Not that I want some criminals released back into society...

i wasn't until i saw this

i'd watch it though, it doesn't contain footage or anything

It's understandable that you made the switch after this video. It would be extremely difficult not to.

I thought you weren't a fan of Star Wars, Verb.

Unless this is meant to be funny or something (I didn't click the link because I'm avoiding all the trailers and stuff.)

remain outgoing or your'e going to fall into the deep pit a lots of us are in...

I'd rather know a shitty truth than an easy lie, personally.

But yeah, Jive is the forum jock, so I wonder how far this line of thinking will take him. He's a good guy, though.

Yeah I'll do the normal on my hunter.

Cool.

I want to do the hard on my warlock though

I'd love to help you out but my highest Light Level is 300 on my Titan.

If free will truly doesnt exist, and were essentially following a pre-destined life line then I think that a reform system is the only way to go, over any other system it would create a way to facilitate personal growth of the individuals.

If I'm understanding the argument correctly, the reasoning behind rehabilitation is that it is simply more ethical than placing them in a cell for the remainder of their sentence.

Personally, I don't really care for anyone's "personal growth".

Even if we do believe that nobody has true free will this isn't exactly contradictory, as one could commit crime prior to the education and skill development they face during incarceration. One of the biggest causes of crime is under education and poor upbringing. If can nullify one of those factors from an individual it could play a large role in them truly reforming.

Yeah. I never like that kind of answer. It just screams progressive, PC bullshit to me.

If someone commits a top-tier crime (murder, for example), I'm inclined to believe it wasn't because they didn't learn the pythagorean theorem in school, y'know? Perhaps upbringing is a bit more important in this instance but then again, I don't think people should be raising kids anyways.

You're lowkey a good poster. You should be more active.

Well, I would say context matters.  Like, if you found him in the act and killed him vs. killing him outside of the trial vs. having an executioner do it after he is found guilty.  Then intentions could come into play such as whether you simply used him as a scape goat for your pyschopathic fantasy or if you believed doing so prevents repeat offenses.

Well in that scenario, I didn't kill him to prevent him from killing again. I did it because I wanted vengeance (which I'm pretty sure isn't moral if I remember my superhero cartoons correctly.)

Like an Arkham Asylum sorta society?

Yeah, but without the corruption and on a larger scale.

Stochastic. Our minds are stochastic -- effectively random -- and so our will, while entirely deterministic, is effectively free and undetermined.

I have to wonder though how much of that is really in our control. If things are random, the element of choice still seems... not present.

It doesn't matter if they're in control of their actions or not--it's still our moral obligation to prevent them from doing bad things, which they are pre-ordained to do. I see no absurdity.

Of course, I'm not saying "yeah, whatever, they didn't choose to do that thing so let's let them off the hook."

I'm trying to reconcile the two ideas, and I'm not sure how to go about it.

Bingo. Like I always say--just because life is just a play doesn't mean you shouldn't read your script.

If these people aren't in control of their actions, how moral (ethical?) is confining them to a cell? Just seems absurd to me. Complete overhaul of the system (which is what I think Goji was getting at) seems to be like the best option from that point.

Free will not existing =/> people should use it as a justification in legal proceedings or any social structures which predicate themselves on agency.

But I mean, why not? It seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to say. If no one chooses to break the law, then why do we punish them for it? It isn't their fault.

I'm simply trying to make sense of the free will argument. It was something that came up in my law class -- once you admit that we don't make decisions, people are no longer held accountable for their actions (or something like that.)

...how does one reconcile our law and the punishment of criminals with that belief? If no one is truly in control of their actions, it's not their fault they're breaking the law.

Literally the only reason I've ever considered digital library:

Canada is literally the greatest country in the world.

It used to be America, though. I have a lot of respect for Colonial America.