oh you said competitive

well, I'm out. I'm as casual to pokemanz as I am to Super Smash (though I played every gen of Pokemon so eh). I just enjoy it.

wait, you ACTUALLY unironically play games how they're intended to be played?

what the fuck is wrong with you

Quote from: Verbatim on March 30, 2016, 07:15:18 PM

Quote from: Luciana on March 30, 2016, 07:12:20 PM

Their music, their looks, everything.

YouTube

you cannot tell me that their theme was bad

Now see THAT is okay, but I'm talking about the original renditions of them.

This song and looks

YouTube

YouTube

Is much worse than these Knights with arguably the best faction theme.

Speaking of music, idk if I like Hoenn's Elite Four theme better, or Unova's.

Hoenn Gen 3 had the best Elite 4 music imo. I love the clapping.

This is a Mega Metagross team I just thought up:

Spoiler

Metagross @ Metagrossite 
Ability: Clear Body 
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe 
Jolly Nature 
- Meteor Mash 
- Zen Headbutt 
- Hammer Arm 
- Grass Knot 

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest 
Ability: Guts 
EVs: 252 Atk / 236 SpD / 20 Spe 
Adamant Nature 
- Drain Punch 
- Mach Punch 
- Knock Off 
- Ice Punch 

Clefable @ Life Orb 
Ability: Magic Guard 
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD 
Modest Nature 
- Moonblast 
- Fire Blast 
- Soft-Boiled 
- Thunderbolt 

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf 
Ability: Levitate 
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe 
Timid Nature 
- Draco Meteor 
- Dark Pulse 
- Fire Blast 
- U-turn 

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge 
Ability: Regenerator 
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD 
Calm Nature 
- Spore 
- Giga Drain 
- Sludge Bomb 
- Clear Smog 

Blastoise @ Leftovers 
Ability: Torrent 
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA 
Bold Nature 
- Scald 
- Rapid Spin 
- Roar 
- Toxic 

Seem solid to anyone else?

Yeah, that seems pretty solid. I'd probably opt for a stronger spinner than Blastoise, though. It has two bad abilities and pretty mediocre stats all around--especially in that all-important speed stat. If you're hard-pressed on using it, I'd give it Rain Dish instead, on the off-chance that you'll be facing against a rain team. Otherwise, it's probably way too slow to make good use of Torrent. Like, ever. I'll leave that up to you.

Be wary of your lack of Ground-type coverage. Mega Manectric could be a slight problem for you.

Only reason I'd want to get into competitive pokemon is to run a Dragonite with Hyper Beam to finish off the final pokemon(s) the opponent may have. But I doubt it's anything for me. A lot of things to learn first and then the actual battles seem kinda boring.

Far from it, really. Trying to get inside your opponent's head and watching your battle plan come to fruition is quite a thrill.

You might be able to run a Hyper Beam Dragonite if you gave it a Power Herb... it's an item that makes it so you can skip the charge turn for moves like Skull Bash, Razor Wind, Sky Attack, and Hyper Beam.

Never mind, that wouldn't work, I'm dumb. Hyper Beam doesn't have a first turn charge--it has a second turn charge. So that wouldn't work.

Quote from: Verbatim on March 31, 2016, 12:25:06 PM

Quote from: Flee on March 31, 2016, 10:41:57 AM

Only reason I'd want to get into competitive pokemon is to run a Dragonite with Hyper Beam to finish off the final pokemon(s) the opponent may have. But I doubt it's anything for me. A lot of things to learn first and then the actual battles seem kinda boring.

Far from it, really. Trying to get inside your opponent's head and watching your battle plan come to fruition is quite a thrill.

You might be able to run a Hyper Beam Dragonite if you gave it a Power Herb... it's an item that makes it so you can skip the charge turn for moves like Skull Bash, Razor Wind, Sky Attack, and Hyper Beam.

Never mind, that wouldn't work, I'm dumb. Hyper Beam doesn't have a first turn charge--it has a second turn charge. So that wouldn't work.

Well that's too bad. And I'm sure it can still be fun, but it just seems so slow and a lot to learn to get into, no?

I mean, I play competitive games like Quake that are way more difficult to master than pokemon, but I feel like you can learn and grow a lot more as you play, which makes the whole experience a lot more fun. Pokémon seems to have a pretty low skill ceiling, but a decent entry barrier. Without knowing all of the types, matchups and strategies, you'll get owned badly. But once you do learn all of it, there doesn't seem to be much room to grow, so to say. Poor explanation, I know, but it's late and I'm on my phone.

I see what you mean, but I do think you're rather underselling the complexity of the Pokémon metagame a bit. It's not quite as easy as you describe--there's a lot more to it than just learning type matchups and attack moves, just as there's a lot more to martial arts than just memorizing a bunch of facts about it from a Wikipedia article. You're not gonna become a martial arts master by just knowing things about it.

I could easily make a similar statement about Quake, not ever having played it competitively. From my perspective, all you have to do is shoot your opponent before he shoots you. And, there--that's the limit of the game's depth. Now, obviously, I'm sure that's very far from the truth, but that's my point.

I could sit here and go over the intricacies of the EV/IV system, the fact that you can only have four moves at a time and how much that limits your options, the fact that you have to pick one ability or the other (can't have both), or that there's over 721 unique Pokémon to actually choose from to put on your team who all have different stats, capabilities, advantages, and disadvantages over each other, or the extremely delicate matter of choosing which items to apply to each of your Pokémon, or which Mega Evolution you want on your team, etc. etc.

And that's just building your team. The actual battles themselves are another story entirely. Being that you're pitting two human minds against each other, and giving them a wide selection of options, the possibilities and outcomes are endless.

Right now, you're used to NPC players never switching out their Pokémon in the single-player game, but remember--in a real match, both players can switch out their Pokémon at any time, and this is crucial. This is the entire game. You have to know not only what Pokémon you want to switch to, but when to switch, because switching at the wrong moment could result in your most important Pokémon getting OHKO'd. You have to keep your eye on your opponent all the while, playing mind games, and taking note of their habits or patterns so that you can be one step ahead of them at all times. It's like chess on speed.

It's not just a Tic-Tac-Toe pick-the-move-that's-super-effective snoozefest. That might have been the case in Generation I, where all you have to do was Hyper Beam or Earthquake or Body Slam your way to victory. So what if you paralyze me in Gen VI? Maybe I have an ability that doubles my speed if I get inflicted with some kind of status condition. You have to be aware and prepared for that shit.

Is it the most complicated game ever? Nah, not by a long shot. I just think there's a lot more to it than you realize, and as stated by someone who obviously hasn't really delved too deep into the competitive game before, I took a bit of umbrage with that.