The purpose of mods

big sponge · April 22, 2015, 09:39:42 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2015, 07:49:45 PM

Quote from: LC on April 22, 2015, 07:21:27 PM
You can like something and still recognize that it has faults and problems that can either be fixed or improved.
And it should be the developers' job to fix them. Not ours.

And why shouldn't I fix them if I can?

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I would not be able to get this same mileage out of vanilla Skyrim.
You probably shouldn't.

300 hours of one game? I'm not saying I haven't done that before, but that's still excessive.

Mods keep things fresh so it's quite easy to spend over 300 hours over a period of 5 years on a single game. On my next run of Skyrim I'm going to do a tropical overhaul with flintlock weapons and a piracy mod installed that gives me my own ship, lets me recruit a crew, and lets me set sail to do a bunch of random events that involve things like piracy (duh) and treasure hunting.

This isn't excessive if it's fun.

Verbatim · April 22, 2015, 09:43:09 PM

Quote from: LC on April 22, 2015, 09:39:42 PM

And why shouldn't I fix them if I can?

Because that's going to clue developers in to thinking that, "Hey, we don't have to put in all that much effort for our next game. The community will do it for us!"

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Mods keep things fresh so it's quite easy to spend over 300 hours over a period of 5 years on a single game. On my next run of Skyrim I'm going to do a tropical overhaul with flintlock weapons and a piracy mod installed that gives me my own ship, lets me recruit a crew, and lets me set sail to do a bunch of random events that involve things like piracy (duh) and treasure hunting.

This isn't excessive if it's fun.

It's excessive. Not to mention, that absolutely fucks up the lore, which is exactly what I mean when I say that it ruins the artistic integrity of the game.

If ruining art is your thing, what the fuck ever. But it's not mine.

Batch · April 22, 2015, 09:48:29 PM

How are graphical mods ruining art? Lets use Skyrim as an example, it didn't have any specific art style, it wanted to look real, modders were enhancing that experience. Also, Verb you need to remember, it's a game, meant to be fun. If someone wants to mod absurd things, that's probably because they want to have fun, not ruin it's artistic value.

Fun Verb, fun.

*sips tea*

big sponge · April 22, 2015, 09:53:36 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2015, 09:43:09 PM

Quote from: LC on April 22, 2015, 09:39:42 PM
And why shouldn't I fix them if I can?
Because that's going to clue developers in to thinking that, "Hey, we don't have to put in all that much effort for our next game. The community will do it for us!"

If their franchise is going to continue growing they can't. Companies like Bethesda know this which is exactly why they can't slack off. Especially since they have console ports that can't be modified due to the closed nature of those platforms.

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Mods keep things fresh so it's quite easy to spend over 300 hours over a period of 5 years on a single game. On my next run of Skyrim I'm going to do a tropical overhaul with flintlock weapons and a piracy mod installed that gives me my own ship, lets me recruit a crew, and lets me set sail to do a bunch of random events that involve things like piracy (duh) and treasure hunting.

This isn't excessive if it's fun.
It's excessive. Not to mention, that absolutely fucks up the lore, which is exactly what I mean when I say that it ruins the artistic integrity of the game.

If ruining art is your thing, what the fuck ever. But it's not mine.

You're the only one who considers this "ruining art". Even the developers support this kind of stuff.

Spoiler

Most of my playthroughs don't actually break lore. I'm doing the piracy one just for fun.

Verbatim · April 22, 2015, 09:59:43 PM

Quote from: LC on April 22, 2015, 09:53:36 PM

If their franchise is going to continue growing they can't. Companies like Bethesda know this which is exactly why they can't slack off. Especially since they have console ports that can't be modified due to the closed nature of those platforms.

Still, on principle, the game should be good out of the gate. If the game sucks, which it does, and is only made better with mods, then the game doesn't deserve to be played. Why don't these modders just make their own games, if they have so many bright ideas?

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You're the only one who considers this "ruining art".

Fuck. Guess I can't have my opinion anymore, then.

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Even the developers support this kind of stuff.

Yes, people are idiots. I'm well aware.

If I was a developer, I would be insulted if people started modding my games.
It would be a fucking insult.

Verbatim · April 22, 2015, 10:04:47 PM

Quote from: Batch on April 22, 2015, 09:48:29 PM

How are graphical mods ruining art?

Because it's not how the game was originally. That's the basic, fundamental problem I have with mods. They change the game. I don't like that. It just feels dirty as fuck, like someone got their grubby disgusting hands all over the touch screen of my laptop.

Batch · April 22, 2015, 10:05:54 PM

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Yes, people are idiots. I'm well aware.

If I was a developer, I would be insulted if people started modding my games.
It would be a fucking insult.

I dont understnad your logic, people put a lot of effort into these things, if I were a developer I'd be proud that my creation gave fruit to such creativity, such effort to us Devs couldn't, that's not insulting, its taking something great and making it better, if you dont see a sense of pride in being a part of that wonder, then it makes me glad you arent apart of the industry.

It may have been your creation, but it is not your right to force people to do with it what you want them to do.

*sips tea*

Batch · April 22, 2015, 10:08:46 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2015, 10:04:47 PM

Quote from: Batch on April 22, 2015, 09:48:29 PM
How are graphical mods ruining art?
Because it's not how the game was originally. That's the basic, fundamental problem I have with mods. They change the game. I don't like that. It just feels dirty as fuck, like someone got their grubby disgusting hands all over the touch screen of my laptop.

Except some of these mods are fixing glitches and bugs, that is not at all dirty. And if you think that adding a mod to make the world feel more alive is dirty, and adding a mod to change the motion of water is dirty. Or hell, the textures of fire, is dirty.

Son, you shoulda gone to Specsavers.

*sips tea*

Verbatim · April 22, 2015, 10:09:18 PM

Quote from: Batch on April 22, 2015, 10:05:54 PM

It may have been your creation, but it is not your right to force people to do with it what you want them to do.

Who said I'd force anyone to do anything? All I said is that I'd take it offensively. Because it IS offensive.

If I make a game, everything that's in the game is how I'd intend it to be. No, there are no beach volleyball courses. There are no fucking pirates. My game is my game. You fuck with my game, you're fucking with my art, and I take that offensively.

Verbatim · April 22, 2015, 10:12:00 PM

Quote from: Batch on April 22, 2015, 10:08:46 PM

Except some of these mods are fixing glitches and bugs

That's the devs' job. It's common knowledge among developers, too, that it's like a hydra. You patch a bug, only to have three more in its place. Like some amateur is gonna know what the fuck he's doing.

big sponge · April 22, 2015, 10:13:07 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2015, 09:59:43 PM

Quote from: LC on April 22, 2015, 09:53:36 PM
If their franchise is going to continue growing they can't. Companies like Bethesda know this which is exactly why they can't slack off. Especially since they have console ports that can't be modified due to the closed nature of those platforms.
Still, on principle, the game should be good out of the gate. If the game sucks, which it does, and is only made better with mods, then the game doesn't deserve to be played. Why don't these modders just make their own games, if they have so many bright ideas?

Because not everyone has the capital or the time to do so. Modding games can also be put into your portfolio for when you apply to places within the industry. I believe the guy who made Faalskaar ended up getting a job with Bungie for example.

Besides why make an entirely new one when you can just modify the old one?

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You're the only one who considers this "ruining art".
Fuck. Guess I can't have my opinion anymore, then.

I'm just saying, if the community and developers at large believe this to be a perfectly acceptable practice that does nothing to ruin their "art" then it's highly likely it's not them that the problem lies with. Especially when the developers (you know the people who made the "art") are encouraging people to modify their game to their liking and even putting out mods of their own for people to download.

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If I was a developer, I would be insulted if people started modding my games.
It would be a fucking insult.

I guess it's a good thing that you're not a developer then for your sake.

Nick McIntyre · April 22, 2015, 10:13:07 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2015, 10:09:18 PM

Quote from: Batch on April 22, 2015, 10:05:54 PM
It may have been your creation, but it is not your right to force people to do with it what you want them to do.
Who said I'd force anyone to do anything? All I said is that I'd take it offensively. Because it IS offensive.

If I make a game, everything that's in the game is how I'd intend it to be. No, there are no beach volleyball courses. There are no fucking pirates. My game is my game. You fuck with my game, you're fucking with my art, and I take that offensively.

AND then you sell that game to the public, who then do their own artistic creations within your game in the events it becomes too stale.

Batch · April 22, 2015, 10:14:48 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2015, 10:09:18 PM

Quote from: Batch on April 22, 2015, 10:05:54 PM
It may have been your creation, but it is not your right to force people to do with it what you want them to do.
Who said I'd force anyone to do anything? All I said is that I'd take it offensively. Because it IS offensive.

If I make a game, everything that's in the game is how I'd intend it to be. No, there are no beach volleyball courses. There are no fucking pirates. My game is my game. You fuck with my game, you're fucking with my art, and I take that offensively.

Except the game industry isn't that crystal clear these days. I'm sure the devs wanted to implement more, create more, make it more vast and vibrant, but this is still a business lets not forget. Unlike, traditional art, a lot of games have deadlines, goals to meet, money to make. So they try their best but I don't think all the time, what you are plated up to, is what the dish intended to be.

Mods are there to accomplish what the Devs didnt have enough time accomplish. Hell about a year or so after Skyrim came out the Devs released a texture pack, which clearly shows they couldnt do everything they wanted to on time.

So you hand it to the community, to do what you cannot. Now if we're talking about the sex mods, and the added gore or straight out satire mods, you need to remember, this is the internet, and I too would be quite unpleased if someone mad my game into a....'simulator' for certain things, but with the good, comes with the bad. It couldn't all offend you, I just dont see how.

*sips tea*

Verbatim · April 22, 2015, 10:15:32 PM

Quote from: Voro 'Cinotai on April 22, 2015, 10:13:07 PM

AND then you sell that game to the public, who then do their own artistic creations within your game in the events it becomes too stale.

That's why I'm not a game developer. I wouldn't be able to stand for that cuntflappery.

Batch · April 22, 2015, 10:15:43 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2015, 10:12:00 PM

Quote from: Batch on April 22, 2015, 10:08:46 PM
Except some of these mods are fixing glitches and bugs
That's the devs' job. It's common knowledge among developers, too, that it's like a hydra. You patch a bug, only to have three more in its place. Like some amateur is gonna know what the fuck he's doing.

But that's what you don't understand, they do, and they do fix a lot of the problems the devs couldnt.

*sips tea*

big sponge · April 22, 2015, 10:17:53 PM

Quote from: Batch on April 22, 2015, 10:14:48 PM

Hell about a year or so after Skyrim came out the Devs released a texture pack, which clearly shows they couldnt do everything they wanted to on time.

There were also other things like the Valve collab where they had one of the robots from portal 2 as a follower and a few of the devs went and released their own in house stuff (like scenic carriages) on their own.

Hahahaha very funny Zonda · April 22, 2015, 10:18:19 PM

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Verbatim · April 22, 2015, 10:19:30 PM

Then that's a flaw with the industry. You'd still probably use mods even if the developers could make their game exactly as they intended it to be, so...

big sponge · April 22, 2015, 10:19:32 PM

Quote from: ねこ on April 22, 2015, 10:18:19 PM

And everything was so peaceful yesterday that said mods are good for games

Well that's an undeniable fact. The issue is whether or not certain people approve of it.

Batch · April 22, 2015, 10:19:57 PM

Quote from: ねこ on April 22, 2015, 10:18:19 PM

And everything was so peaceful yesterday that said mods are good for games

We get Verb

And put him somewhere else

*sips tea*

Batch · April 22, 2015, 10:20:40 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2015, 10:19:30 PM

Then that's a flaw with the industry. You'd still probably use mods even if the developers could make their game exactly as they intended it to be, so...

Give me a perfect game then I'll tell you.

*sips tea*

Verbatim · April 22, 2015, 10:26:37 PM

Wind Waker, Super Metroid, and Super Mario World are basically flawless.

SMW happens to be the most popular game to ROM hack of all time.

TB · April 22, 2015, 10:27:25 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2015, 10:26:37 PM

Wind Waker, Super Metroid, and Super Mario World are basically flawless.

Damn right they are!

Batch · April 22, 2015, 10:30:29 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2015, 10:26:37 PM

SMW happens to be the most popular game to ROM hack of all time.

Now this is what I would find insulting.

*sips tea*

The Lord Ruler · April 22, 2015, 11:03:56 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on April 22, 2015, 07:38:14 PM

I want to state that I don't put condiments on my burger as I want to respect the work of the people at the grill that made it for me. Salt and pepper shakers are likewise, sin.

This is similar to something I was going to post. It's a good point.

Verbatim · April 22, 2015, 11:08:17 PM

Quote from: The Lord Ruler on April 22, 2015, 11:03:56 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on April 22, 2015, 07:38:14 PM
I want to state that I don't put condiments on my burger as I want to respect the work of the people at the grill that made it for me. Salt and pepper shakers are likewise, sin.
This is similar to something I was going to post. It's a good point.

But it isn't.

Food =/= art.

Even if it was, condiments are always on burgers anyway, unless you specify.

Batch · April 22, 2015, 11:08:58 PM

Quote from: The Lord Ruler on April 22, 2015, 11:03:56 PM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on April 22, 2015, 07:38:14 PM
I want to state that I don't put condiments on my burger as I want to respect the work of the people at the grill that made it for me. Salt and pepper shakers are likewise, sin.

This is similar to something I was going to post. It's a good point.

Dont you dare modify that lego set you monster.

*sips tea*

The Lord Ruler · April 22, 2015, 11:12:14 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on April 22, 2015, 11:08:17 PM

Quote from: The Lord Ruler on April 22, 2015, 11:03:56 PM
Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on April 22, 2015, 07:38:14 PM
I want to state that I don't put condiments on my burger as I want to respect the work of the people at the grill that made it for me. Salt and pepper shakers are likewise, sin.
This is similar to something I was going to post. It's a good point.
But it isn't.

Food =/= art.

Even if it was, condiments are always on burgers anyway, unless you specify.

Plenty of people consider food to be art.

Verbatim · April 22, 2015, 11:14:26 PM

Quote from: Batch on April 22, 2015, 11:08:58 PM

Dont you dare modify that lego set you monster.

*sips tea*

LEGOs are specifically intended for you to create what you want with them. 99% of video games are not.

Quote from: The Lord Ruler on April 22, 2015, 11:12:14 PM

Plenty of people consider food to be art.

You can make art with food, but food isn't in it of itself art.

Coco · April 22, 2015, 11:37:49 PM

"Programmers sure do hate when their efforts on a game engine go towards only one product and then never see the light of day again. Leave it the fuck alone, you amateur mongoloid."
-Phil Fish