Quote from: FatherlyNick on May 24, 2020, 05:43:30 AM

Quote from: MarKhan on May 24, 2020, 04:15:02 AM

When Zelensky won president election year ago.

Tell me more.

There is so much to tell about what is going on that I don't even want to start. But today happened something exceptional. Spetsnaz (ukrainian analogy for Special forces for those who unaware) and who appears to be State Bureau of Investigation (who appears because they never showed their documents) today stormed and captured a museum in which our ex-president, Poroshenko, contributed a lot ukrainian and skifian works which he bought off from different countries and in which exhibiton was taking place at the moment, so I got to see the show live. For what (official) reason? Nobody knows. Neither it's legal. By the way, spetsnaz is still in there. 12 hours since it happened and they are still sitting there, doing god-knows-what. They haven't let anyone in either, neither journalists nor deputees.

Found a video.

YouTube

Edit: actually I found out that Spetsnaz left 7 hours ago, and opposition news channels claim that they took some paintings and declarations for them. Also Poroshenko lawyer claims that he managed to see documents of one of State Bureau of Investigation employee that have been there, but that they were expired.

When you use R6-Siege gameplay to get a few paintings. gg.
Ever since the poisoning of Yushchenko, there was non-stop questionable stuff going on in UA. Its like the post-USSR 90s never stopped there.
Edit: https://112.international/society/armed-showdown-in-brovary-town-10-gunmen-detained-51738.html
Exactly what I was talking about. geez. I hope things will improve.

Learn this skin-flute

"the curve is flattening so that means it's safe to come out of lockdown"

Meanwhile England

OP, what are you up to in Minecraft?

Quote from: Busta Nut on May 23, 2020, 09:27:13 PM

Anybody have EDF5? I wanna play but none of my boyz will shell out to play.

Yeah, I probably would've bought it on steam if it wasn't $60.

That being said. If it's on PC and cheap, I'll consider it. Besides that I got MCC and all the other PC Halos, Java Minecraft, Warframe and probably some other stuff that I haven't touched in forever.

Cheapest I could find: https://www.hrkgame.com/en/games/product/earth-defense-force-5-global

I'll give you about tree fiddy for pp.

The issue here is that criticism can be subjective and a person with even slightly malleable mindset can often simply agree-to-disagree because opinions can be different.

It would be much more productive to focus on turning people away from objectively bad things that we can factual backed up. I wrote a piece on this last year.

It is a rough draft so uh, sorry bad English.

Changing minds. Should we try to dispose of outdated / harmful views or opinions held by others? If yes, how do we go about this ethically? Part 1.

I suppose we should begin by discussing how an opinion or view is deemed outdated or harmful.
Here I propose that any opinion or view that can be proven to be wrong by undeniable facts (mostly scientific) – is an outdated one. This would be quite simple to do. Identifying a harmful view however, is much harder.
If we judge a view or opinion by its moral and ethical merits and arrive at the fact that its motives are ill – we deem it to be harmful. Obviously, there are a lot of uncertainties with this method compared to hard facts used with outdated views. Since it depends on undefined morals and ethics which can vary (wildly or slightly) from person to person. I will not delve into defining these and simply ask the reader to think of the basic ‘good’ vs ‘bad’ that you use as a compass when navigating your social intuition through the streets of life.
We may now address the first question. Should we even try to change someone’s mind? Similar to how evolution changes an organism to better suit their environment, an idea should also suit the person’s world. At least that’s how I see it. Just like evolution – mutation of a person’s mind or at a larger scale – the mind of society is a very slow process. We slowly moved from belief in multiple gods being responsible for Earthly phenomenon like rain or erupting volcanoes to accepting a single god figure. We stopped believing in a flat Earth or witchcraft. We moved from accepting slavery as a normal form of labor replacing it with a semi-forced labor (but that’s a story for another day).
These changes took a lot of time before they were accepting. We can agree that overall these changes lead to a better world / life. So it would seem that changing mind is good, right? Well, once a single god became the norm. Humans (very imaginative creatures) spun all sorts of legends and myths and this split humanity based on what legend or myth they believed in. There were wars and forced conversions. The Church having direct control over states – having power to label anyone ‘wicked’ or a ‘heretic’ for not conforming to what they deemed as ‘normal’ and promptly executing them for their supposed crimes against god and church. Just like Galileo who proposed that Earth was not flat and the sun is in place while it’s the Earth that in fact rotates around it was labeled a heretic by the Church. It took more time before such practices would become obsolete and cease to exist in most parts of the world.



Second question is – how should we change minds? An individual forms opinions and views using their own outlook on the world and life. Hence they would believe to be correct because they spent time arriving at their opinion using all of their personal mental tools such as logic, morality and ethics. An individual would never hold onto a view they themselves know to be wrong. I am not saying that people can never contradict themselves (I think we all contradict ourselves daily in some way), but that if they receive trust-worthy information that challenges their views – they will begin the process of deduction again and gradually arrive at an updated view. This happens naturally at their own pace and so will be believed to be correct by said individual.
I would like to highlight a psychological phenomenon whereby people tend to value things more when they discovered them on their own rather than finding out about it from someone else. You are more likely to enjoy a musical artist if a friend simply mentions their name followed by a short and general description of what they are like and what possible tracks you should try out than if the same friend played the suggested tracks to you.
You can see that in the first case, you are guided towards a new idea while in the latter you are flat out told what you should like. I don’t know the mechanism behind this but I suspect this is due a person’s critical thinking with a combination of skepticism and a pinch of pride. Your mind probably thinks “Why do you assume that I will like this?” or “Why do you assume I will like what you like?”

This then would lead us to think that the sure way to change people’s mind is exposure to alternative thoughts or at least a different perspective. If we follow this approach however, the person who we are trying to convince could just dismiss your guidance as an opinion and agree to disagree. Not quite productive as it doesn’t achieve our desired goal of changing minds.
So here is the very thin line between opinion sharing and changing minds.


The issues –
 Finding the ‘correct’ view to ensure that the change that we are trying to achieve is virtuous. Positive change is a good change;
The goal of the mind change should be an overall improvement of life within societies. But this is too global sometimes. Teaching a person to cut down sugar consumption will not make the world a better place but can lead to an improved quality of life to the person we are giving advice to.
 Is trying to convert a believer into atheism a positive change? Rational view, but is it virtuous – improving anything in the world?

Being too soft and not confrontational enough;
Being too confrontational;
Mind blowing things – radical change can take a while to be accepted as the world view;

Deep rooted outlooks set by culture and years of traditions / faith.

Delete internet please

Quote from: maverick on May 21, 2020, 03:40:31 PM

Quote from: Jono on May 21, 2020, 03:36:22 PM

Quote from: Aether on May 21, 2020, 02:13:46 PM

Quote from: waytoohot97 on May 21, 2020, 01:46:57 PM

i am happy to see it's still doing well.

You're the first person I've seen suggest that the current state of this site is "doing well."

It's doing better now than it did 6 months ago

but at what cost?

The deaths of thousands of boomers.

So many empty houses entering the market now. This is the balance Thanos was fighting for.

Thank you.

This pandemic brought so many back here.

Denuvo anti-spam is now intergaretd into Sep7agon. No need for mods.

What made you think Verbatim (of all members here) would be ok with this kind of identity hijack?
At least you didn't double down now.

inb4 this is just Cheats plot to plug sep7agon and recruit people from Carmen's Discord group.

Hello, I am Verbatim and totaly not Carmen ha-ha =3
I just found this site: www.sep7agon.net ; Its really cool, you will probably like it there. Use my affiliate link for a free 30 day Premium membership.

pp