Quote from: TBlocks on July 05, 2015, 12:43:12 PM

Quote from: Snake Wilson on July 05, 2015, 12:38:01 PM

Quote from: TBlocks on July 05, 2015, 12:34:30 PM

Next time I see you remind me to lend you "Better to have never been" by David Benatar. It explains some of the stuff Verb's trying to get across.

The logic is flawless. The viewpoint is infallible if you believe in any kind of contemporary morality (which, I'm fairly sure you do). It just might be that Verb isn't explaining it all that well to you.

Very possible however I'm sensing my view of morality might differ quite a bit.

If you believe that making others suffer for your own happiness is a bad thing (I.E., taking someone else's candy bar because you'd rather eat it, even though they paid for it), than we have the same view of morality. Verb and I have... just thought it through to it's logical (and, admittedly, counterintuitive) conclusion.

Eh likely then. And yes counter intuitive it is.

Stop flaming each other. Any Scientist worth listening to will tell you that we simply don't have the knowledge on the creation of our Universe, and what might lie outside it, to definitively prove/disprove the existence of a deity. Same with what happens to our consciousness after (complete) brain death. As that's kind of a point of no return after which we wouldn't be able to communicate with the living world directly, there's no data to be gathered on the subject.

Any form of argument that, at this point in time, tries to definitively state (for or against) the existence of a Deity that created our universe, is conjecture that should be disregarded until proof beyond reasonable doubt is shown.

Very reasonable.

Quote from: TBlocks on July 05, 2015, 12:30:48 PM

But we don't hate it because that's life.

Then I hate life (and everyone else should, too). The reason I don't kill myself is because

1. Euthanasia is illegal
2. I can't be an advocate for anything that I believe in if I'm dead

That's a fairly miserable and sad existence that solely rests on you. You choose to feel distress about your situation.

Quote from: PSU on July 05, 2015, 12:24:48 PM

So what verby, you just never look to improve yourself if there is any kind of suffering or difficultly involved?

No, I do. But the fact that I have to is retarded. And I hate it. And you should, too.

But we don't hate it because that's life.
The fundamental difference seems to be in whether you believe suffering is a natural part of life.

Quote from: PSU on July 05, 2015, 11:40:27 AM

I suffered through football practices in order to get better.

I suffered through school in order to get and education.

I suffer through work in order to provide for my family.

NONE of this is suffering. None of it.

Losing your limbs is suffering.
Crippling illnesses are suffering.
Depression is suffering.

Physical pain, physical anguish is suffering.
Torture is suffering.

Football practice = physical pain though.

Generalizations, generalizations everywhere!

Good job.

Cheat.

That's a trick question!

Quote from: TBlocks on July 05, 2015, 12:37:07 AM

I guess what I'm trying to ask is "Do you think you can make the universe work "better" with your small and relatively insignificant view of how life should be?"

I don't know what you mean by "relatively insignificant view".

If you mean that it isn't a view held by most people, well, that's exactly the problem. We need to speak out and challenge irrational views, not sit back and let people continue to hold them.

Relatively insignificant in the way of how truly small we are compared to the universe. What I believe you and others have proposed is that ending another organism's life is morally wrong even if for survival yet there are organisms whose sole purpose is to do just that. Are they morally wrong in living the way they live?
It seems to be a totally counter intuitive idea than what most of the universe already lives by.

Any NHL game ever.

Quote from: TBlocks on July 04, 2015, 11:26:48 PM

Maybe this is the way it's supposed to be

maybe it isn't

you can't prove that this is the way it's "supposed" to be

And I suppose you think you can change it?

Quote from: TBlocks on July 04, 2015, 11:16:35 PM

See this is where i find the idea of morality a little silly. Survival should really be your number 1 goal. This idea that it's "morally wrong" to survive makes absolutely no sense to me.

it's not that it's morally wrong to survive--it's futile to survive
there's no point in survival--you're gonna die either way

and whether you die when you're eighty or when you're forty, it doesn't really make that much of a difference

the only thing that's "wrong" by any measure is the system itself

So why care that the system is wrong? Who are you to judge this system?

It really is the best anthem.

What my fellow Canadian said.