify legal obligations, invoked radical secrecy privileges to avoid lawsuits, eroded long-standing Miranda rights for terrorism suspects, waged a war in Libya even after Congress voted against its authorization and pioneered novel means of using executive orders to circumvent congressional (i.e. democratic) approval in a wide array of domestic policy arenas.

And of course, Obama aggressively expanded the system of mass surveillance, including on U.S. soil, that had been secretly implemented by the National Security Agency after 9/11. Once Edward Snowden showed the world what had been created, many Democrats became the leaders in protecting this spying system from meaningful limits, reform or oversight. When, in the immediate aftermath of the Snowden revelations, a bipartisan coalition of House members headed by Reps. John Conyers (D-Mich.) and Justin Amash (R-Mich.) sought to impose serious limits on the NSA’s domestic spying, the White House turned to then-Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) to lead the successful effort to stop them.

Civil liberties advocates and proponents of limited executive authority tried everything they could think of to persuade and cajole Democrats to rediscover their concerns about these abuses and once again become allies in the battle to constrain government power. But those efforts were largely futile. Partisan loyalties easily subordinated any commitment to the principles that they had purported, in the Bush years, to support.

The problem such advocates encountered was the same one they’d faced during the Bush presidency when trying (and failing) to persuade putatively small-government conservatives to oppose these expansions of presidential power: namely, many people are perfectly content to have such authority vested in leaders they trust, and fear them only when a politician from the opposing party wields them.

As such, the tactic of last resort to induce Democrats and liberals to oppose such policies was to ask them to think about how, one day, these powers could be in the hands of someone other than a benevolent, kind-hearted, trustworthy progressive like Barack Obama. Instead, Democrats were urged, imagine that a right-wing authoritarian, or a lawless demagogue, or a petty, vindictive tyrant won the presidency and inherited the framework of unrestrained, unchecked powers that Republicans implemented and Democrats expanded.

That day has arrived. With Trump looming, there is much talk of uniting across ideological and partisan lines to impose meaningful limits on executive authority, and those efforts are justified. But, as progressives were repeatedly warned, a matrix of power that has been defended and legitimized for 15 years by both parties will be very difficult to uproot.


2) The USG's expansive national surveillance complex is largely guided not by laws, but by policies. To elaborate: law is what the government is forced to do; policy is what the government chooses to do. Policy is the only thing preventing rampant, unchecked abuses of these powers.

Here's snippets of what Snowden warned about, for context:

YouTube

YouTube

And now the article:
Spoiler
Quote
Donald Trump Will Have His Eye on You

Edward Snowden warned us about the abuses of our national security state. Now look who's in charge of it.

By Graham Vyse

Edward Snowden was right. Glenn Greenwald was right. The American Civil Liberties Union was right.

Throughout the Obama administration and indeed long beforehand, critics of the nation’s ever-expanding national security state have been grabbing Americans by the lapels and shaking them, trying to raise consciousness about the dangers. Their efforts too often have been in vain. Now, with president-elect Donald Trump readying for power, those dangers are more immediate than ever.

As Wired worried last month in a piece titled, “Imagine if Donald Trump Controlled the NSA”:

Quote
America has watched Donald Trump praise foreign dictators from Kim Jong Un to Vladimir Putin, vow to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate his opponent, Hillary Clinton, if he’s elected, and call for Russian hackers to dig up Clinton’s emails. “I wish I had that power,” he later said in a campaign speech. “Man, that would be power.” If that statement didn’t sufficiently reveal Trump’s lust for surveillance capabilities, he reportedly listened in on phone calls between staff and guests at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach in the mid-2000s.

This expansion intensified under President George W. Bush, with warrantless wiretaps, secret kidnappings, and torture, but much of it continued under President Barack Obama, tainting a generally progressive eight years in the White House. As Greenwald—the investigative journalist who helped Snowden blow the whistle on National Security Agency wrongdoing—wrote at The Intercept on Wednesday:

Quote
Both political parties have joined to construct a frightening and unprecedentedly invasive and destructive system of authoritarian power, accompanied by the unbridled authority vested in the executive branch to use it.

As a result, the president of the United States commands a vast nuclear arsenal that can destroy the planet many times over; the deadliest and most expensive military ever developed in human history; legal authorities that allow him to prosecute numerous secret wars at the same time, imprison people with no due process, and target people (including U.S. citizens) for assassination with no oversight; domestic law enforcement agencies that are constructed to appear and act as standing, para-militarized armies; a sprawling penal state that allows imprisonment far more easily than most Western countries; and a system of electronic surveillance purposely designed to be ubiquitous and limitless, including on U.S. soil.

After the experience of the Bush years, it’s shameful that Democrats didn’t hold Obama to a higher standard on these issues. His unprecedented war on whistleblowers should have been a red flag, and Democrats should have pressured him to make more than modest NSA reforms after Snowden’s disclosures. The surest way to defend civil rights and civil liberties is to structure the government apparatus so that it can’t easily violate them.

In fact, it’s not too late for Democrats to do something about this. The Atlantic’s Conor Friedersdorf, another voice in the wilderness on this issue, has called on lame-duck Obama to act now, and the nonprofit Fight for the Future made three specific requests of the president for his final weeks in office:

Quote
1. Disclose mass surveillance programs, their plans for expansion, and their legal justification. America needs to know what we’re up against.

2. Delete the data stored on Americans, and demolish the physical infrastructure needed to collect this data. If Trump wants to spy on hundreds of millions of Americans, make him build this capacity from scratch.

3. Pardon Edward Snowden, to encourage more whistleblowers to come forward if these systems continue growing out of control. Wired asked former NSA counsel Susan Hennessey what exactly Trump could do as president. She said he could, in the magazine’s words, “rescind the executive actions of President Obama aimed at reforming the NSA after Snowden’s revelations,” and he could also “refocus American spying efforts to take the agency’s eyes off Russia and instead target that country’s adversaries, like Georgia, Ukraine, or even the European Union.”

“We shouldn’t underestimate the importance of the intelligence community’s high level priorities,” Hennessey told Wired, “and the ability of the president to shift them.”

The impending Trump presidency is also setting off alarm bells for civil libertarians, and they’re gearing up to fight back. The ACLU released a report on July on why Trump represents “a one-man constitutional crisis,” and after Trump’s election the group slapped his face on their homepage with the words “SEE YOU IN COURT” (next to a “DONATE” button).

Anthony Romero, the group’s executive director, warned Trump against pursuing his unconstitutional campaign promises, including the Muslim ban, the immigrant deportation force, bringing back torture and “opening up” libel laws to sue the press.

“If you do not reverse course and instead endeavor to make these campaign promises a reality, you will have to contend with the full firepower of the ACLU at every step,” he said in a statement. “Our staff of litigators and activists in every state, thousands of volunteers, and millions of card-carrying supporters are ready to fight against any encroachment on our cherished freedoms and rights.”
The question is whether it will be enough.

“Broadly speaking,” Hennessey told Wired, “the only way to tyrant-proof the White House is to not elect a tyrant.”

All available evidence suggests it’s too late for that.

238
The Flood / Re: Viagra headaches are terrible
« on: November 11, 2016, 07:57:53 PM »
Being pathetic really sucks doesn't it
Idk you're fat and Asian, you tell me dawgy

You're the one growing bitch tits from the steroids so don't be calling me fat
that's not a denial

239
Gaming / Re: Pokemon Thread (Massive Spoilers Page 49 and Beyond!)
« on: November 11, 2016, 07:16:33 PM »
GAME FREAK WHAT ARE YOU DOING!?

>Bottlecaps are hard as shit to get
>They don't actually raise your IVs, they just raise your stats to compensate, so no legit 6IV Ditto for you!
>In order to even use them, you have to grind your Pokemon to level 100 with Gen V exp scaling
>Super Training and Horde training were removed, so there's no easy way to train EVs
>Super Training replacement is shit and takes forever just to EV train one Pokemon
>DexNav was also removed, so no known way of getting pokemon with their HAs as of yet

Yeah, looks like I'm going to be doing most of my team building in ORAS. They really dropped the ball on this, but at least it looks like this shouldn't affect me too much since most of the new Pokemon are going to be shitmons anyway.

GAME FREAK, YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM USING PKHEX, NOT EMBRACE IT!
what the FUCK

the only benefit I can think of is that pokes can now get maxed stats and keep using a specific Hidden Power

guess I can't expect much from the company that needed two tries to get the Wii U right 

240
The Flood / Re: what a disgusting fucked up society
« on: November 11, 2016, 01:58:13 PM »
I want to shoot white people in their dicks but even though I'm a really good shot I'll probably miss

Don't people from Italian decent have the biggest dicks?

Asking for a friend

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