Why Is Dark Souls II So Bad?

CMD.exe · January 20, 2020, 06:10:27 PM

Quote from: Ingy on January 20, 2020, 03:19:57 PM

Am I missing something because I just tried PvP in DSIII for the first time and it’s bullshit because i Frames don’t work, they get me from a mile away, and hit me even though they clearly didn’t wtf

You're not missing anything, 3's PvP is just godawful.
3 and Bloodborne have a particularly bad netcode, and that's saying something given what a delay-fest 1 and 2 already were.

YouTube

Verbatim · January 21, 2020, 03:22:06 PM

>playing dark souls for pvp

CMD.exe · January 22, 2020, 01:13:12 AM

Quote from: Ingy on December 19, 2019, 11:54:16 PM

Put up with this shit until the lava place but now I’m done thanks Miyazaki

You should play the Augar of Darkness mod. It's somehow even fucking worse than the base game.

Ingy · January 22, 2020, 02:46:40 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on January 21, 2020, 03:22:06 PM

>playing dark souls for pvp

I’m surprised how much the community has gathered around it

It seems like the only strategy is to be a huge tank and swing the biggest sword you have

CMD.exe · January 22, 2020, 04:22:35 PM

Quote from: Ingy on January 22, 2020, 02:46:40 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on January 21, 2020, 03:22:06 PM
>playing dark souls for pvp

I’m surprised how much the community has gathered around it

It seems like the only strategy is to be a huge tank and swing the biggest sword you have

Each Meta is as follows:

Dark Souls 1
-Chain Backstab
-Dark Magic one-Shot
-Any other glitch exploit build

Dark Souls 2
-whatever the fuck you want but you have to wear the Agape ring at all times lest you raise your soul memory into Katana Havel mage territory.

Bloodborne
-Less active PvP than Sekiro

Dark Souls 3
-Hornet Ring
-Lag
-Phantom range

Ingy · January 24, 2020, 06:56:23 PM

We only have two bosses in the DLC should we add more?

Nah just make them fight the last one three times

January 25, 2020, 06:49:14 PM

Themeatically it was a bit of a mess compared to the first, but I honestly want to give it some praise for at least attempting new things. I was honestly a bit dissappointed when some of its more decent qualities were discarded in III.

Ingy · January 30, 2020, 10:56:41 PM

At the rate this boss design is going, Dark Souls 4 is just going to be one boss you have beat 92 times

Ingy · February 01, 2020, 06:10:40 PM

I really just lost to a man fighting me with a shield

PvP is wild

Septy · February 09, 2020, 06:18:47 PM

YouTube

This is a pretty good video on DS2 and why I prefer it to DS1.

CMD.exe · February 10, 2020, 12:21:03 AM

Quote from: Septy on February 09, 2020, 06:18:47 PM

YouTube

This is a pretty good video on DS2 and why I prefer it to DS1.

Exept so much of this video is so objectivity wrong someone literally made an entire 10 hour lecture about how bad it was.

His "sHeLd BaD r1 SpAm GoOd Hurt Durr oBjEcTiVElY rIgHT pLaYsTyLe" bullshit he spews in all of his videos are easily his worst take and flies in the face of Dark Souls 2's real biggest strength, which is it's insane build and playstyle variety.

Whatever you want to do in Dark Souls 2 can be insanely good as long as you can build and play to it's strengths. You could make a build with no shield and do great and do just as well with a build running six different shields all with different gimicks.

If the game was trying to steer people away from shields there wouldn't be literally dozzns of them in the game in Al shapes and sizes including:

-A pair made spesificly to dual wield
-A crossbow shield
-Two different magic casting shields
-Stat boosting shields
-One designed spesificly to parry magic

"muh 'Shouldnt engerder passivity' quote from a game with entirely different combat principals doe. Dat means Miyazaki agrees with me."

Oh please, If you wanted , you could make a build I 2 where you could basically tape down the block button and kill people by just walking up to them. And that's nothing to say about how much stronger greatshields got in 3 at release.

Don't even get me started on his dishonesty trying to "counter" Mathewmattosis or the fact that this fucker actually thinks fucking SHRINE OF AMANA is a good level.

CMD.exe · February 10, 2020, 01:09:18 AM

https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls2/81809

Septy · February 10, 2020, 01:07:40 PM

Quote from: CMD.exe on February 10, 2020, 12:21:03 AM

Quote from: Septy on February 09, 2020, 06:18:47 PM
YouTube

This is a pretty good video on DS2 and why I prefer it to DS1.

Exept so much of this video is so objectivity wrong someone literally made an entire 10 hour lecture about how bad it was.

His "sHeLd BaD r1 SpAm GoOd Hurt Durr oBjEcTiVElY rIgHT pLaYsTyLe" bullshit he spews in all of his videos are easily his worst take and flies in the face of Dark Souls 2's real biggest strength, which is it's insane build and playstyle variety.

Whatever you want to do in Dark Souls 2 can be insanely good as long as you can build and play to it's strengths. You could make a build with no shield and do great and do just as well with a build running six different shields all with different gimicks.

If the game was trying to steer people away from shields there wouldn't be literally dozzns of them in the game in Al shapes and sizes including:

-A pair made spesificly to dual wield
-A crossbow shield
-Two different magic casting shields
-Stat boosting shields
-One designed spesificly to parry magic

"muh 'Shouldnt engerder passivity' quote from a game with entirely different combat principals doe. Dat means Miyazaki agrees with me."

Oh please, If you wanted , you could make a build I 2 where you could basically tape down the block button and kill people by just walking up to them. And that's nothing to say about how much stronger greatshields got in 3 at release.

Don't even get me started on his dishonesty trying to "counter" Mathewmattosis or the fact that this fucker actually thinks fucking SHRINE OF AMANA is a good level.

Shrine of amana is a good level tho

CMD.exe · February 10, 2020, 05:40:29 PM

Quote from: Septy on February 10, 2020, 01:07:40 PM

Quote from: CMD.exe on February 10, 2020, 12:21:03 AM
Quote from: Septy on February 09, 2020, 06:18:47 PM
YouTube

This is a pretty good video on DS2 and why I prefer it to DS1.

Shrine of amana is a good level tho

Ban reqested

Busta Nut · February 11, 2020, 03:31:55 PM

Quote from: Moskovik on January 19, 2020, 06:30:08 PM

Legend has it that some Demons Souls invasions are still ongoing because neither player has ran out of fucking grass yet.

Once spent a solid 45 minutes chasing down this one motherfucker on world 1-3. Guy must have used a solid 300+ grass throughout the whole encounter and disconnected before I could deal that final blow.

I love Demon's Souls, but fuck that game design.

Ehnsanity · February 13, 2020, 06:09:48 PM

Honestly you should’ve just Scraping Speared his asshole and broke everything he owned to make it all the more inconvenient for him. Whenever I invaded in DeS I already knew what I was in for so I always just whipped it out and then used Soulbrandt after I effectively broke all their shit with SS. For a first attempt at PvP from Fromsoft; it is so hilariously broken that I haven’t a clue how it made it past concept art, let alone actually be playtested.

I once had a duel that went on for an hour because both of us had a shitload of grass and the second chance spell, it eventually just turned into a “no u” of us spamming the SS at each other until everything was broken. We then proceeded to attempt to murder each other with broken weapons and every time either of us got low we just used grass to heal right back up.

Never again.

Ingy · February 13, 2020, 10:59:16 PM

I see Miyazaki’s back on his bullshit with the abyssal swamp in the ringed city

Ingy · February 15, 2020, 04:39:27 PM

Midir is a joke

Ingy · February 15, 2020, 08:41:10 PM

Fuck this I'm summoning

This is one of those bullshit hard bosses like Bed of Chaos not challenging hard bosses like Ornstein and Smough

Ingy · February 15, 2020, 08:47:49 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on January 21, 2020, 03:22:06 PM

What's your opinion on summoning

Ingy · February 15, 2020, 10:34:30 PM

Nevermind I was just being dramatic
Midir isn’t that bad once you pull your thumb out

A Cheese Potato · February 16, 2020, 07:12:20 AM

Quote from: Ingy on February 15, 2020, 10:34:30 PM

Nevermind I was just being dramatic
Midir isn’t that bad once you pull your thumb out

you were only hitting him in the head right

Ingy · February 16, 2020, 10:05:25 AM

Quote from: A Cheese Potato on February 16, 2020, 07:12:20 AM

Quote from: Ingy on February 15, 2020, 10:34:30 PM
Nevermind I was just being dramatic
Midir isn’t that bad once you pull your thumb out
you were only hitting him in the head right

Wasn’t getting under him for lasers and kept getting hit by fire

Verbatim · February 16, 2020, 10:38:42 PM

Quote from: Ingy on February 15, 2020, 08:47:49 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on January 21, 2020, 03:22:06 PM
What's your opinion on summoning

it's complicated

on principle, i don't use summons, because i personally find it more satisfying to defeat each boss on my own no matter what

but if you don't give a shit about that, i don't see any shame in using them, since some people just aren't good at action games and need some help sometimes, and that's totally fine—that's what the mechanic is there for, after all

by summoning, of course, you do open the door to getting invaded, though, and (needless to say) i've never been especially partial to invasion as a mechanic—you could say it's the exact opposite of what i find fun in a video game, and i typically do everything in my power to avoid it

one of the most common arguments i've seen in favor of invasions is that they exist to counterbalance summons, so that two players can't just turn the game into an utter cakewalk by double teaming and steamrolling all the bosses

historically, i haven't really been able to come up with an adequate response to this besides "anyone who wants more arbitrary difficulty can just not use summons"—so my default position, for the sake of consistency, is that if i'm against invasions, then i should probably be against summoning, too

however, i usually only said stuff like that to avoid getting lost in the weeds with dark souls fanboys, because in reality, you're really just throwing out the baby with the bathwater by holding a position like that

just because invasions are fucking toxic doesn't mean that summoning is, too; there's SO many other ways they could've balanced summoning in a way that's fair and fun for everybody, and that doesn't compromise how challenging the game is supposed to be, but arguing with dark souls fanboys about any of this stuff has proven to be a deeply lost cause and i'll probably never convince anybody even though i'm right

at the end of the day though it's just video games tbqh so do whatever you want who cares

Ingy · February 21, 2020, 12:00:41 PM

I just beat Gael and now I’m empty inside

The very last fight in all of Dark Souls and it couldn’t have been any better tbh

Aether · February 21, 2020, 05:25:23 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on February 16, 2020, 10:38:42 PM

You don't like invasions, but what is your opinion on PvP in general? Like duels or the arena?

Verbatim · February 21, 2020, 06:02:10 PM

Quote from: Aether on February 21, 2020, 05:25:23 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on February 16, 2020, 10:38:42 PM
You don't like invasions, but what is your opinion on PvP in general? Like duels or the arena?

yeah, i'm fine with the concept, just not the execution

as long as i actually agree to have a duel with you, i for one will have a good time no matter what

what i don't really care for are the unspoken rules of engagement that the community made up, like not using magic, or the fact that it's considered BM to heal, which is kinda silly, because everybody has access to healing items (so you can't say it's an unfair advantage), and healing yourself is a bit of a process, so it should be extremely easy to punish people for doing it anyway

so i don't really understand any of that shit

i've also been told that the balance could use work in every iteration, but that goes for any pvp system

February 24, 2020, 12:53:11 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on February 21, 2020, 06:02:10 PM

Quote from: Aether on February 21, 2020, 05:25:23 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on February 16, 2020, 10:38:42 PM
You don't like invasions, but what is your opinion on PvP in general? Like duels or the arena?
yeah, i'm fine with the concept, just not the execution

as long as i actually agree to have a duel with you, i for one will have a good time no matter what

what i don't really care for are the unspoken rules of engagement that the community made up, like not using magic, or the fact that it's considered BM to heal, which is kinda silly, because everybody has access to healing items (so you can't say it's an unfair advantage), and healing yourself is a bit of a process, so it should be extremely easy to punish people for doing it anyway

so i don't really understand any of that shit

i've also been told that the balance could use work in every iteration, but that goes for any pvp system

I'm pretty sure magic is so shunned because in some instances it's plain broken with no fair counter. At least in the original dark souls, a dark bead sorcery build could oneshot 95% of players in pvp scenarios, and there was little to counter it. Various other wombo combos emerged throughout the games as well, although it seems like magic was tougher to utilize in III.

As for healing, I can't say I know where that started. But the arena mode in IIIs duel pvp removed all healing items entirely, which I thought was cool. Fights don't drag on because of chuggernaughts and you need some skill to get your win with only one life.

Verbatim · February 24, 2020, 01:12:48 AM

Quote from: E on February 24, 2020, 12:53:11 AM

I'm pretty sure magic is so shunned because in some instances it's plain broken with no fair counter. At least in the original dark souls, a dark bead sorcery build could oneshot 95% of players in pvp scenarios, and there was little to counter it. Various other wombo combos emerged throughout the games as well, although it seems like magic was tougher to utilize in III.

i've never really dabbled with magic before, but it's my understanding that magically-resistant armor is a thing, and that spells usually take a long time to charge up + they're susceptible to rolling anyway

i assume, if you're right, that those three counters just aren't good enough for some reason? which would be unfortunate, and i can sort of understand looking down on those who allow themselves to be carried by OP strategies

but at the same time, when it comes to pvp, i tend to have a very "anything goes" ethos, as long as you're not cheating

it sucks, but if anyone doesn't like it, they can play a game that's designed around pvp, like a fighting game or something

February 27, 2020, 07:09:11 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on February 24, 2020, 01:12:48 AM

Quote from: E on February 24, 2020, 12:53:11 AM
I'm pretty sure magic is so shunned because in some instances it's plain broken with no fair counter. At least in the original dark souls, a dark bead sorcery build could oneshot 95% of players in pvp scenarios, and there was little to counter it. Various other wombo combos emerged throughout the games as well, although it seems like magic was tougher to utilize in III.
i've never really dabbled with magic before, but it's my understanding that magically-resistant armor is a thing, and that spells usually take a long time to charge up + they're susceptible to rolling anyway

i assume, if you're right, that those three counters just aren't good enough for some reason? which would be unfortunate, and i can sort of understand looking down on those who allow themselves to be carried by OP strategies

but at the same time, when it comes to pvp, i tend to have a very "anything goes" ethos, as long as you're not cheating

it sucks, but if anyone doesn't like it, they can play a game that's designed around pvp, like a fighting game or something

Most magic in the first souls was easily counterable, yes. Most of it had a long charge time and it was very easy to roll or block. Except with the addition of dark bead. I can explain why it does so much damage as well and give you some examples of how broken it is. The first dark souls actually has no "dark" magic category of damage. So all dark spells that do dark damage actually do a combination of magic plus physical damage. So, here's where every single shield with the exception of havel's fails even if it has high magic resistance. All dark spells do immense physical damage, which depletes your stamina very quickly if blocked. Dark bead is also a very quick cast brand of magic, making it spammable and 100% unforgiving if you miss a single roll or experience bad netcode.

And this is probably the best example I can give of darkbead via a five second youtube search.

YouTube