Quote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:48:19 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:44:35 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:27:07 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:26:50 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:24:55 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:22:33 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:20:39 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:19:58 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:07:29 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:52:48 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 05:49:57 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:44:59 PMProbably because it's not an opinion and it's a fact?If it were a fact, then I couldn't possibly disagree with it.You disagree with a lot of facts.give me one reason to believe that PC graphics are objectively better than anything elseQuotehaving more detailed texturesi may like more detailed textures, but why is that objectively betterMore detailed > less detailedwhyBecause it looks better. Just like putting the settings on ultra instead of very low.why does it look betterYouTubeYou tell mei already agree that more detail is better, because that's my personal tastewhat i'm not understanding is how it's objectively betterwhich means that you believe that anyone who prefers less detail is wrongIf you prefer this over this then you have no right to talk about graphics and details.
Quote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:44:35 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:27:07 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:26:50 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:24:55 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:22:33 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:20:39 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:19:58 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:07:29 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:52:48 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 05:49:57 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:44:59 PMProbably because it's not an opinion and it's a fact?If it were a fact, then I couldn't possibly disagree with it.You disagree with a lot of facts.give me one reason to believe that PC graphics are objectively better than anything elseQuotehaving more detailed texturesi may like more detailed textures, but why is that objectively betterMore detailed > less detailedwhyBecause it looks better. Just like putting the settings on ultra instead of very low.why does it look betterYouTubeYou tell mei already agree that more detail is better, because that's my personal tastewhat i'm not understanding is how it's objectively betterwhich means that you believe that anyone who prefers less detail is wrong
Quote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:27:07 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:26:50 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:24:55 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:22:33 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:20:39 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:19:58 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:07:29 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:52:48 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 05:49:57 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:44:59 PMProbably because it's not an opinion and it's a fact?If it were a fact, then I couldn't possibly disagree with it.You disagree with a lot of facts.give me one reason to believe that PC graphics are objectively better than anything elseQuotehaving more detailed texturesi may like more detailed textures, but why is that objectively betterMore detailed > less detailedwhyBecause it looks better. Just like putting the settings on ultra instead of very low.why does it look betterYouTubeYou tell me
Quote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:26:50 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:24:55 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:22:33 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:20:39 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:19:58 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:07:29 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:52:48 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 05:49:57 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:44:59 PMProbably because it's not an opinion and it's a fact?If it were a fact, then I couldn't possibly disagree with it.You disagree with a lot of facts.give me one reason to believe that PC graphics are objectively better than anything elseQuotehaving more detailed texturesi may like more detailed textures, but why is that objectively betterMore detailed > less detailedwhyBecause it looks better. Just like putting the settings on ultra instead of very low.why does it look better
Quote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:24:55 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:22:33 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:20:39 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:19:58 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:07:29 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:52:48 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 05:49:57 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:44:59 PMProbably because it's not an opinion and it's a fact?If it were a fact, then I couldn't possibly disagree with it.You disagree with a lot of facts.give me one reason to believe that PC graphics are objectively better than anything elseQuotehaving more detailed texturesi may like more detailed textures, but why is that objectively betterMore detailed > less detailedwhyBecause it looks better. Just like putting the settings on ultra instead of very low.
Quote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:22:33 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:20:39 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:19:58 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:07:29 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:52:48 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 05:49:57 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:44:59 PMProbably because it's not an opinion and it's a fact?If it were a fact, then I couldn't possibly disagree with it.You disagree with a lot of facts.give me one reason to believe that PC graphics are objectively better than anything elseQuotehaving more detailed texturesi may like more detailed textures, but why is that objectively betterMore detailed > less detailedwhy
Quote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:20:39 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:19:58 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:07:29 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:52:48 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 05:49:57 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:44:59 PMProbably because it's not an opinion and it's a fact?If it were a fact, then I couldn't possibly disagree with it.You disagree with a lot of facts.give me one reason to believe that PC graphics are objectively better than anything elseQuotehaving more detailed texturesi may like more detailed textures, but why is that objectively betterMore detailed > less detailed
Quote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 06:19:58 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:07:29 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:52:48 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 05:49:57 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:44:59 PMProbably because it's not an opinion and it's a fact?If it were a fact, then I couldn't possibly disagree with it.You disagree with a lot of facts.give me one reason to believe that PC graphics are objectively better than anything elseQuotehaving more detailed texturesi may like more detailed textures, but why is that objectively better
Quote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:07:29 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:52:48 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 05:49:57 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:44:59 PMProbably because it's not an opinion and it's a fact?If it were a fact, then I couldn't possibly disagree with it.You disagree with a lot of facts.give me one reason to believe that PC graphics are objectively better than anything elseQuotehaving more detailed textures
Quote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:52:48 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 05:49:57 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:44:59 PMProbably because it's not an opinion and it's a fact?If it were a fact, then I couldn't possibly disagree with it.You disagree with a lot of facts.give me one reason to believe that PC graphics are objectively better than anything else
Quote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 05:49:57 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:44:59 PMProbably because it's not an opinion and it's a fact?If it were a fact, then I couldn't possibly disagree with it.You disagree with a lot of facts.
Quote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 05:44:59 PMProbably because it's not an opinion and it's a fact?If it were a fact, then I couldn't possibly disagree with it.
Probably because it's not an opinion and it's a fact?
having more detailed textures
Quote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:56:24 PMthe universe has no opinionput the tweed down
the universe has no opinion
Quote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 08:10:48 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 08:08:19 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:56:24 PMthe universe has no opinionput the tweed downnot an argumentThe universe isn't an argument, Stefan.
Quote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 08:08:19 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:56:24 PMthe universe has no opinionput the tweed downnot an argument
Quote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 08:19:28 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 08:13:30 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 08:10:48 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 08:08:19 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:56:24 PMthe universe has no opinionput the tweed downnot an argumentThe universe isn't an argument, Stefan.the argument is that there is no objective standard for what is better or worse when it comes to how human beings perceive thingsit's all in our headhow the fuck could anything regarding anything possibly be objectiveSo suffering isn't objectively bad?
Quote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 08:13:30 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 08:10:48 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 28, 2017, 08:08:19 PMQuote from: Verbatim on April 28, 2017, 06:56:24 PMthe universe has no opinionput the tweed downnot an argumentThe universe isn't an argument, Stefan.the argument is that there is no objective standard for what is better or worse when it comes to how human beings perceive thingsit's all in our headhow the fuck could anything regarding anything possibly be objective
I want the imperfections. I want the fuck-ups. They add a touch of humanity to the experience.
Verb is a hipster. This thread is proof.
art is an ongoing process, would you disagree with the creator if they wanted it to work as well as they could make it work
if someone were to draw a picture and spot many small imperfections, they would try and fix as many of them as much as possible, they want the version of the work they show to other people as good as they can make it, and as close as they can make it to their visionin the case of game development, now that creators have the ability to, they will patch the game themselves and keep fixing bugs (or at least do as much as they can) because they can, and it's the best version of their game they want you to play, it's the small imperfections and changes they don't like, so would you agree with those
if there were a game that is designed to run slowly all you need to do is hardcode an fps lockagain you wouldnt notice the difference either if you simply had the more powerful card and downclocked it to run as slow as the previous
game developers themselves are always talking about how they want more powerful hardware to work with so they have more room to work in, namely console developers who are often saying things like "with the power of the PS4"of course its still your opinion if you prefer playing the original versions, even if the remakes where made by the same developers with the same team and art direction who want a second chance to try and create a version of the game more in-line with their vision, because suddenly, "they have the technology" or suchyou can still say you prefer one over the other, however you can't disagree with the creator's intent
were it possible, I'm sure the developers would've wanted to have made ocarina of time run at a billion fps with breath of the wild graphics, and for the most part I'm also pretty sure the developer would have wanted players to have as smooth and unhindered experience as possible, not to mention, performance and lack of bugs are the pride of software developers - they will (usually) strive to achieve the best possible results within a deadline
QuoteSo we left them in if they didn’t cause any trouble and were beneficial.The game was improved.
So we left them in if they didn’t cause any trouble and were beneficial.
Quote from: Verbatim on April 29, 2017, 05:42:35 PMQuote from: challengerX on April 29, 2017, 05:37:09 PMQuoteSo we left them in if they didn’t cause any trouble and were beneficial.The game was improved.Not objectively.
Quote from: challengerX on April 29, 2017, 05:37:09 PMQuoteSo we left them in if they didn’t cause any trouble and were beneficial.The game was improved.Not objectively.
I don't understand Verb, superior hardware is indeed better than whatever previous hardware it's replacing. I mean, a TI-84 Silver Edition is much better than a TI-83 calculator, you can like the 83 as much as you want but that won't make it better than the TI-84. Same reason how a state of the art PC is much better and advanced than an Apple II. Or how the Super Nintendo is obviously superior to the NES, its much, much better as it's tech can make for better games in several aways aside from graphics, like sound and memory space. I'm not saying graphics matter, but games are the sum of its parts. You can have the prettiest game ever but if the other categories suck then the game will suck. You can also have the ugliest game ever but have the specs good it will still not sell well. And I'm not talking about deliberately art style choices like Minecraft or indie games.
Quote from: Yang on April 29, 2017, 09:32:51 PMI don't understand Verb, superior hardware is indeed better than whatever previous hardware it's replacing. I mean, a TI-84 Silver Edition is much better than a TI-83 calculator, you can like the 83 as much as you want but that won't make it better than the TI-84. Same reason how a state of the art PC is much better and advanced than an Apple II. Or how the Super Nintendo is obviously superior to the NES, its much, much better as it's tech can make for better games in several aways aside from graphics, like sound and memory space. I'm not saying graphics matter, but games are the sum of its parts. You can have the prettiest game ever but if the other categories suck then the game will suck. You can also have the ugliest game ever but have the specs good it will still not sell well. And I'm not talking about deliberately art style choices like Minecraft or indie games.I get what you're saying, and I realize that what I'm saying seems kinda weird, but you have to understand that the conversation we're having is primarily about art, and not necessarily technological progression.Taking your calculator example, you're right: a TI-84 SE is technologically superior to a regular TI-84. You'd also be right to say that a modern PC is technologically superior to an Apple II.But when you say that they're objectively superior, that's when things get iffy in my eyes. We're thinking on two different standpoints. Objectivity is a much loftier concept than I think most people care to think about. If you take the term literally, you're basically saying that a PC is better than an Apple II in every conceivable way--not just technologically, but artistically too.And we know that's not entirely true, because if you wanted to make a documentary about the history of Apple products, it wouldn't make any sense if you only talked about the iPhone 7, right? Especially if your reasoning is, "the iPhone 7 is objectively better than the other iPhones, so that's all we're going to show."That would be kinda silly, wouldn't it? So, on some level, you would have to concede that there is no objectivity here in the literal sense. It's simply a matter of what you need at the time; "superiority" is merely relative.Think about it. There are times when having an old Macintosh computer would be incredibly handy, and indeed superior to having a new computer--like, if you wanted to show your kids how primitive computers used to be, or if you're making a movie set in a specific time period where new-fangled computers didn't even exist. Seriously, when directors forget to make sure that everything in the movie actually makes sense for the time period, does that not degrade the quality of the movie for you, even slightly?I mean, obviously, not everyone cares, but it's definitely a big deal for me. It shows that the director gave a shit.It's an easy thing to overlook, because when we compare and evaluate technology, we don't ever think about it in an artistic sense. We only tend to think about it in a practical sense, because practicality is relevant--so I guess can't really blame anyone for not thinking beyond that. I am thinking beyond that, though, and that's what the thread is about: The use of limited or outdated technology for the sake of art, and how it has the potential to create more beautiful and meaningful art than new technology--so long as people use their imaginations a little bit. It's a very, very pro-art sentiment, and a simple acknowledgement that not everything has to be state-of-the-art all the time.Hopefully that made sense.
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SNES is superior to whatever came before it. You can play your little hipster bullshit all you want. The calculator is superior to the abacus.
Quote from: challengerX on April 30, 2017, 05:12:11 AMSNES is superior to whatever came before it. You can play your little hipster bullshit all you want. The calculator is superior to the abacus.Technologically.
Quote from: Verbatim on April 30, 2017, 10:33:09 AMQuote from: challengerX on April 30, 2017, 05:12:11 AMSNES is superior to whatever came before it. You can play your little hipster bullshit all you want. The calculator is superior to the abacus.Technologically.I believe that is what he's been arguing the entire time.
Quote from: Verbatim on April 29, 2017, 05:22:34 PM.authenticity is something you wont notice with different hardware unless that specific hardware has something others dont, if for the sake of authenticity you choose a new card over an old one, you can bet the newer one can do everything the old one can do and morelets say you were a filmmaker and you had camera x and y, they both had same picture quality, they compatibility with lens a, but camera y also has compatibility with lens beverything else about the camera is the same, except camera y is the newer model with no discernable difference other than extended compatibility with another lens, would there be a reason to go with camera x over camera y if you just needed to use lens a and camera y was cheaper
Quote from: Pepsi on April 30, 2017, 07:38:35 AMQuote from: Verbatim on April 29, 2017, 05:22:34 PM.authenticity is something you wont notice with different hardware unless that specific hardware has something others dont, if for the sake of authenticity you choose a new card over an old one, you can bet the newer one can do everything the old one can do and morelets say you were a filmmaker and you had camera x and y, they both had same picture quality, they compatibility with lens a, but camera y also has compatibility with lens beverything else about the camera is the same, except camera y is the newer model with no discernable difference other than extended compatibility with another lens, would there be a reason to go with camera x over camera y if you just needed to use lens a and camera y was cheaperI already went over this--whether the player notices anything is not the point. In this case, it's not about what you notice--it's about what's actually being used. The price argument is still there, too. Perhaps the artist doesn't want to give the consumer a price burden to enjoy his art, or something. It's safe to assume that cameras A and B are going to be cheaper than Y, yes? So a weaker graphics card is going to be cheaper too, I would then assume.Fun fact: there was a short film made in 1964 by Andy Warhol called Blow Job. It's basically just a 30-minute closeup of a man's face as he receives oral sex from another man off-camera. Pure kino.The film was shot in 24fps, but Warhol himself specifies that the film should be projected in 16fps.Why? I have no fucking idea. "Isn't that worse?" Presumably. That's what he wanted, though.