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Messages - Elai
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4081
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:40:59 AM »
yeah, revert to nonexistence
death
one of his two options was reverft to nonexistence
yeah, i interpret that as death
not necessarily suicide, but doing what you need to do on this planet and then reverting to nonexistence (dying) when your time here is up—and hopefully the mark you made will have made the planet an ever so slightly better place to live in
that's how i interpret it too i was just making it easier for him to clarify by using his diction
4082
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:39:54 AM »
I drive a car with 300k miles on it and that uses premium gas. So yeah. ouch. yeah that's a bit of a killer there. And the article literally says that the suicide rate is double the general population. what i meant was that you will probably want to kill yourself no matter what job you're at lol Here's a website that shows the cost differences for various things between Canada and the US, including living expenses. Yeah, so not really comparable then. I'm glad that you're living (relatively to others in the same generation) well. I don't think it's wrong to think many of our generation complain about mild inconveniences while living in relative luxury. My issue is the idea that we're wrong for being upset about conditions out of our control.
well i don't think you're wrong for being upset. i'm upset. i just think that because you are upset, you should feel compelled to break the cycle and stop having kids, and finish your life off. though statistically, the main reason the reproduction rate is going down in first worlds in because they don't want to bring people into this messed up world, which is encouraging.
4083
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:35:00 AM »
so lets say i can picture it. i still don't believe we can achieve it, so nonexistence is still preferrable.
which is why being an antinatalist is all that makes sense
the "perfect existence" has such an iota of a chance of happening (especially because it involves literally changing the fabric of the universe) that it's not an achievable goal in any way
But that doesn't mean that it's not what life should look like. That's 100% how everything should be, no matter how fictitious it is. But if you look at the two goals (one, bring about the perfect existence; two, revert to perfect nonexistence), one makes far more sense to pursue.
yeah, revert to nonexistence
right
i need to know if we're on the same page
if you can't decipher which one I believe makes more sense from the tone and context of the post then I'm not going to help you lol
cut me some slack man i've been working since 7 this morning and i've ad like 300 conversatins with just you in this thread so i can't keep track i'm assuming you mean revertng to non-existence is the more realistic goal we should strive for
4084
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:33:44 AM »
I enjoy these kinds of discussions. Nice change of pace from the usual buzzing I hear around the world.
good thing i said something that annoyed you. i'll try to do that more often.
you guys have been my OTP since like 2015
OTP?
shipping term, one true pairing
i'm half-joking
oh yeah, since the metal gear thread right or was it before that
4085
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:33:14 AM »
yeah, revert to nonexistence
death
one of his two options was reverft to nonexistence
4086
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:31:46 AM »
I still disagree that tumblr/first world problems people are annoying though
I'm never going to be annoyed by you if you're right, no matter how well or terribly you present yourself about it
then you have levels of patience i cannot even dream of
4087
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:31:10 AM »
I enjoy these kinds of discussions. Nice change of pace from the usual buzzing I hear around the world.
good thing i said something that annoyed you. i'll try to do that more often.
you guys have been my OTP since like 2015
OTP?
4088
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:29:51 AM »
so lets say i can picture it. i still don't believe we can achieve it, so nonexistence is still preferrable.
which is why being an antinatalist is all that makes sense
the "perfect existence" has such an iota of a chance of happening (especially because it involves literally changing the fabric of the universe) that it's not an achievable goal in any way
But that doesn't mean that it's not what life should look like. That's 100% how everything should be, no matter how fictitious it is. But if you look at the two goals (one, bring about the perfect existence; two, revert to perfect nonexistence), one makes far more sense to pursue.
yeah, revert to nonexistence right i need to know if we're on the same page
4089
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:28:57 AM »
I enjoy these kinds of discussions. Nice change of pace from the usual buzzing I hear around the world.
good thing i said something that annoyed you. i'll try to do that more often.
4090
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:28:22 AM »
i'm basing this all on my own experience therein lies the rub
i don't want to condescend, but you clearly don't have a lot of perspective, but you seem somewhat aware of that
well, yeah. i've given you all every chance to explain yourself, because i only know what i've seen and heard.
4091
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:26:14 AM »
okay, so let's say the collective baby boomer generation admits they fucked up. what then? Hopefully that means an attempt at easing the issues arising from their mistakes, like not continually passing legislature that hurt us and canceling programs that help us.
there are no "first world problems" that are enjoyable by any stretch of the imagination. It's a good thing I didn't say that. I said that they are enjoyable compared to the issues that are still present because of humanity's unwillingness to help others.
i don't really think it's fair to compare issues like that, though. i'm actualy really tired and we're having like 12 different conversations right now so i'm not sure where i'm going with this one lol
4092
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:23:42 AM »
what other methods did you try
and i've talked to other canadians who share your thoughts so i don't think it's that.
networking, making connections with people, befriending people who have relatives in some industry, physically asking people if i can work for them, etc.
shit doesn't work for everyone bro—maybe if you keep hearing about it, it's not as easy as you think, and it's actually an endemic, nationwide problem that you're having an annoyingly glib attitude about
fair enough. maybe i'm just more charming then i realise, i don't know. you've given me something to look into a little harder, at least. that's not something i can picture. class said it better than i did.
i can't picture it either, but you just need to have a consistent and robust definition of "perfection" [/quote] so lets say i can picture it. i still don't believe we can achieve it, so nonexistence is still preferrable.
4093
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:20:47 AM »
Why didn't you take those offers? >make $170 a week
>pay a third of that for gas
>rest doesn't cover food or bills, much less savings
I wonder.
i'm literally all anecdotes here but, i drive more than that daily i don't spend more than 60 a week on gas, and my truck is an old 6 cylinder so imagine how much better a somewhat modern 4 cylinder would be like. "With over 11 million workers, construction is one of the largest industries in the U.S. The industry has one of the highest rates of work-related injuries and suicides, and also has a high prevalence of musculoskeletal pain among its workers. A 2012 study found that 40% of construction workers over age 50 had chronic back pain. Another 2012 study found that injured workers were 45% more likely to be diagnosed with depression than non-injured workers. Other recent studies have found construction workers to have double the suicide rate of the general population."
-Harvard article on the issues of US construction workers doesn't really address what i said about working for 5 years to help pay for stuff. and of course a job where you're moving around bricks and shit is going to have higher rates of injuries in comparison to packing up a cheeseburger and handing it through a window. the whole suicide thing should be pretty constant no matter where you're working, though. Welcome to the United States, where living in one of the most backwards states in the country still costs more than minimum wage to move out. i mean, that's compariable to living in a toronto appartment, so are you guys in a big city or something canada's housing market isn't fantastic either but i don't know how it fares in comparison to yours. i'm basing this all on my own experience, i don't have time to do anything else. I'm not arguing that point; I'm arguing against the mentality of "it's what we've been dealt, so deal with it". Fuck that idea, I'm going to be pissed that our lives are harder than those before us because of those before us. I'll live with it (because suicide is bad), but I won't deal with it.
i guess there's not much more to say, then.
4094
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:13:17 AM »
Every generation has shit; out of the recent generations, we have a lot of shit to deal with that is caused by a generation that refuses to admit that they fucked up. okay, so let's say the collective baby boomer generation admits they fucked up. what then? Life sucks because we've made it that way. "First World Problems" are issues, yeah, but they are issues that are enjoyable compared to the fact that that people are still starving to death and dying of preventable diseases. We can deal with the minor complaints that arise from imperfect upper middle-class living. but that's no reason shrug our shoulders at every serious fault that's arisen from our historical unwillingness to help others.
there are no "first world problems" that are enjoyable by any stretch of the imagination. just cuz some kid dies of a painful disease does not mean little johnny living in kansas enjoys tripping over his shoelaces while running. i've lost track. how am i shrugging my shoulders
4095
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:05:38 AM »
i don't want to exist in a perfect reality because it would be boring.
oh fuck off with this
no, a perfect reality wouldn't be boring, because then it wouldn't be perfect
that's not something i can picture. class said it better than i did.
4096
« on: June 11, 2017, 12:04:20 AM »
I spent two years trying to find a non-minimum wage job that would be truly willing to work around my school schedule; instead, most offers were 30m away and would only offer minimum wage (with the possibility of getting a 10 cent pay raise every 6 months). Why didn't you take those offers? I'm glad Canadian parents are so wonderful about it. My parents (and grandparents) told me I was going to college, without even the option of taking a year off after high school (and was chewed out when I brought up the idea). That's wrong, then. But do you know why? Previous generations were told that a degree was required to live "well"-- and since every parent reasonably wants their kids to have a good life-- practically force them to attend college. We've grown up shown cartoons of janitors, construction workers, and other non-degree jobs as being miserable and sad people because, historically, they've worked harder for less than degree jobs. People from those generations haven't left us the option of just "forgoing" the degree. I couldn't get my Dad's job without a degree (that he doesn't have), I couldn't get my grandmother's job without a degree (that she doesn't have). Do you know what job I could get without a degree that some member of my family has? The construction job that my 70 year old grandfather has (who has multiple medical complications that arose from it). I know all this. Someone has to build roads and buildings, why can't you? No one is saying you have to work in construction for 50 years. It pays well, and you'll be okay doing 5 years of it. I will direct you to all of my friends who don't live at home, who are struggling to make rent at an apartment that they share with three other friends and work two jobs; my co-workers, who work two/three jobs and from 7am to 11pm just so they don't get behind on rent. then they're paying too much in rent.[/quote] what kind of place are these people living in that costs a lowballed minumum wage salary x2 for every person living in the home just to break even I'm glad you're in a place that you find acceptable, but that doesn't mean everyone else is. We shouldn't find it fair to be stuck here either, so fuck you for thinking I can't think that's bullshit. But will I work with it? It's all I have, so I guess I just have to. But we shouldn't be stuck with "I guess I have to"; we should have something better than that.
um, i don't find any of this acceptable? it's unacceptable, that's why we should cease procreating.
4097
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:56:29 PM »
then maybe you are all doing something wrong. maybe filling applications out is the wrong way to go about it. 100 applications over the course of a year and you don't think i've tried other methods
my whole stance is built upon my completely opposite experience with the job markets than everyone i talk to online. i don't believe it. i got extremely lucky... 4 times? 5 times? over the span of a year? sorry, there's something you aren't telling me. maybe it's just the fact that guys in the physical labour line of work prefer the personal conversation to the written application, idk.
i've gotten my friends jobs literally no problem too so idk what's going on here. that's what i'm asking from you.
i don't fucking know dude, maybe it's a canadian thing
what other methods did you try and i've talked to other canadians who share your thoughts so i don't think it's that.
4098
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:53:08 PM »
there is way too much fucking is-based mentality in the world
who gives a fuck about ises, shoulds are what matter
life should suck
life should be perfect
if life was perfect like nonexistence is (suffering not even being a concept) then it would be stupid to be an antinatalist
maybe in the sense that you're still breaking consent and forcing someone to exist, but existence would be preferable to nonexistence in that case anyway
yeah, but life can't be perfect, so your "should" is irrelevant.
Wrong, just because something can't happen doesn't mean it shouldn't. Life can't be perfect, which is why procreation is immoral. But the IS there doesn't fucking matter. Procreation shouldn't be immoral, because life should be perfect.
"hey guys i'm an antinatalist"
you're saying stuff i agree with, dude. you just like the idea of living more than i do because you're more narcissistic. i'd rather not exist than exist in a perfect reality.
believe me, I'm far from narcissistic
if anything, I have more passion for the world than you - not even cultures or sociological stuff, but just pure media and storytelling. Even the base idea of a story from thousands of years ago, the debate over whether they were "lies" or not, is so interesting.
idk why people continue with this narcissist meme, maybe my persona from 2014 but not me in reality
and why wouldn't you want to exist in a perfect reality? It's just as perfect as nonexistence, but you also get to experience pleasure. So in a way, more perfect than nonexistence.
i'm not trying to insult you by saying you're a narcissist. i don't want to exist in a perfect reality because it would be boring. human being cannot exist without suffering, so there's really no way of knowing what that would be like, and what i picture in my head is not worth it.
4099
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:49:57 PM »
filing several applications over short periods of time whenever, AKA how it works for most people
i've submitted over 100 applications before i landed a single job then maybe you are all doing something wrong. maybe filling applications out is the wrong way to go about it. no offense i really couldn't care less about your personal anecdotes on this issue, it doesn't change the fact that jobs on the whole are far too difficult to get for the majority of young people out of high school—and the ones we do get are so miserable and soul-sucking they induce suicidal thoughts
most people can't just ask—you got EXTREMELY lucky and you need to understand this
my whole stance is built upon my completely opposite experience with the job markets than everyone i talk to online. i don't believe it. i got extremely lucky... 4 times? 5 times? over the span of a year? sorry, there's something you aren't telling me. maybe it's just the fact that guys in the physical labour line of work prefer the personal conversation to the written application, idk. i've gotten my friends jobs literally no problem too so idk what's going on here. that's what i'm asking from you.
4100
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:44:54 PM »
Every job. Really. Every job?
Every job.
consider the possibility that you're a very fortunate person
Haven't you admitted to not wanting to work in physical labour?
just because i don't want to doesn't mean i haven't tried 20 or 30 times anyway
jobs aren't about what you want
define "tried"
i'm genuinely convinced you're all doing something wrong here. i've had no problem getting myself and my friends jobs. my first real job i literally just walked up to the guy and asked him if i could work for him.
it's almost like different regions have different job availabilities
yeah, sure, but they shouldn't be all that different. look further away from your area. i mean, i drive an hour to work for my job.
I have a job
and yeah, they are very different
I couldn't find shit for work when I was vacationing in MI, but there are tons of jobs here
i'm not talking about you.
4101
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:44:28 PM »
there is way too much fucking is-based mentality in the world
who gives a fuck about ises, shoulds are what matter
life should suck
life should be perfect
if life was perfect like nonexistence is (suffering not even being a concept) then it would be stupid to be an antinatalist
maybe in the sense that you're still breaking consent and forcing someone to exist, but existence would be preferable to nonexistence in that case anyway
yeah, but life can't be perfect, so your "should" is irrelevant.
Wrong, just because something can't happen doesn't mean it shouldn't. Life can't be perfect, which is why procreation is immoral. But the IS there doesn't fucking matter. Procreation shouldn't be immoral, because life should be perfect.
"hey guys i'm an antinatalist" you're saying stuff i agree with, dude. you just like the idea of living more than i do because you're more narcissistic. i'd rather not exist than exist in a perfect reality.
4102
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:42:44 PM »
Every job. Really. Every job?
Every job.
consider the possibility that you're a very fortunate person
Haven't you admitted to not wanting to work in physical labour?
just because i don't want to doesn't mean i haven't tried 20 or 30 times anyway
jobs aren't about what you want
define "tried"
i'm genuinely convinced you're all doing something wrong here. i've had no problem getting myself and my friends jobs. my first real job i literally just walked up to the guy and asked him if i could work for him.
it's almost like different regions have different job availabilities
yeah, sure, but they shouldn't be all that different. look further away from your area. i mean, i drive an hour to work for my job.
4103
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:40:15 PM »
there is way too much fucking is-based mentality in the world
who gives a fuck about ises, shoulds are what matter
life should suck
life should be perfect
if life was perfect like nonexistence is (suffering not even being a concept) then it would be stupid to be an antinatalist
maybe in the sense that you're still breaking consent and forcing someone to exist, but existence would be preferable to nonexistence in that case anyway
yeah, but life can't be perfect, so your "should" is irrelevant.
4104
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:39:37 PM »
Every job. Really. Every job?
Every job.
consider the possibility that you're a very fortunate person
Haven't you admitted to not wanting to work in physical labour?
just because i don't want to doesn't mean i haven't tried 20 or 30 times anyway
jobs aren't about what you want
define "tried" i'm genuinely convinced you're all doing something wrong here. i've had no problem getting myself and my friends jobs. my first real job i literally just walked up to the guy and asked him if i could work for him.
4105
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:38:39 PM »
newsflash, life is a hole you're thrown into and expected to dig yourself out of.
newsflash, that's why life is immoral and so is procreation
gee it's almost like i've been an anti-natalist for like 3 years longer than you
no antinatalist would have this "life sucks but w/e, you'd better accept it and not complain young man!" attitude
that's because unlike most antinatalists, i'm actually not severally depressed and dysfunctional.
life not only sucks, and is designed to suck, but it should also suck so much that you're morally forced into not having kids because you cannot imagine putting anyone else through it.
that's fucking retarded
you should be morally forced into not having kids because you understand that nonexistence is perfect, and imposing a consciousness in a universe where suffering is even able to exist is throwing away that perfection
the two aren't incompatible
4106
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:37:38 PM »
newsflash, life is a hole you're thrown into and expected to dig yourself out of.
or say this as if it's acceptable
i never said it was acceptable, either it's not acceptable, that's why you should stop having kids
4107
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:37:05 PM »
there is way too much fucking is-based mentality in the world
who gives a fuck about ises, shoulds are what matter
life should suck
4108
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:36:30 PM »
Every job. Really. Every job?
Every job.
consider the possibility that you're a very fortunate person
Haven't you admitted to not wanting to work in physical labour?
4109
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:35:51 PM »
newsflash, life is a hole you're thrown into and expected to dig yourself out of.
newsflash, that's why life is immoral and so is procreation
gee it's almost like i've been an anti-natalist for like 3 years longer than you
no antinatalist would have this "life sucks but w/e, you'd better accept it and not complain young man!" attitude
that's because unlike most antinatalists, i'm actually not severally depressed and dysfunctional. life not only sucks, and is designed to suck, but it should also suck so much that you're morally forced into not having kids because you cannot imagine putting anyone else through it.
4110
« on: June 10, 2017, 11:33:31 PM »
The justification of "that's life" simply doesn't fly with me, really. The whole "that's just the way it is" is a terrible mindset if you ask me and just accepting it will always be like that is kinda shitty.
It's the same way Jim Crow laws worked. It's not that every single white was hating on the blacks and saw them as subhuman. A lot of people just had the mindset of "that's just the way it is" when seeing things like that. The fact it's sunken in as cultural norm is the part I vehemently disagree with.
I get what you're saying, and we should be striving to improve everyone's lives, but it is going to take an extroardinary amount of work to get there. We can't just sit back and say "This is how it should be, make it so." WE have to be the ones to make these changes, which is a very tall order in and of itself.
Personally, I know the shittier millennials find their lives, the more likely they are to adopt my anti-natalistic point of view, so I don't really care if things get better or not. Life is supposed to suck, anyway.
I'm speaking more from an idealistic standpoint, you're speaking more from a realistic one. I get that and like I said in my edit, partly agree with you. I also disagree with life having to suck. Honestly that view is most likely what makes millennials not want to work. "Life is going to be shit, I'm going to be working at a job I absolutely hate and not even make that much. Why should I even bother?" Hell I'm guilty of always thinking that. It's mostly the reason I'm going to college to hopefully get a career in something I don't hate (political science), along with voice acting as my "dream" job.
yeah, see, i've mostly given up on idealism in every sense. it's just too pointlessly depressing.
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