Was what he did at the hospital wrong?
Let's face it. It's unlikely that Ellie is the only one with an immunity to the cordyceps, and the chances of actually creating a cure really wasn't in the Firefies' favour.

No. I would have done the same thing. If you found all the collectibles in the firefly hospital you would know that Joel didn't lie about several other people with immunities being killed while looking for the cure, and each time was a failure. Chances are Ellie was going to die to. Yes Joel lied, but the fireflies weren't exactly honest do gooders either.

He denied the world a chance at recovery so he could have his daughter back, in a way.

Not really.
The Fireflies had already tried and failed multiple times to create a cure from those with an immunity. Ellie wouldn't have been an exception.

In a choice between a ruthless survivor who will doom humanity in order to save his surrogate daughter and an equally ruthless group of rebels willing to tear open an innocent girl to save their own sorry asses, there is no good guy or bad guy.

Joel is luv
Joel is lyfe

Quote from: Cocos on December 12, 2014, 01:52:39 PM

He denied the world a chance at recovery so he could have his daughter back, in a way.

Not really.
The Fireflies had already tried and failed multiple times to create a cure from those with an immunity. Ellie wouldn't have been an exception.

What I'm saying is that Ellie was another chance at recovery, not necessarily a guaranteed success.  I'm not saying I wouldn't make the same decision, either way.

In a way, yes. But atleast his reasons are kinda sympathetic.

Ok, I will leave this here. After Joel loses Sarah at the start of the game, he grows distant from letting anybody getting close to him. Losing his daughter pretty much killed him inside and he refused to care and love again. Thats why he was sorta a dick to Ellie for the most part, until he realized that this girl has been through more than he could imagine. As his bond develops, he eventually calls her "baby girl" after she brutally kills David. Sorta like a Father/Daughter thing. Once they finally reach the FireFlies and he learns that they pretty much have to kill her to create a vaccine. He objects because he cannot loose another girl. Especially one that has taught him to love again.

So he refuses to let it happen again, since he now has control over it in some way. With Sarah, he had no control...
But with Ellie, he does. How could he stand by and let somebody he loves be taken from him again, when he could save her. With it being totally selfish reasons with ruined hope for humanity... But still, ones that we can have sympathy for.

No. Murder doesn't have to be justified in the apocalypse.

The Assassins would've killed him for doing that.

The Assassins are faggots

The thing is, Joel isn't supposed to be "good" or "bad."  It's the fucking zombie apocalypse, and you're playing a grizzled man who lost his only link to life after a soldier gunned the both of them down.  The Fireflies aren't good either, despite their anti-government stance following the outbreak.  Everyone's a shade of grey in this game.

That being said, if I had to choose an answer, then no.  Joel was not acting like the bad guy.  He was acting like a father figure out to protect "his baby girl" from people who were not even convinced themselves that the cure would even work, and then Ellie's sacrifice would have been in vain.  Ellie brought Joel's head out of his ass and taught him to care again, to give a fuck about the people in his life.



^ That there, hands-down, is my favorite fucking scene in the whole game.  It demonstrated how determined Joel is to get Ellie back and keep her safe, even when he was still recovering from getting impaled a month or two prior.  And when they made it to the Fireflies base and found out they're not the saviors they claim to be, he took down an entire fucking army to get Ellie back safely.

Plus, even if the "cure" managed to work, it's not like society will be back to normal in a fortnight.  It's been 20 years of Hell-on-Earth, there's mass societies of hunters, cannibals, rapists, and cruel tyrannical regimes.  Who says the cure would've changed anything?

Joel took the risk of taking down an entire base to get his little girl back, and in doing-so would rather spend his life with her at his brother's safe and growing community instead of losing the person who brought him back to life.

Kind of irrelevant, but if they ever make a sequel to this game, I'm going to shoot myself in the mouth.

I feel like that would cheapen the unquestionable masterpiece of an ending this game has.

But mr. Snake, ending that make tyger think make tyger head hurt

Quote from: Based Snake on December 13, 2014, 02:14:56 PM

Kind of irrelevant, but if they ever make a sequel to this game, I'm going to shoot myself in the mouth.

I feel like that would cheapen the unquestionable masterpiece of an ending this game has.

I guess you better get that gun ready then.

Is there any reason why we won't get a Jak 4?