o-kay?
It's not triggering if I just wanted to know why...

because i'm not someone who plays video games just for fun--i play them to have an experience that will sit me down, teach me something, give me a new perspective on life, make me think about certain things in other ways, and challenge me in ways that will stick with me long after my play session is over--an artful expression of themes and values constructed from the heart and soul of the developer (zelda, klonoa, etc), or a sophisticated platform on which i can express my self in a number of beautiful ways (street fighter, littlebigplanet, etc) while still having substance in and of itself

sports games do not offer this--they're just supposed to be "fun," and they don't even succeed at that

Quote from: TBlocks on July 09, 2016, 05:13:07 PM

Way to avoid replying. 👍

thanks because it's not a conversation i was actually having

it's so easy to trigger sports fans

Someone is butthurt because Odell agressive catched all over your shitty team

So substance is a relatively broad term. I'm going to assume you mean strategy or something behind straight up playing the game.
I would say a game like MLB The Show challenges you through learning the types of pitches needed to strike different batters out. It's not a one size fits all deal.

all games challenge you

so what--that doesn't mean they have substance

what artful significance does MLB the show have

what does it say about society or life or reality or anything

But a game like Smash Bros or Street Fighter doesn't seem like a game you could "express yourself" in any way. Most people play those games because "they're fun."

then you know absolutely nothing of fighting games

everything about fighting games, down to the character you choose and your style of play, is a reflection of your personality--you "become" your character, in a way

how you play a character and what character you pick can say a lot about you as a person--daigo umehara, one of the greatest japanese street fighter players of all time, is often looked upon as the physical embodiment of his character ryu--calm, disciplined, powerful as fuck, yet never satisfied with his progress

in street fighter lore, ryu has the ability to grasp a forbidden source of fighting energy called the "satsui no hado," or the "surge of killing intent"--if he allows himself to be consumed by this force, however, he'll become evil ryu--so, he becomes much more powerful and aggressive, but more evil and destructive as a result

for the first two years of street fighter 4's lifespan, daigo was the undisputed champion--but over time, his character couldn't keep up with all of the balance patches, and towards the end of the game's cycle, he made the controversial decision to switch to evil ryu--which was a big deal, because he has stated in the past that he was committed to using normal ryu for his entire career; it was almost as though he allowed himself to be consumed by the satsui no hado

ironically, his lust for victory ended up resulting in his worst tournament performance ever

it's fucking poetry, and that's just one little example

even in games like smash, character expression is HUGE--mew2king, for example, has three characters in melee: marth, sheik, and fox, but he's gone on record to say that he only plays fox as a desperation move, and he plays a very cautious, defensive style that's evident in his gameplay

conversely, he only plays marth when he's feeling confident and happy--and it shows in his gameplay; he has one of the most stylish marths in the world

you can express anger, happiness, disrespect, fear, hatred, desperation--basically anything in a fighting game, and if you have something called empathy, you can probably see it very well in their gameplay

Fun is subjective.

no shit

I swear you guys have had this exact argument before like 9 times.

Quote from: TBlocks on July 09, 2016, 05:56:37 PM

So substance is a relatively broad term. I'm going to assume you mean strategy or something behind straight up playing the game.
I would say a game like MLB The Show challenges you through learning the types of pitches needed to strike different batters out. It's not a one size fits all deal.

Yeah I could see the stories behind it. So your thinking is that the game has to mean something beyond the game itself. The fighting games example is the stories of people playing as their characters. I get that. I see it and it's cool that this guy embodies the character.
The issue I have is you can do the same in sports games. The reason a lot of people play is to feel like the "characters" or players that you're using. Getting a taste of the pro experience most will never enjoy. The whole idea of poetry can be expanded into the individual stories of not only the sport itself, but it's video game representation. I know I've experienced intense emotion (on both sides of the scale) playing sports games. Especially playing on a team with my friends.

Quote from: Callous on July 09, 2016, 06:27:53 PM

I swear you guys have had this exact argument before like 9 times.

I've never had this conversation with Verb before.

You've definitely had sports game related arguments in the past.

Yeah I could see the stories behind it. So your thinking is that the game has to mean something beyond the game itself. The fighting games example is the stories of people playing as their characters. I get that. I see it and it's cool that this guy embodies the character.
The issue I have is you can do the same in sports games. The reason a lot of people play is to feel like the "characters" or players that you're using. Getting a taste of the pro experience most will never enjoy. The whole idea of poetry can be expanded into the individual stories of not only the sport itself, but it's video game representation. I know I've experienced intense emotion (on both sides of the scale) playing sports games. Especially playing on a team with my friends.

The difference is that in a fighting game, it's typically mano a mano, rather than two whole teams of people.

In a war movie, if I see a hundred people I don't know get killed during a battle scene, I feel pretty much nothing in comparison to what I feel when I watch a character I do know and care about die. It's the same kind of logic with team sports. I watch a game of football, and it's just white noise to me.

Very rarely do you ever get a hint of personality out of any of the players, except for people like Richard Sherman--but people like him are very few and far between. I don't give a fuck about any of these people--so the emotional investment is zero.

Quote from: Verbatim on July 09, 2016, 06:53:42 PM

Quote from: Luciana on July 09, 2016, 06:52:01 PM

You can have that emotional investment with literally anything, sports games too.

Show me an "emotional" sports game and I'll explain to you why it does nothing for me.

And as for "literally anything," show me an emotional game of Tetris, or Pong.

Not the game itself, the people playing it.

I'm just saying your idea of someone being invested emotionally into a game they're competitively playing, can be found all across the board.

I'm not talking about people being emotionally invested in the game--I'm talking about the game itself being emotional.

You get that a lot in Street Fighter--I've never seen anything like it in a sport. Let alone a video game based on the sport.

Quote from: Verbatim on July 09, 2016, 06:56:36 PM

I'm not talking about people being emotionally invested in the game--I'm talking about the game itself being emotional.

Oh, my mistake. Well, I never felt that with Street Fighter when I played at all. I have with FIFA. Reach as well. It's different for each person.

It's not about what you feel during play, either. I don't know, there's something you're not really catching on to.

Basically, I'm talking about the ability to express yourself through the game, like you can do with paint. In football, you have a series of lines and formations to choose from which are designed to either bring the ball over to the endzone as efficiently as possible, or make it extremely difficult for the other team to do the same thing. It's a game, and you can become emotionally invested in it, but there's very little self-expression in that.

There's a reason that sports aren't considered art and video games are.

like, i get that if you're not good at them, you're less likely to enjoy them, but still

thank you dark souls