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Messages - Elai
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9001
« on: March 01, 2016, 04:17:57 PM »
What consenting people do behind closed doors is none of your business whatsoever. I already admitted that a secular mindset wouldn't be capable of defining something 2 consenting adults do to each other as immoral. That being said, I can still say whatever the fuck I want to about it. There's nothing and no one saying I can't. You literally called it shameful. That's a judgment call on someone's character.
Cheating is shameful. Screwing someone over is shameful. Doing something to your own body is never shameful.
I didn't make any comment on anybody's character, only their actions.
9002
« on: March 01, 2016, 04:13:14 PM »
You know you can actually have sex with someone while you enjoy their personality and character, and (gasp) you don't need to be married to do it? Uh, yeah. Obviously.
9003
« on: March 01, 2016, 04:12:08 PM »
An ideal living environment would be non-conception in the first place. Are you an anti-natalist yet? Does that mean it's the only one that works? It works the best and should be the ultimate goal of a parent. There's no sense running around judging same-sex and single parents just because they're not the optimal situation. Did no such thing, but okay. Anyone can look at a marriage from a distance, wag their finger and say "tsk tsk, should've stayed together, better for the child." Not what I'm saying. People change.
People get tired of other people they've made commitments to. People are shit.
9004
« on: March 01, 2016, 04:09:36 PM »
Making a judgment call on someone's fucking character just because they're doing something that grosses out your fragile emotions says more about your character. I did no such thing, and I don't really care. What people do behind closed doors is none of your business whatsoever. Sure it is. If someone is being beaten to death in privacy, against their will, I want to know about it. Holy shit, what the hell? Are you really going to bring biology into any sort of social morality platform? It doesn't matter what animals do in the wild, there's this crazy new concept called equality. I don't think you're actually a sexist or anything, but goddamn, this little comment was dumb. It would still be perfectly reasonable, given our biological heritage, to think that way. Under intellectual inspection, sure, it's a flawed mindset that I avoid. I was just stating where the notion came from.
9005
« on: March 01, 2016, 03:56:51 PM »
There's absolutely nothing wrong with single parents. They have far more bravery and patience than the kiddos who point fingers at them to look smart. There's nothing wrong with it. So you're saying that single-parentage is an ideal living environment for a child to grow up in? Thanks for admitting I look smart, though.
9006
« on: March 01, 2016, 03:53:08 PM »
Or because you value the relationship you'll eventually have with your wife more than your sexual cravings.
You don't even need to be religious to want to wait until marriage -- I certainly didn't.
9007
« on: March 01, 2016, 03:51:41 PM »
You know it's bad when PSU has the good, socially tolerant opinions and Prehistoric is the one stuck in the past. You know it's bad when you agree with the village idiot.
9008
« on: March 01, 2016, 02:55:31 PM »
Eliab will change his mind once he ends up like I was, 23 and still didn't get anything.
If I change my mind on premarital sex, or sex at all, I'm wrong. Quote me on that.
9009
« on: March 01, 2016, 09:33:22 AM »
No one knows how they are going to feel 20-30 years down the road. I currently love my wife, I'd die for her. But is that how I'll feel in 30 years? Who knows? You? If you cannot commit to someone for life, don't. That's what marriage is -- a commitment to another person until death (and some would argue even past that.) If you are not capable of this, don't do it. Even as a practicing christian, the Bible has little to no effect on marriages today. And for Christians, it absolutely should.
9010
« on: March 01, 2016, 09:31:42 AM »
what could possibly be done about single parent homes? -censuring of promiscuous behaviour -discourage premarital sex, and subsequently -place a heavier emphasis on marriage's significance in our culture Or alternatively, just don't have kids. A.K.A., the best option, both morally and pragmatically.
9011
« on: March 01, 2016, 09:25:26 AM »
My point is you can't be complaining about it when its always going to happen. I absolutely can complain about it. There are loads of things that always happen we should be working towards ending -- single-parentage is one of them. Nothing wrong with getting divorced, some people aren't right for each other. "Not be right for each other" is something you should figure out before you become bound to a marriage. This is what I'm talking about -- people today do not take marriage seriously enough. Not to mention, the Bible is very clear on divorce.
9012
« on: March 01, 2016, 09:14:15 AM »
I was at my parents wedding. I cried so hard I was removed from the church.
Same, bro. I was the ring bearer.
9013
« on: March 01, 2016, 09:12:56 AM »
It shouldn't but it ALWAYS will happen.
Divorce and death are 2 reasons why.
Okay -- what's your point?
9014
« on: March 01, 2016, 08:59:52 AM »
Agreed, when couples divorce they should throw their children into a meat grinder. Lol. Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Parents shouldn't be divorcing, either. Seriously though that is a very childish comment to make, no one wants to raise a child on their own but what other options do they have? Put their children in an already over crowded adoption system? No, raising the child on their own is preferrable to foster care. Still doesn't mean single-parentage is ideal and should happen. It's not like couples have kids with the plan of getting divorced later. Plus an unhappy married environment is even worse for kids than just getting divorced.
Sure. But people should also think more carefully when getting married and subsequently having kids.
9015
« on: March 01, 2016, 08:57:30 AM »
lol
You're telling me that a single-parent scenario is the ideal environment for raising a child?
Of course its not ideal. Nothing in life is ideal. But I've seen great kids come out of single parent homes.
I agree. Single-parentage is not ideal. It shouldn't happen. That's all I said.
9016
« on: March 01, 2016, 08:44:49 AM »
lol
You're telling me that a single-parent scenario is the ideal environment for raising a child?
9017
« on: March 01, 2016, 08:27:44 AM »
Single parents can raise kids so I don't see why a same-sex couple can't.
Single parents shouldn't raise kids.
9018
« on: March 01, 2016, 08:26:06 AM »
ban single parents
Ban sex.
9019
« on: March 01, 2016, 08:25:04 AM »
I want a better understanding of the long-term effects and consequences before I can take a position.
Same boat.
9020
« on: March 01, 2016, 08:23:04 AM »
Sex is really good though. Can't really deny that fact.
Define "good".
A really great and amazing feeling you both share that you can't wait to share again.
I never denied that it felt good. It simply has to feel good or we wouldn't partake. I think it should be avoided, as it's dangerous, but that's really not something I'm capable of defending well.
9021
« on: March 01, 2016, 08:21:04 AM »
There's nothing shameful about it, either. But there is shame in being so insecure in your own self that you have to call people names and look down on them for things that are none of your business. Having kids outside the confines of a marriage is a very real and shameful consequence of promiscuity. And even if you're sterile, you're still a slave to your desires. I would still call this shameful. Which, I mean, from a secular standpoint I can't really say is right or wrong (which I've already admitted to). I'm a human being, and I've been given the ability to make judgement calls. I'm going to. And by the way, if you're going to call girls sluts if they sleep with X number of people per week, you have to call guys sluts if they also sleep with that number, or else you're just a hypocrite.
1. Which part of my post implied I was only referring to girls? 2. Biologically, females are defined by the quality of their mates, whereas males are defined by the quantity of their mates. That being said, Verbatim already defended my statement.
9022
« on: March 01, 2016, 08:12:39 AM »
In order to believe that, you must have a good reason. You gave your reasons, and I wasn't impressed, so I brought up what I consider to be a better overall reasons: Tax benefits. Okay. That's another good reason, for sure. The reasoning behind my answer to Inglourious was that he was asking for a reason to refrain from sex until marriage. My personal feelings toward sex in general do not reflect most people's, so it seems a bit ludicrous to even bring them up when he didn't ask. My answer was that it strengthens the relationship, which is the primary reason for me. Tax breaks are not a benefit of refraining from premarital sex, they're a benefit of getting married at all. You understand this, and so do I. So what?
So, people who have had sex prior to getting married should be banned from getting those tax exemptions?
What are you saying? No, of course not. I'm saying that tax breaks are not a reason you should wait for marriage to have sex. I thought this was perfectly clear. We're both steering the conversation in a certain direction for whatever reason, which is where the disconnect is occuring.
9023
« on: February 29, 2016, 11:42:07 PM »
What do you mean? I know Verb is a hard line atheist, so I am assuming you mean that you are not entirely convinced of the non-existence of God. I'm kind of a special case, here. I've accept Orthodox Christianity as my religious doctrine yet I can't seem to find a way to believe my God exists while remaining intellectually honest with myself. So in this sense (though I hate to label myself as such) I am a philosophically pessmistic atheistic orthodox Christian. A mouthful. He's frustrated that I'm even considering Christianity as a possibility, but uh, he doesn't really get why I'm doing it. He shouldn't be frustrated. You're not his protégé, and he's not your mentor. You make your own decisions, he doesn't have a say in the matter, and nor should he. He doesn't get to make you Verb Jr. and have you spout his bullshit if you don't want to.
I don't know what to make of this, and I don't really agree with most of it, but I appreciate you, uh, supporting me. I guess.
9024
« on: February 29, 2016, 11:32:50 PM »
Experience is more useful.
9025
« on: February 29, 2016, 11:31:04 PM »
I find it quite interesting that the moment Prehistoric starts to diagaree with you to a greater extent, you start acting like a jerk towards him.
You're an ass, Verb.
I don't even think we disagree. I just seriously have no idea what he's on about. He's just frustrated with me and my inability to reconcile with the idea of God. Little does he understand what and why I'm doing what I'm doing.
9026
« on: February 29, 2016, 11:27:26 PM »
No it isn't. It's about marital tax exemptions. Not... exemptions from tax exemptions, whatever the fuck it was you were even trying to say. The entire catalyst of this conversation was because you fundamentally misunderstood what Inglourious and I were talking about. Anyways. Tax breaks are given to both those married couples who engaged in premarital sex and those who didn't. That's what I'm trying to say. I was confused as to why you even brought this up in the first place, because it's so obvious and had nothing to do with my premarital sex bit. But now I know where the confusion lies. No, it applies to everyone. Logic is unbending--it doesn't change according to who you are or what you believe.
I agree. You and I have the right idea regarding sex -- that's the truth. The problem is, not everyone sees it that way. And I'm not going to be able to convince someone who enjoys sex that it's stupid because I think it's gross and a waste of time. You get a lot of shit for doing this and no offense but I'm going to use my own brand of persuasion to get my point across. Additionally, I don't know what you're getting so heated about. What's up with that?
9027
« on: February 29, 2016, 11:19:50 PM »
State your argument clearly so I know what you're getting at. Our conversation thus far has been centered around premarital sex, but you seem to be wanting to take it a different direction and that's confusing both of us.
9028
« on: February 29, 2016, 11:17:12 PM »
Who cares? Uh, me? Because that's what the topic is focused on? They're one in the same reason. The only reason to get married is if you plan to have a family. Period. Only for people like us. Not for everyone else. Your previous inability to concede that, but you've conceded that now. I was never incapable of conceding that, so. . .
9029
« on: February 29, 2016, 11:07:33 PM »
All sex is retarded and pointless.
All sex is retarded and pointless.
Promiscuity is disgusting, but there is nothing morally wrong with it. It's just gross, and that's all you're saying. Great. So what's the problem? I mean, it's not as though I haven't already admitted to it NOT being wrong from a secular viewpoint.
9030
« on: February 29, 2016, 11:06:10 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage#Taxation Are those who engage in premarital sex somehow exempt from the tax breaks marriage provides, once actually married? I think not. It appears you were the one who was confused. Inglourious's question was asking why I think people should wait for marriage to have sex -- not why we should get married. Reasons to get married, and I thought I that was made abundantly clear. Well no, like I said above, the original topic was why I think one should wait for marriage to engage in sex, but I'm game to change the subject. Ultimately, there isn't really a great reason to get married. Theistically, Paul even instructs those of us who can avoid marriage, to do so. But most of us can't, and the guidelines of that path are very clear as well: premarital sex is a no go. This makes a lot pragmatic as well as religious sense. At least, to me. But atheistically, the only reason would be tax benefit. Which isn't a great reason to commit to something as culturally significant as marriage.
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