I find it genuinely disheartening that people can be this fuc­king dense.

TL;DR - The people who committed 9/11 were just extremists, not Muslim extremists, just extremists. Apparently we wouldn't call white, middle-aged mothers Women extremists if they committed 9/11. Apparently reading the Koran will also introduce you to a humble faith, not at all riddled with violence or anti-semitism.

I remember that picture.

Sadly, Comms is no longer with us.

The saddest part about this is that the federal government owns any monuments and parks in the first place.

Or that you're unwilling to admit that the britbongs didn't pull their weight?

I don't see why I'd care either way. I'm no patriot.

The Allies.

Lord ha' mercy

You underestimate me.

I'm a pretty modest person, but that's probably just because I don't have any confidence. If I don't restrain myself, which I've trained myself to do unconsciously, then I can get pretty cocky about my abilities. The unfortunate thing is that having confidence really gets you places in life, you don't even have to be intelligent.

It depends on the extent of your "modesty".

There's self-depreciation (which I'm criticising) and then there's a sense of reservation. Mixing the latter with a bit of confidence can actually be good.

Makes you seem genuine.

I guess you could say I am but only in relation to the rest of the forum. There are hardly any science heads on the forum save for a small few who don't discuss things enough.

My interests aren't nearly constant enough to allow me to partake, regardless. I remember being interested in atomic chemistry, and I was pretty good at it, a few years ago in school. Same with astrophysics.

To the uninitiated, science doesn't offer many avenues of discussion.

Perhaps he could have worded it better to be more clear.

I did quite clearly say:

However, modesty and humility in this manner - the debasement of one's self to nothing more than a lost puppy searching in the light of something greater, be that God or not - I find really quite irritating and, seriously, fuc­king repulsive.

So you're saying that "I don't know" does not mean you acknowledge a limit to your own abilities? I think you need a nap, kiddo

Well I didn't say that, but there's a difference between being moderate or unassuming and professing a sort of momentary ignorance. If you were to ask me whether the MAOA gene or neurological dysfunction in the prefrontal cortex was a bigger cause for antisocial behaviour, I'd simply have to tell you I don't know the answer to that.

You can call that modest if it helps you sleep at night, but it's fundamentally different and less meaningful to real modesty. Acknowledging a specific, and perhaps, temporary gap in my judgement isn't even barely comparable to a general feeling of insignificance, simplicity, ignorance or whatever else you want to associate with humility.

So you encourage people to brag?

Did you even read the OP?

The two examples I'm going to use will be religious, merely because religion can perpetuate this kind of attitude; this isn't a criticism directly or a discussion of religion itself.

I remember watching an interview with Richard Dawkins and an incredibly stupid host. The host didn't seem to understand what Dawkins was saying, and consistently referred to himself as "simple". He was a "simple man", almost as if he were trying to imply he lacked the capability to understand what Dawkins was saying. Secondly, I remember an instance where a local pastor came into our philosophy lesson to be questioned and he, fairly consistently, tried to profess that he didn't have the answers to a lot of questions.

Now, by no means am I advocating hubris or conceit. However, modesty and humility in this manner - the debasement of one's self to nothing more than a lost puppy searching in the light of something greater, be that God or not - I find really quite irritating and, seriously, fuc­king repulsive.

It's as if people think their self-professed imperfection, ignorance or simplicity somehow excludes them from the intellectual rigors everybody should face. Trying to brush off your own stupidity and failure to reason as part of your nature just doesn't bloody cut it. Even people in positions of power - be it political or social - have become convinced that this sort of humility is a virtue.

I have no problem with the, if you like, humility of science: "Well, we don't know, but we're working on it". But I'd struggle to call that genuine humility. If anything, it's sort of egotistical in a subtle way: "I don't know, but I'm confident I'm clever enough to find out for the sake of finding out". Science knows it's superior.

But these retards who think their humility is an excuse to hang on to their idiocy? I hate them. It's an infection on our culture, and the weak use it to avoid being crushed by the mighty. Anybody else in agreement? I suppose it comes from a deep-seated need for conflict on my part, but nonetheless it shouldn't be socially acceptable to prostrate yourself or others in this way.

TL;DR - People who are humble can have a tendency to think their self-professed simplicity excludes them from scrutiny and allows them to be stupid.

Eh, yes.

Spoiler

I feel like this belongs in Serious.

You can shift it over if you like.

I wouldn't want a foreigner as president.

What if 80pc of your fellow Americans do?