Except people aren't going to pledge to patreons that churn out one chapter a year

lol what

do you see the stupid shit that gets supported on patreon on a daily basis

Also your avatar

Shocker

He objectively lied about the Devil's Triangle, boofing, and pretty much every question Whitehouse asked him. Why are we supposed to believe him over Dr Ford?

Because there wasn't any physical evidence, therefore nothing should be done about it. I clearly know how our judicial system operates, can't you tell.

Details suck but I'm pretty happy with the anatomy.

No Trump supporter I know actually taking children away from their parents. No Trump supporters I know actually support grabbing women by the pussy. No Trump supporter I know would actually support the destruction of America that you and Challenger think is happening.

We're not "thinking" it's happening. This is what's happening. The United States' President is a puppet for Russia, and elects people to important positions of power, not based on competency, but on loyalty. That's "Mad King" shit, dude. Have some respect for your own country and history.

When they look at Trump, they see a man who is flawed but who also has the economy growing, a strong stance on foreign affairs, and a willingness to criticize allies for not pulling their weight.

The economy was growing essentially by the same quarterly numbers under Obama and no one on the Republican side gave a shit.

Am I the only one that thinks America doesn't need that much help in running the world? Democracy and the American way should be the number one export of your country.

They’re tired of constantly being told they’re responsible for the ailments of black people, then women, then gay people, then trans people, then immigrants, then everybody else and their mother.

I don't know what else to tell these people when they're being racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic and any other nonsense I'm leaving out. We have to call out these things, no matter how minute they may seem, to really get rid of them.

They’re tired of the identity politics.

As are a lot of leftists (myself included.)

So when a guy steps up and says everything they think and feel, it resonates a lot with the average person. They’re not thinking “this inspires me to hate Mexicans and women”. They’re thinking that Trump speaks for them.

Because he enables racism and predatory behaviour.

The point of this long winded explanation is not that Trump is a good president or that excuses can be made for some of the genuine horrible things that he’s done. But you should remember that people are people and relegating them to the one dimensional view you have of them is doing them and yourself a disservice

It just doesn't matter the good he's done because it is so drastically outweighed by the horrible and fucking retarded things he does on a day-to-day basis. Do you watch the news (genuine question)? I don't like MSM either (they just published these bullshit 2020 DNC numbers that made me roll my eyes.) but if you watch anything other than Fox News it's really hard to take anything this guy says seriously. Like has been already stated, if you can't distance yourself from an administration that's done all these horrible things despite the few good things he does for you, there's not much I can say in your favour. You're obsessed with your own problems and need to look outward. Republicans have been broken since Obama got elected a second time and are trying to win back the culture wars. But you can't do it with this guy in office.

I'd support Kanye West over any Democratic candidate.

oh so you STUPID stupid

lol I'm literally starting a cushy hotel job the day after tomorrow, also I have 1.3k subs on YT so probs about to start monetizing my channel soon

life is beautiful

Link?

I am by far the craziest person here tbh

Lol. Good one. I have schizophrenia. I tried to kill two people when I was under ten years old. You have no idea the people you're fucking with. So just cool it. I am not making this up. You should never have never compared yourself to me in the first place. I smashed a kid in the head with a rock for less. He had to get stitches, and I spent the day laughing. His dad was an officer, and dropped the charges because his son was the one bullying me. Plus I was only six or seven. I literally have a hard time not fighting. I have to use every ounce of me to restrain myself. I don't deserve to be in a psycghe ward. Not when people did this to me. I haven't had a thought about anything other than harming someone in years. It doesn't make me feel. This is why I flip on you. I am supposed to be drugged oit of my mind at all times. Make sure you write Obama a thank you note.

I've never met a single Trump supporter who was also a good person.

And I’ve met very few individuals, probably like 5 my whole life, who I really believe don’t have it at all. They’re so interesting. It’s like their entire life is purely instinctual. Every action, word, etc all come from a place of instinct and not thought.

Were these "individuals" met at the zoo, or perchance, the pet store?

People like Challenger who have no ability to comprehend why some people may see things differently and then characterize them as stupid sheep who are beneath him is ironically funny and already have their answers if they would bother to look in a mirror

Challenger and I disagree all the time but I can attest he at least respects my point of view.

The issue here is that people who look at this administration without disdain are unreachable. They live in a bubble. There's really not much more beyond that.

When Hillary cheated to beat Bernie is when the Democrats lost the election. She had no right to be in the running.

There's an argument to be made that that's not what happened. Vox made a good video about it. It looked like "the establishment" pushed for Hillary because she inspires loyalty as a skilled leader, and those within "the system" wanted her to win because of her leadership style. She might have been a horrible candidate, but she might've made a great president.

At least, that's the narrative some people likr to push.

You can't possibly believe that the entirety of the millions who voted for Trump are some idiot hillbillies. It's just not accurate in any sense.

I didn't say that they were all dumbass rednecks. A lot of them were. The rest were other people swept up in the anti-establishment persona he had.

What is going to happen when you go after these people with hate and vitriol? How is blasting the voting base instead of trying to appeal to it going to get you the win?

Well for one, I don't think Hillary Clinton is suggesting we go after anyone with hate and vitriol. I don't like people who support Trump, but I'm not a politician (or American for that matter.)

But the thing is, you can completely disregard Trump's base and still win an election. Like I said earlier, the majority of the country agrees with democrats on almost every issue. The problem is getting voters to turn out on election day. Which you can do by getting people excited, and Hillary Clinton isn't someone who did that. I don't think that'll be a problem this time, but I've seen some scary videos that make me think I'm wishfully thinking.

People don't remember your ideas so much as they remember how you make them feel, and if you make voters feel like they are morons then they aren't going to support you.

That doesn't matter. Not only because of what I said above, but just think back at how Trump called the people of Iowa stupid, at an Iowa rally. You can call people stupid and degrade them and as long as you're general enough, people will think they are the exception.

If you want to get rougher with the politicians and try to turn trumps strategy against him. To create the perception that his lot are the elitists and that you're here to shake things up, I'd say you have a difficult task ahead of you. But if you just want to shit all over the voters themselves then I'd say you're digging your own political grave.

I don't think many people want the political establishment "shaken up" after seeing what that looks like for the last two years. I've seen liberals yearn for the days of George Bush in the White House. But I think what you're describing is a Michael Avenatti-type candidate, which is why he's been getting a lot of exposure recently.

Quote from: Eli on October 10, 2018, 06:06:22 PM

I assume you're a rational person with an ability to think critically, so why are you dealing in absolutes when it comes to the right? There may be politicians on the right that want essentially oppress others for their own personal gain, but there just as well can be and are those on the left who want to do the same. Nothing is so black and white. Focusing on each side as a collective instead of addressing people who identify with them as individuals isn't conducive to understanding the nature of each side with clarity.

Regardless, that position doesn't explain in any way how advocating for civility is somehow lacking in wisdom. You think it's because whichever side is uncivilized has an advantage over the side that isn't? I don't believe that at all for the very reason I laid out at the bottom of my post. All this hate and vitriol is radicalizing people at an alarming rate, driving away moderates who can help rein the radicals back in, and contributing to a growing divide within society that absolutely has the power to destabilize it, if history has taught us anything.

This isn't about some kumbaya cliche hippie nonsense, this is about upholding certain principles that make up the fabric of civilization. Responding to radicals by becoming radical in the opposite way may allow you to "win" against them for now, but what kind of society are you going to create in the process? And what is going to stop the other side from responding in kind and winning in the future?

These people that you seem to hate so much on the right, there are millions of them and they aren't going anywhere. Unless you want some violent authoritarian revolution in which you force them out of society, you have to deal with the fact that they are here and have the same power that you do to impact the way your country runs. Collectivizing them as scum of the earth instead of observing and confronting them as individuals isn't going to help sway anyone on their side, and more importantly it turns away moderates, who are more likely to see things your way, and can actually give your side a real advantage.

I don't expect that this is something we will come to an agreement on. It's really disheartening to see that so many on either side think this way.

It's just funny how you say in one thread (my other political thread in The Flood) that you care about the "here and now" or the reality of the situation, yet here you want to play around with idealistic nonsense. Yes, I'd love to return to how politics were conducted 30, 20, even 10 years ago. But when one side is not even on the same map as the other, there's nothing you can do to reach these people. People are being radicalised and yes that's a problem, but the BIGGEST problem we are facing is climate change and and the cyber invasion by the Russians, and the Republicans are doing nothing about either. We have some 60 years before Manhattan is underwater. Climate researchers stated recently that the first of many apocalpytic climate disasters could occur as soon as 2040. Think about that.

I would like to say that this tendency towards incivility in politics is an absolutely terrible idea in my eyes. Our society is becoming increasingly polarized and divided, and this idea that people should be uncivilized in their opposition is only going to exacerbate that.

That's an unbearably naive thing to say when one side was elected to run the country due to their incivility. When we have climate change and wealth inequality under control, then we can perhaps see a return to civil politics.

It'd be different if the disagreements between parties were things like what you think should be done about health food in schools or how much businesses should be paying taxes, not whether women have the right to abortion, or climate change is a hoax/is happening and there's nothing we can do about it so go ahead and pollute away.