Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 03, 2015, 11:37:16 PM

yo man i'm like third plat dxm right now

omg sycned that's amazing

how many mgs did you take? I took 780 but there was guaf in it yuck

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 03, 2015, 03:02:20 PM

Quote from: Flee on October 03, 2015, 02:37:58 PM

I've always wondered what your opinion on a country like Switzerland is. Not that I'm trying to make a comparison here between them and the US because its entirely different. People actually have a mature attitude towards guns and treat them seriously in Switzerland. Just curious on what your opinion on gun ownership in their case is since its related directly to their national defense.

Switzerland is pretty unique in the developed world. The only similar country with both high rates of gun ownership and generally low crime is Israel. From an academic point of view, these anomalies are pretty interesting.

Switzerland, in my opinion, does things pretty well. It has high rates of gun ownership and a lot of guns, but also treats guns in a completely different way than the US does. As you pointed out, the country has no standing army and relies on an actual militia made up out of the people. Because of this semi-universal mandatory army service, they are very capable of determining which people make the cut and which ones don't. A brief background check is one thing, but having someone go through military training and close evaluation for extended periods of time is something else entirely and gives a way more accurate insight in whether that person is capable of being a responsible gun owner. If you are either mentally or physically unfit to responsibly own and use a firearm, you'll not make it through the military training and won't be allowed to have a gun the way those who passed do.

As such, military training and militia service is a sort of sorting mechanism to separate the incapable from the capable. Taking that into consideration, I'd go out on a limb and say that the country may have high rates of firearm ownership, but also has some particularly strict gun control regulations. In order to obtain a firearm that isn't given out as a part of the militia, the person in question must show a permit that was granted to them by the government after thorough evaluation.

For example: all guns and their owners are registered, there is a limit on how much firearms a person can own, transfer of weapons and their components are heavily regulated and must be submitted to the government within a month, the purchase of ammunition is regulated just as heavily as the ownership and acquisition of guns, public carrying of guns is only allowed for those using it as part of the militia activities or those who have a special permit which requires an extraordinary reason to carry in public (for example: private security or special circumstances) and an additional examination on weapon handling and knowledge of the law, transporting guns is equally regulated and so forth. While the military does in fact issue a gun as part of the militia, it doesn't actually come with ammunition, is normally expected to be locked away at home and is held to very high standards of proper "military conduct and proper use of service weapons".

Considering all of the above, I don't think anyone familiar with the issue would claim that this is a gun owners utopia with guns for all. I have in fact had this discussion with a vehemently pro-gun person back on B.net. He brought up Switzerland as a reason why unfethered access to guns would be ideal. I basically told him the above system and asked him if he'd ever agree to that happening in the US. He immediately objected and blasted it as being extremely limiting and strict gun control that would fail miserably and result in massive crime surges. He stopped responding when I informed him that this was in fact the situation in his Swiss gun utopia.

That being said, even the strict regulations don't combat all of the problems that come with high rates of gun ownership. While Switzerland has low (violent) crime rates, it still has very high rates of suicide, almost all of which are commited with a firearm. It also predicts greater homicide of females, murder-suicides, serious accidental injury and other side-effects of the amount of privately owned guns, even if they are treated respectfully and with great responsibility. A commonly cited study of both Switzerland and Israel ultimately concluded that: "Compared with the US, Switzerland and Israel have lower gun ownership and stricter gun laws, and their policies discourage personal gun ownership. Swiss and Israeli gun ownership is rare, regulated stringently such as by putting the burden of proof on permit applicants to demonstrate a specific need for a gun, and neither country encourages gun ownership. The extensive gun control in both countries do not prevent guns from being associated with violent deaths, but increased gun control in the Israeli army may have reduced gun suicide. The evidence from Switzerland and Israel seems to concur with the public health literature finding" (which basically concluded that stricter gun control is almost universally preferable to loose gun control and easy access to firearms).

I personally see nothing wrong with a system like the Swiss one, but the country is unique in that aspect. It has a longstanding tradition of collective responsiblity and is extremely isolated from the rest of the world. The country is incredibly homogeneous when it comes to its citizens and has developed a working gun culture. As mentioned above, it still has plenty of issues, but so does every other system in the world. None are perfect and I would be a complete idiot to claim that what Belgium does is a flawless and brilliant solution that is somehow better than what the Swiss have ended up with.

To conclude, I'd say that Switzerland, to me, is an example of strict gun control. While there are a lot of privately owned guns in the country, obtaining, carrying, using, selling and keeping them is heavily regulated and subject to stringent requirements and conditions. This, in combination with the importance of their collective responsibility mindset and role of the militia in everone's lives, makes for a properly functioning system where guns are an accepted part of society. If anything, Switzerland reinforces the conclusion that strict gun control is a desirable policy and is preferable over easy access to firearms for virtually everyone, and that it's not the amount of privately owned guns that matters, but rather the way in which they are privately owned, used, carried, transfered and obtained. Switzerland illustrates both that a large amount of firearms does not necessarily result in a murderous and trigger happy society of criminals, and that strict gun control measures are beneficial and can coexist with an armed society.

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 03, 2015, 03:57:33 PM

Quote from: Carsonogen on October 03, 2015, 03:57:10 PM

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 03, 2015, 03:56:25 PM

Quote from: Carsonogen on October 03, 2015, 03:55:43 PM

Not a fan of Kubrick, tbh.

you might be the one person in the world that actually has shittier taste than Jim

Okay? I'm sorry for having a different opinion than you?

Jesus, this forum can be so insufferable sometimes.

yeah but your opinion is objectively incorrect

Okay? I don't like Kubrick movies. Get over it.

Quote from: SoporificSlash on October 03, 2015, 03:56:25 PM

Quote from: Carsonogen on October 03, 2015, 03:55:43 PM

Not a fan of Kubrick, tbh.

you might be the one person in the world that actually has shittier taste than Jim

Okay? I'm sorry for having a different opinion than you?

Jesus, this forum can be so insufferable sometimes.

Not a fan of Kubrick, tbh.