Tropes vs. Women in Video Games: Women as Reward

Verbatim · August 31, 2015, 11:37:43 AM

ITT:

Attacking Anita instead of her arguments. As usual.

i'll be back

Luciana · August 31, 2015, 11:40:03 AM

There is a reason people attack her. My problem with her arguments is she usually cherry picks and then shuts out anyone who wants to argue against what she's saying. She also fails to bring up men easily get sexualized left and right too. Both in video games and in commercials. ESPECIALLY commercials where they make guys seem like brutes or idiots all the time when they try and market a "PRODUCT FOR MEN".

Except Old Spice. Old Spice does it amazingly brilliant.

I agree with a lot of what she says, and it's obvious there is a problem. It's just how she goes about it... ugh. Well you know where I stand on it. I respect people like Emma Watson (it's becoming my fucking buzzword), because she's not just out demonizing men, and realizes men suffer just as much as women in society.

Mordo · August 31, 2015, 11:50:31 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on August 31, 2015, 11:34:49 AM

Quote from: unironically being ironic on August 31, 2015, 11:27:58 AM
Which is why the rest of my post asks her, and many other feminists, to clarify why this is such a moral grievance to women.
Because it treats women as though they are simple objects, rather than complex subjects.

Okay, but how does it harm women?

What are the wider sociocultural repercussions of treating women as 'objects'?

Does it affect men too seeing as how objectification of men is almost as prevalent?

What exactly are your solutions to this alleged problem?

maverick · August 31, 2015, 11:54:50 AM

Quote from: unironically being ironic on August 31, 2015, 11:50:31 AM

What are the wider sociocultural repercussions of treating women as 'objects'?

Does it affect men too seeing as how objectification of men is almost as prevalent?

What exactly are your solutions to this alleged problem?

None of this is addressed throughout the entire 33 minute video.

Mordo · August 31, 2015, 11:58:44 AM

Quote from: Maverick on August 31, 2015, 11:54:50 AM

Quote from: unironically being ironic on August 31, 2015, 11:50:31 AM
What are the wider sociocultural repercussions of treating women as 'objects'?

Does it affect men too seeing as how objectification of men is almost as prevalent?

What exactly are your solutions to this alleged problem?
None of this is addressed throughout the entire 33 minute video.

The whole problem with the objectification argument is that it treats a non issue as if it's an actual issue.

Okay, fictional women are being used as sexual tools to get men to buy something. Are they being coerced? Does it harm actual women in real life? I really don't see any problems or solutions that can arise from objectification besides telling people to grow some thick fucking skin.

Luciana · August 31, 2015, 12:01:17 PM

Someone brought up that the whole "big boobs are bad" argument is as well. As in, people who says female characters having big breasts is bad because it sexualizes women, so they need to bring it down.

Well apparently people fail to understand there are women who have a pretty big breast size. How are they supposed to feel when people instantly say "THATS WRONG!!!" when it's thrown in any form of media? Someone brought that up with Tifa and the remake of FF7, and it does bring up a point (because the girl, who happened to have big breasts, actually felt ashamed because of what I said).

I think the lesson everyone should take away is that any extreme opinions on sensitive issues is always and will always be bad and hurtful to the actual problem at hand, regardless of what it is.

Edit: Besides, if that's all you're focused on with Tifa, you've obviously never played the game because her personality and traits define her way more than her body ever would. She's a bad ass bitch who fights but has a caring, almost motherly side to her and she looks out after all of her friends. She's popular because not only can she look good, but she's a good person while doing it.

Luciana · August 31, 2015, 12:03:46 PM

Enough ranting... I have a headache and need to extract people in Ground Zeroes.

I love you all.

maverick · August 31, 2015, 12:07:02 PM

Quote from: unironically being ironic on August 31, 2015, 11:58:44 AM

Quote from: Maverick on August 31, 2015, 11:54:50 AM
Quote from: unironically being ironic on August 31, 2015, 11:50:31 AM
What are the wider sociocultural repercussions of treating women as 'objects'?

Does it affect men too seeing as how objectification of men is almost as prevalent?

What exactly are your solutions to this alleged problem?
None of this is addressed throughout the entire 33 minute video.
The whole problem with the objectification argument is that it treats a non issue as if it's an actual issue.

Okay, fictional women are being used as sexual tools to get men to buy something. Are they being coerced? Does it harm actual women in real life? I really don't see any problems or solutions that can arise from objectification besides telling people to grow some thick fucking skin.

That's exactly what I got out of the video. I was hoping she might provide some examples as to how these things lead to misogynistic behavior but she doesn't.

big dog · August 31, 2015, 12:25:49 PM

I personally think that Snipars does a much better job of tackling sexism in the industry.

YouTube

SecondClass · August 31, 2015, 12:34:53 PM

There's a lot of sexism in our society, and while I'd consider this bad, of course, it's not nearly as important as things like employment discrimination and the gender pay gap.

DAS B00T x2 · August 31, 2015, 12:45:56 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:34:53 PM

There's a lot of sexism in our society, and while I'd consider this bad, of course, it's not nearly as important as things like employment discrimination and the gender pay gap.

What pay gap?

Zizzy · August 31, 2015, 12:47:34 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:34:53 PM

the gender pay gap.

SecondClass · August 31, 2015, 12:50:10 PM

Quote from: GAIUS DASSIUS B00TSAR on August 31, 2015, 12:45:56 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:34:53 PM
There's a lot of sexism in our society, and while I'd consider this bad, of course, it's not nearly as important as things like employment discrimination and the gender pay gap.
What pay gap?

The fact that women make less than 70% of what men make on average is a much bigger deal than some video games showing boobies.

Mordo · August 31, 2015, 12:51:52 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:50:10 PM

Quote from: GAIUS DASSIUS B00TSAR on August 31, 2015, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:34:53 PM
There's a lot of sexism in our society, and while I'd consider this bad, of course, it's not nearly as important as things like employment discrimination and the gender pay gap.
What pay gap?
The fact that women make less than 70% of what men make

Zizzy · August 31, 2015, 12:52:18 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:50:10 PM

Quote from: GAIUS DASSIUS B00TSAR on August 31, 2015, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:34:53 PM
There's a lot of sexism in our society, and while I'd consider this bad, of course, it's not nearly as important as things like employment discrimination and the gender pay gap.
What pay gap?
The fact that women make less than 70% of what men make on average is a much bigger deal than some video games showing boobies.

That's by choice, because women tend to choose lower paying jobs despite the fact that they generally get better grades in school.

SecondClass · August 31, 2015, 12:52:38 PM

If you deny the gender wage gap you may as well deny global warming, too

fucking idiots

SecondClass · August 31, 2015, 12:53:37 PM

Quote from: Zizzy on August 31, 2015, 12:52:18 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:50:10 PM
Quote from: GAIUS DASSIUS B00TSAR on August 31, 2015, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:34:53 PM
There's a lot of sexism in our society, and while I'd consider this bad, of course, it's not nearly as important as things like employment discrimination and the gender pay gap.
What pay gap?
The fact that women make less than 70% of what men make on average is a much bigger deal than some video games showing boobies.
That's by choice, because women tend to choose lower paying jobs despite the fact that they generally get better grades in school.

LOL

sure, kid

they choose to get shitty jobs, they don't reluctantly accept them because it's the best they can get in our male-oriented society or anything

Mordo · August 31, 2015, 12:55:44 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:52:38 PM

If you deny the gender wage gap you may as well deny global warming, too

fucking idiots

It's not so much that the gap exists, it's where and how the data is collected that most people take umbrage with.

If you're going to analyse an economic gap with such broad church, asinine tendencies that don't reflect the choices women make then you can pretty much reach any kind of conclusion you want about the wage gap.

Mordo · August 31, 2015, 12:57:41 PM

YouTube

Incan · August 31, 2015, 01:01:08 PM

Quote from: 外ギン AVIATION on August 31, 2015, 12:57:41 PM

YouTube

I was 5 seconds away from linking this.

Super Irish · August 31, 2015, 01:08:28 PM

While I'd never deny that there is sexism in certain games, I would argue that they rarely influence someone in the real world, and in most cases it comes down to personal choice (I can, and do play GTA and FNV without interacting with the prostitutes, and the benefits these added features give is not needed to complete the game, rather a negligible advantage) or because it's a useful mechanic in-game (The Saboteur's kiss-the-girl-to-evade-capture is akin to jumping in a haystack in Assassin's Creed. Why they didn't just do that, is a good question). Just like violent video games don't make me go out and kill people, sexualisation in games doesn't make me a misogynist, or even wish to take part in these "features" if given the choice.

I'm not defending it (most of that stuff makes me uncomfortable while playing), I just don't believe it translates into real life.

Rinev · August 31, 2015, 01:54:57 PM

Although I do agree with most of the examples she gave, I don't think that it is a problem provided that it fits with the story, such as love scenes. They aren't necessary to the plot, but they can ad dept to the game by more intimately including the player into the life of the character.

gats · August 31, 2015, 02:18:26 PM

I'm with you on video game perversions, they are only included to further entice the male audience and that is something that needs to change

Jono · August 31, 2015, 02:24:19 PM

Anita Sarkeesian: "I'm not a gamer."

ALL OPINIONS DISREGARDED

Girl of Mystery · August 31, 2015, 02:34:52 PM

Reminder that Anita has no clue what she's blabbering on about, and uses the word feminism as an excuse to be a complete fucking idiot because "muh oppression by men".

She's cancerous to the actual feminist movement and actual feminists.

Luciana · August 31, 2015, 02:41:07 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:53:37 PM

Quote from: Zizzy on August 31, 2015, 12:52:18 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:50:10 PM
Quote from: GAIUS DASSIUS B00TSAR on August 31, 2015, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:34:53 PM
There's a lot of sexism in our society, and while I'd consider this bad, of course, it's not nearly as important as things like employment discrimination and the gender pay gap.
What pay gap?
The fact that women make less than 70% of what men make on average is a much bigger deal than some video games showing boobies.
That's by choice, because women tend to choose lower paying jobs despite the fact that they generally get better grades in school.
LOL

sure, kid

they choose to get shitty jobs, they don't reluctantly accept them because it's the best they can get in our male-oriented society or anything

No, he's actually right. Women work lower end jobs and lesser hours statistically than men.

Do a bit of research (such as watching that video above) before jumping on that bandwagon.

Luciana · August 31, 2015, 02:47:07 PM

The fact you said "kid" too is hilarious. You sound like a 14 year old xbox fan blabbing over the mic that they suck at CoD.

Girl of Mystery · August 31, 2015, 02:58:58 PM

Class is like, 19 too (with the mind of a child, mind you)
Aren't you older?

SecondClass · August 31, 2015, 03:05:13 PM

Quote from: Luciana on August 31, 2015, 02:41:07 PM

Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:53:37 PM
Quote from: Zizzy on August 31, 2015, 12:52:18 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:50:10 PM
Quote from: GAIUS DASSIUS B00TSAR on August 31, 2015, 12:45:56 PM
Quote from: SecondClass on August 31, 2015, 12:34:53 PM
There's a lot of sexism in our society, and while I'd consider this bad, of course, it's not nearly as important as things like employment discrimination and the gender pay gap.
What pay gap?
The fact that women make less than 70% of what men make on average is a much bigger deal than some video games showing boobies.
That's by choice, because women tend to choose lower paying jobs despite the fact that they generally get better grades in school.
LOL

sure, kid

they choose to get shitty jobs, they don't reluctantly accept them because it's the best they can get in our male-oriented society or anything
No, he's actually right. Women work lower end jobs and lesser hours statistically than men.

Do a bit of research (such as watching that video above) before jumping on that bandwagon.

I never disagreed with that. You obviously didn't read my post. They work lower end jobs and work lesser hours because it's generally the only choice they have. Because of, you know, sexism. If you have a woman who is applying to work at a company, they're far more likely to give her a worse job than a man. It's not like if you have two people, a man and a woman, in the exact same company and position, they'll be paid differently. I never said that. It's that women don't have the opportunities to get as good of jobs as men do.

Luciana · August 31, 2015, 03:06:21 PM

I like your damage control.

You're just repeating yourself twice over.

They have the same opportunities as men do. They aren't the blacks or something.

inb4Psy