I like your damage control.You're just repeating yourself twice over.They have the same opportunities as men do. They aren't the blacks or something.inb4Psy
And here we see you placing me on the complete opposite end of the spectrum to make your own argument seem more valid.I just posted about sexism in Verbs little gamer thread. I'm well aware there is such a thing as sexism on all sides for all genders.
Class is like, 19 too (with the mind of a child, mind you)Aren't you older?
you fucking bunch of faggots
My main issue with these works are that it presumes upon "male entitlement" as the issue at hand; in general, I'd expand that to just "entitlement". Towards the end, especially, she makes a comment that male entitlement affects how women interact with each other. Quite frankly, it seems she's using men as a scapegoat for issues. If women weren't interested in rewarding skimpiness, films like Magic Mike wouldn't have been a box office hit (and even though its sequel, Magic Mike XXL, did poorly at the box office in comparison, it still made a large profit).
Another is a comment she makes slightly earlier/later (depending on which section of discussion on male entitlement you predict that I'm speaking of) about "angry public temper tantrums from straight male players have occurred when role-playing games have forced them to interact with gay male characters". The issue with Cortez from Mass Effect 3, and similarly other minorities in Bioware games, is that they are themselves based solely around their "issue"; Cortez is just a gay guy, that's the limit of his development. Anders (Dragon Age II) will react negatively if you refuse him sex after building a significant amount of approval points (a contrast to her issue with reward points in video games, where the player is negatively affected by refusing sex). On the other side, characters who were actually developed past their sexuality are approved of or loved by the gaming community. Dorian (Dragon Age: Inquisition), despite the mixed views towards the game, is generally seen as a good character on his own grounds. Likewise, Arcade Gannon (Fallout: New Vegas) is also a gay character who is beloved and approved of by the gaming community.
I dislike her views, not because they contrast with my own, but because I find it increasingly apparent that they are used to push an agenda and not to inform for the greater benefit of society. No person can be expected, or for that matter possibly be, unbiased on a subject; but her series reeks of bias, with minimal attempts to try and "straighten the curve" toward radical leftist principles.
Quote from: Solid Lemon on August 31, 2015, 02:58:58 PMClass is like, 19 too (with the mind of a child, mind you)Aren't you older?I assume you're talking to me. I'm 19 as well, but I think he was using it more as a general insult.
Quote from: Zizzy on August 31, 2015, 03:12:17 PMQuote from: Solid Lemon on August 31, 2015, 02:58:58 PMClass is like, 19 too (with the mind of a child, mind you)Aren't you older?I assume you're talking to me. I'm 19 as well, but I think he was using it more as a general insult.
Okay, but how does it harm women?
What are the wider sociocultural repercussions of treating women as 'objects'?
Does it affect men too seeing as how objectification of men is almost as prevalent?
What exactly are your solutions to this alleged problem?
QuoteWhat are the wider sociocultural repercussions of treating women as 'objects'?I really don't think I need to teach you about the ethical repercussions of treating people as objects. I really don't.
Quote from: Solid Lemon on August 31, 2015, 03:46:02 PMQuote from: Zizzy on August 31, 2015, 03:12:17 PMQuote from: Solid Lemon on August 31, 2015, 02:58:58 PMClass is like, 19 too (with the mind of a child, mind you)Aren't you older?I assume you're talking to me. I'm 19 as well, but I think he was using it more as a general insult.
Someone brought up that the whole "big boobs are bad" argument is as well. As in, people who says female characters having big breasts is bad because it sexualizes women, so they need to bring it down.Well apparently people fail to understand there are women who have a pretty big breast size.
How are they supposed to feel when people instantly say "THATS WRONG!!!" when it's thrown in any form of media? Someone brought that up with Tifa and the remake of FF7, and it does bring up a point (because the girl, who happened to have big breasts, actually felt ashamed because of what I said).
She's popular because not only can she look good, but she's a good person while doing it.
There's a lot of sexism in our society, and while I'd consider this bad, of course, it's not nearly as important as things like employment discrimination and the gender pay gap.
Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:34:53 PMThere's a lot of sexism in our society, and while I'd consider this bad, of course, it's not nearly as important as things like employment discrimination and the gender pay gap.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privationI'm glad you can at least see where I'm coming from.
I'm not defending it (most of that stuff makes me uncomfortable while playing), I just don't believe it translates into real life.
Although I do agree with most of the examples she gave, I don't think that it is a problem provided that it fits with the story, such as love scenes. They aren't necessary to the plot, but they can ad dept to the game by more intimately including the player into the life of the character.
TIL I can ignore well reasoned arguments because Reddit doesn't like the claimant.
I think TV commercials piss me off more than games, because of the audience it reaches. Like, I think they made a Coke for men, and made the other seem too girly or something.It was so retarded.
I think he was talking about modern day times.
SpoilerQuote from: Luciana on August 31, 2015, 12:01:17 PMSomeone brought up that the whole "big boobs are bad" argument is as well. As in, people who says female characters having big breasts is bad because it sexualizes women, so they need to bring it down.Well apparently people fail to understand there are women who have a pretty big breast size.I don't find large breasts problematic in and of themselves. It's how they are displayed, and what this large-breasted character's role is in the story. Not their primary role--ALL of their roles. And if one of their roles is "the cocktease," that's a problem.The hard thing--and we just discussed this the other day--it's very difficult to gauge intent. It's hard for me to think to myself, "Oh, well, this female character just happens to have large, nearly exposed breasts. That doesn't mean she's being sexualized--that's just how she dresses!"I can't do that. If it's in a piece of art, chances are, it's done intentionally. Take those cutscenes from that new Fire Emblem game--there's a LOT of breast gags in that game, apparently. Clearly, they're intentionally doing that. But, frankly, I can't think of a SINGLE big-breasted female character in a game that wasn't overtly designed to be sexually tantalizing in some way. They're all cockteases. Please, please name me some, if you're so sure of yourself.QuoteHow are they supposed to feel when people instantly say "THATS WRONG!!!" when it's thrown in any form of media? Someone brought that up with Tifa and the remake of FF7, and it does bring up a point (because the girl, who happened to have big breasts, actually felt ashamed because of what I said).That's a valid point, and Tifa is an interesting example, but I ain't ever played Final Fantasy, so I can't really gauge whether or not she was overtly sexualized or not. Forgive me if I don't take your word for it--even if there's a single scene where she does something goofy with her funbags, or some other fanservice-y shit like that, then... she fails the "test", as it were.So again, I'm not saying it's bad to have large breasts in games--maybe SOME people are saying that, but I'm not--what I'm saying is that it's generally pretty obvious that whenever there's a character with large breasts, the only reason they are is because it makes men's dicks hard--and that, to me, has no place in video games.QuoteShe's popular because not only can she look good, but she's a good person while doing it.That was actually pretty clever. I like that. Did you come up with it yourself?
Quote from: Zizzy on August 31, 2015, 03:54:57 PMQuote from: Solid Lemon on August 31, 2015, 03:46:02 PMQuote from: Zizzy on August 31, 2015, 03:12:17 PMQuote from: Solid Lemon on August 31, 2015, 02:58:58 PMClass is like, 19 too (with the mind of a child, mind you)Aren't you older?I assume you're talking to me. I'm 19 as well, but I think he was using it more as a general insult.my post was directly under luci's, whose comment was about class calling her a kid
Some feminists would argue that the way women are treated in media profoundly influences ways how women are treated in real life
(ie. sexist game -> more sexist people), albeit subconsciously.
I don't really know about that, myself.
For example--I hate bad controls. They tend to ruin the experience for me. Does having bad controls harm anyone?
No, it doesn't. Does that take away my ability to complain about it and say, "Hey, this really fucking sucks. It would be great if it was different, or just better."
That's what I'm doing with sexualization. I don't think that's unreasonable.
I really don't think I need to teach you about the ethical repercussions of treating people as objects. I really don't.
Yes.But no, it is not "almost" as prevalent. It's prevalent, but objectification of women is ubiquitous.
Stop sexualizing men & women in media.
The only way we can really do that is by communicating our displeasure with it, and... boycotts, I guess.
Quote from: HurtfulTurkey on August 31, 2015, 03:25:16 PMTIL I can ignore well reasoned arguments because Reddit doesn't like the claimant.Not sure who you're referring to here.
...but that doesn't mean it's okay to CATER to sexist endeavors. I'm not a sexist, so I won't play sexist games.
Tropes vs. Women in Video Games: Women as Reward
