So, The Last of Us 2 leaks....

Ehnsanity · May 02, 2020, 10:47:17 PM

https://youtu.be/ZBRweN2ed0o

Yikes, to make matters worse Sony/Naughty Dog has been going around censoring videos that talk about it (not even showing footage mind you, just talking about it) in an effort to contain how hated this game has become in the last week. I reckon it’ll flop harder than BF5. Naughty Dog apparently also consulted Anita Sarkeesian for TLOU2, make what you will of that

Ian · May 02, 2020, 10:55:56 PM

I saw the leaks; what a fucking dumpster fire this game is going to be.

Assassin 11D7 · May 02, 2020, 10:57:12 PM

#Invalid YouTube Link#

HRT, SON. THEY DILATE IN RESPONSE TO TRAUMA

https://youtu.be/k9OtSDqxqsg

Ehnsanity · May 02, 2020, 11:02:49 PM

Quote from: Ian on May 02, 2020, 10:55:56 PM

I saw the leaks; what a fucking dumpster fire this game is going to be.

It’s not helping their case considering their approach to the hate is the same as Patrick Soderlund’s “Don’t like it? Don’t buy it” statement when people were in uproar about BF5’s controversy. People listened and didn’t buy it, why ND/Sony is trying to be stand offish with the community is suicide considering not even 2 years ago an example got made of DICE for doing the same thing.

Ian · May 02, 2020, 11:14:20 PM

Get woke, go broke.

No one is buying a zombie game to see two lesbians get beat up by a tranny.

Quote from: Ehnsanity on May 02, 2020, 11:02:49 PM

It’s not helping their case considering their approach to the hate is the same as Patrick Soderlund’s “Don’t like it? Don’t buy it” statement when people were in uproar about BF5’s controversy. People listened and didn’t buy it, why ND/Sony is trying to be stand offish with the community is suicide considering not even 2 years ago an example got made of DICE for doing the same thing.

CMD.exe · May 03, 2020, 12:15:24 AM

Spoiler

I hear they're introducing a new character named Locke comes out as trans and beats Chief to death with a Golf Club and Linda is the main antagonist and also Kelly is having Linda's baby.

Glad I was never invested in this series.

Ingy · May 03, 2020, 07:42:00 AM

Gimme a quick rundown of the complaints

Ehnsanity · May 03, 2020, 08:32:49 AM

Spoiler

People are angry that you only play half of the game as Ellie (they’re also making her evil) and the other half as the daughter of a surgeon Joel killed at the end of TLOU (I shit you not) who beats the shit out of Ellie and kills Joel with a fucking golf club, that’s the gist of it but if you look further into you can you get a more detailed explanation

To top it off, ND is abusing the copyright strike system to censor any videos or memes about TLOU 2 using a front website with no credentials or legal department (highly illegal). There’s evidence that Anita Sarkeesian was also involved in the development of the plot of the game which resulted in it turning into SJW fan fiction.

Ingy · May 03, 2020, 09:43:57 AM

Quote from: Ehnsanity on May 03, 2020, 08:32:49 AM

Spoiler
People are angry that you only play half of the game as Ellie (they’re also making her evil) and the other half as the daughter of a surgeon Joel killed at the end of TLOU (I shit you not) who beats the shit out of Ellie and kills Joel with a fucking golf club, that’s the gist of it but if you look further into you can you get a more detailed explanation

To top it off, ND is abusing the copyright strike system to censor any videos or memes about TLOU 2 using a front website with no credentials or legal department (highly illegal). There’s evidence that Anita Sarkeesian was also involved in the development of the plot of the game which resulted in it turning into SJW fan fiction.

If Joel dies I'm never buying another ND game again

Onion · May 03, 2020, 04:02:10 PM

Spoiler

don't really care about these complaints, but why is the plot walking dead

Mordo · May 03, 2020, 11:20:15 PM

Never really played the first one but what's with this sUbVErTiNg eXpEcTaTiOnS hard on in pop culture recently? Sometimes I think it's an attempt to replicate the game of thrones effect, but surely that's a prime example of how NOT to execute it.

Ingy · May 04, 2020, 12:40:53 AM

Quote from: Mordo on May 03, 2020, 11:20:15 PM

Never really played the first one but what's with this sUbVErTiNg eXpEcTaTiOnS hard on in pop culture recently? Sometimes I think it's an attempt to replicate the game of thrones effect, but surely that's a prime example of how NOT to execute it.

What do you mean?
Examples?

Mordo · May 04, 2020, 01:12:24 AM

Quote from: Ingy on May 04, 2020, 12:40:53 AM

Quote from: Mordo on May 03, 2020, 11:20:15 PM
Never really played the first one but what's with this sUbVErTiNg eXpEcTaTiOnS hard on in pop culture recently? Sometimes I think it's an attempt to replicate the game of thrones effect, but surely that's a prime example of how NOT to execute it.

What do you mean?
Examples?

Last Jedi

New Terminator

GoT*

All of them had those "gotcha" moments that tried to be edgy and subversive but really just ended up being disjointed and incoherent.

Also apparently Picard is taking a weird and wacky turn but I'm not a Trekkie so I can't comment.

*Season 8 specifically.

Ehnsanity · May 04, 2020, 09:37:25 AM

Quote from: Mordo on May 04, 2020, 01:12:24 AM

Quote from: Ingy on May 04, 2020, 12:40:53 AM
Quote from: Mordo on May 03, 2020, 11:20:15 PM
Never really played the first one but what's with this sUbVErTiNg eXpEcTaTiOnS hard on in pop culture recently? Sometimes I think it's an attempt to replicate the game of thrones effect, but surely that's a prime example of how NOT to execute it.

What do you mean?
Examples?
Last Jedi

New Terminator

GoT

All of them had those "gotcha" moments that tried to be edgy and subversive but really just ended up being disjointed and incoherent.

Also apparently Picard is taking a weird and wacky turn but I'm not a Trekkie so I can't comment.

As you said, they’re attempting to mimic the GoT effect like The Red/Purple Wedding or Oberyn’s death but they’re missing a critical component that made them such good twists to begin with.

They made sense for the progression of the plot, Robb was fucked after executing Karstark among other things and Walter Frey was an incredibly untrustworthy individual. Tywin has shown through character that he is relentless, cares little for human life and dignity (seeing them more as pawns) and will do whatever he can to win for his house. That’s why when the Red Wedding came along, people were shocked but at the same time couldn’t be surprised that it happened, it was bound to happen.

The same logic happens with Joffrey, he’s shown to be an asshole to the public (and most importantly shown a psychopathic monster to Olenna who is in the process of beginning a power move to take the throne using Margaery) so when he is poisoned people aren’t shocked it happened or that it was out of the blue, it was coming and foreshadowed.

Oberyn is shown to be a hot headed and prideful individual from the very first scene he’s introduced in (stabbing a Lannister soldiers hand for singing) as well as his burning desire for justice for his sister. He can’t kill the Mountain without getting a confession which results in him losing when he had the upper hand because of his overconfidence and blind fixation on justice.

What all of these have in common, is that they make sense. Most new expectation subversions like Dany suddenly going apeshit or just TLJ as a movie don’t have a motivation behind them and only serve as a “lol gotcha” moment from narcissistic directors that think they just wrote a magnum opus because what happened wasn’t what the audience was expecting to happen.

Mordo · May 04, 2020, 10:00:07 AM

Quote from: Ehnsanity on May 04, 2020, 09:37:25 AM

Not only that, but GoT established pretty early on that there are real and palpable consequences within the foundations of the universe. Trying to apply that to the standard blockbuster formula or hero's journey just doesn't gel all that well because it's never been established that actual real world consequences occur.

Imagine if in LOTR Gimley killed Sauron in the 2nd movie and the 3rd movie is about trying to kill Grima Wormtongue or some bizarre shit. That's the kind of fuckery these clown directors are trying to replicate just to ride that GoT gravy train.

Dan · May 04, 2020, 10:16:37 PM

Nah, The Last Jedi was dope af.

You're damned if you subvert expectations and you're damned if you give the fans what they want.

Personally, I don't care what the fans want. All that matters is the artist's vision for the film; Artists with integrity ignore the opinions and wants of their fans.

Ian · May 04, 2020, 10:40:41 PM

Name one situation where this was ever the case and there weren't other factors at play.

Quote from: Dan on May 04, 2020, 10:16:37 PM

and you're damned if you give the fans what they want.

Mordo · May 05, 2020, 04:42:23 PM

Quote from: Dan on May 04, 2020, 10:16:37 PM

Nah, The Last Jedi was dope af.

You're damned if you subvert expectations and you're damned if you give the fans what they want.

Personally, I don't care what the fans want. All that matters is the artist's vision for the film; Artists with integrity ignore the opinions and wants of their fans.

There's having an artistic vision and then there's being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

If you're trying to argue that the meandering mess of TLJ and its contradictory character development is an artistic vision, then sorry to say, it's not a very good one.

Verbatim · May 05, 2020, 04:43:24 PM

Quote from: Mordo on May 05, 2020, 04:42:23 PM

Quote from: Dan on May 04, 2020, 10:16:37 PM
Nah, The Last Jedi was dope af.

You're damned if you subvert expectations and you're damned if you give the fans what they want.

Personally, I don't care what the fans want. All that matters is the artist's vision for the film; Artists with integrity ignore the opinions and wants of their fans.
There's having an artistic vision and then there's being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

If you're trying to argue that the meandering mess of TLJ and its contradictory character development is an artistic vision, then sorry to say, it's not a very good one.

still the best one in the film franchise

Mordo · May 05, 2020, 04:45:34 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 05, 2020, 04:43:24 PM

Quote from: Mordo on May 05, 2020, 04:42:23 PM
Quote from: Dan on May 04, 2020, 10:16:37 PM
Nah, The Last Jedi was dope af.

You're damned if you subvert expectations and you're damned if you give the fans what they want.

Personally, I don't care what the fans want. All that matters is the artist's vision for the film; Artists with integrity ignore the opinions and wants of their fans.
There's having an artistic vision and then there's being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

If you're trying to argue that the meandering mess of TLJ and its contradictory character development is an artistic vision, then sorry to say, it's not a very good one.
still the best one in the film franchise

Nope.

Verbatim · May 05, 2020, 04:48:23 PM

Quote from: Mordo on May 05, 2020, 04:45:34 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 05, 2020, 04:43:24 PM
Quote from: Mordo on May 05, 2020, 04:42:23 PM
Quote from: Dan on May 04, 2020, 10:16:37 PM
Nah, The Last Jedi was dope af.

You're damned if you subvert expectations and you're damned if you give the fans what they want.

Personally, I don't care what the fans want. All that matters is the artist's vision for the film; Artists with integrity ignore the opinions and wants of their fans.
There's having an artistic vision and then there's being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

If you're trying to argue that the meandering mess of TLJ and its contradictory character development is an artistic vision, then sorry to say, it's not a very good one.
still the best one in the film franchise
Nope.

what do you mean by "contradictory character development" anyway

i swear to god, if you're talking about how luke was written

Mordo · May 05, 2020, 05:08:29 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 05, 2020, 04:48:23 PM

Quote from: Mordo on May 05, 2020, 04:45:34 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on May 05, 2020, 04:43:24 PM
Quote from: Mordo on May 05, 2020, 04:42:23 PM
Quote from: Dan on May 04, 2020, 10:16:37 PM
Nah, The Last Jedi was dope af.

You're damned if you subvert expectations and you're damned if you give the fans what they want.

Personally, I don't care what the fans want. All that matters is the artist's vision for the film; Artists with integrity ignore the opinions and wants of their fans.
There's having an artistic vision and then there's being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

If you're trying to argue that the meandering mess of TLJ and its contradictory character development is an artistic vision, then sorry to say, it's not a very good one.
still the best one in the film franchise
Nope.
what do you mean by "contradictory character development" anyway

i swear to god, if you're talking about how luke was written

The fact that Kylo was being built up to be Vader 2.0 but instead turned into some Linkin Park tier rage autist.

The fact that Finn was, well I don't even fucking know what he was meant to be in that movie. If it was comic relief then it was executed abysmally. He ended up just being a non entity character.

And yeah, the fact that Lukes characterisation was essentially intergalactic Tom Hanks in Castaway that does absolutely nothing throughout the film with the exception of being a lame bait and switch "gotcha" moment for Kylo in the climax.

PTSD Luke as a concept could've been done really well too.

CMD.exe · May 05, 2020, 08:46:54 PM

Quote from: Mordo on May 05, 2020, 05:08:29 PM

The fact that Kylo was being built up to be Vader 2.0

No he wasnt. He WANTED to be Vader but never could be. He never even actually understood who Vader or even Anakin really was and was all the while struggling with his pull back to the light side of the force. TFA pretty strongly established that.

I swear people litteraly can't see these movies for what they are beyond their own headcanon or what they remember from legends.

The onlt bad parts of TLJ were Canto Blighttown and Rose in the last act.

Verbatim · May 05, 2020, 09:28:51 PM

Quote from: Mordo on May 05, 2020, 05:08:29 PM

The fact that Kylo was being built up to be Vader 2.0 but instead turned into some Linkin Park tier rage autist.

The fact that Finn was, well I don't even fucking know what he was meant to be in that movie. If it was comic relief then it was executed abysmally. He ended up just being a non entity character.

And yeah, the fact that Lukes characterisation was essentially intergalactic Tom Hanks in Castaway that does absolutely nothing throughout the film with the exception of being a lame bait and switch "gotcha" moment for Kylo in the climax.

PTSD Luke as a concept could've been done really well too.

i personally don't enjoy it when characters are written with cookiecutters, much less under the auspices of fanboys on how characters "should" act

and are you seriously implying that Darth Vader 2.0 wouldn't have been the lamest and most uninteresting route they could've taken with kylo ren's character

Mordo · May 06, 2020, 07:17:00 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 05, 2020, 09:28:51 PM

Quote from: Mordo on May 05, 2020, 05:08:29 PM
The fact that Kylo was being built up to be Vader 2.0 but instead turned into some Linkin Park tier rage autist.

The fact that Finn was, well I don't even fucking know what he was meant to be in that movie. If it was comic relief then it was executed abysmally. He ended up just being a non entity character.

And yeah, the fact that Lukes characterisation was essentially intergalactic Tom Hanks in Castaway that does absolutely nothing throughout the film with the exception of being a lame bait and switch "gotcha" moment for Kylo in the climax.

PTSD Luke as a concept could've been done really well too.
i personally don't enjoy it when characters are written with cookiecutters, much less under the auspices of fanboys on how characters "should" act

and are you seriously implying that Darth Vader 2.0 wouldn't have been the lamest and most uninteresting route they could've taken with kylo ren's character

I'm not implying anything. I'm saying the groundwork that was established in FA was completely 180'd in TLJ, making the movie and the trilogy as a whole one big incoherent disconnect.

Verbatim · May 06, 2020, 02:02:17 PM

Quote

I'm not implying anything. I'm saying the groundwork that was established in FA was completely 180'd in TLJ, making the movie and the trilogy as a whole one big incoherent disconnect.

the most i can agree with this statement is that rian johnson's desire to stick it to the fanboys was markedly transparent over the course of the movie, but that's ultimately the main reason why i like it in the first place

beyond that, i'm not terribly interested in how the films cohere—i'm just glad that johnson did what he did, even if TRoS suffered for it, because star wars fans are so insufferable that they had this middle finger coming for decades (besides, i think tragic stuff like the unfortunate passing of carrie fisher ultimately did more damage to the film than johnson's writing ever could)

Mordo · May 06, 2020, 03:21:42 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 06, 2020, 02:02:17 PM

Quote from: Mordo on May 06, 2020, 07:17:00 AM
I'm not implying anything. I'm saying the groundwork that was established in FA was completely 180'd in TLJ, making the movie and the trilogy as a whole one big incoherent disconnect.
the most i can agree with this statement is that rian johnson's desire to stick it to the fanboys was markedly transparent over the course of the movie, but that's ultimately the main reason why i like it in the first place

beyond that, i'm not terribly interested in how the films cohere—i'm just glad that johnson did what he did, even if it TRoS suffered for it, because star wars fans are so insufferable that they had this middle finger coming for decades (besides, i think tragic stuff like the unfortunate passing of carrie fisher ultimately did more damage to the film than johnson's writing ever could)

Okay sure, but none of this improves the shitty quality of the movie.

Mmmmm Napalm · May 06, 2020, 06:55:18 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on May 06, 2020, 02:02:17 PM

Quote from: Mordo on May 06, 2020, 07:17:00 AM
I'm not implying anything. I'm saying the groundwork that was established in FA was completely 180'd in TLJ, making the movie and the trilogy as a whole one big incoherent disconnect.
the most i can agree with this statement is that rian johnson's desire to stick it to the fanboys was markedly transparent over the course of the movie, but that's ultimately the main reason why i like it in the first place

beyond that, i'm not terribly interested in how the films cohere—i'm just glad that johnson did what he did, even if it TRoS suffered for it, because star wars fans are so insufferable that they had this middle finger coming for decades (besides, i think tragic stuff like the unfortunate passing of carrie fisher ultimately did more damage to the film than johnson's writing ever could)

Okay, but I'm sure that you'd admit that your sentiments are the result of spite on your part?

I liked tlj on release, but in hindsight I don't find it to be a narratively satisfying film.

Verbatim · May 06, 2020, 07:42:23 PM

Quote from: Mmmmm Napalm on May 06, 2020, 06:55:18 PM

Okay, but I'm sure that you'd admit that your sentiments are the result of spite on your part?

I liked tlj on release, but in hindsight I don't find it to be a narratively satisfying film.

not entirely, because i did thoroughly enjoy the film, and thought several of the more "controversial" writing decisions were genuinely brilliant, relative to what we've come to expect from star wars—the fact that fanboys were blown the fuck out is just icing on the cake

adam driver and mark hamill, no matter what you think of their characters, gave genuinely amazing performances and are a delight to watch in every scene that they're in

snoke's death (and the whole build-up to it) was fucking awesome, and the single best climax in the series

i also enjoyed how the whole ben solo incident was told, with the three flashbacks from differing perspectives that only give bits and pieces of the full story before the whole truth is revealed—each version of the story adds context, but doesn't invalidate the previous one, because you can see where the misunderstanding happened

it's like the people who thought luke's character was butchered only took ben's side of the story to heart, when it's obvious that by the time the full story is told, luke only momentarily thought to kill ben because of his PTSD, which should be perfectly understandable even if you think a younger luke wouldn't have done that (despite RotJ painting some obvious shades of grey into his moral compass anyway, so you can't even argue that it's un-luke)

i find that star wars fans literally only care about story when there's so much more about to appreciate about movies—TLJ in particular treats us to some of the most visually interesting scenes in the whole series, and i'm not just talking about lightsaber battles; what about the mirror cave sequence? find me a scene in the original trilogy that dared to go in a weird artsy direction like that (you can't because the original star wars movie was a hackjob that was saved in editing)

TLJ was also very funny, which is refreshing because star wars has always been incredibly sterile when it comes to humor

there's more to appreciate but that's just off the top of my head

i don't know what "narratively satisfying" means if you weren't satisfied by TLJ honestly

Mordo · May 06, 2020, 08:38:12 PM

Quote

TLJ was also very funny, which is refreshing because star wars has always been incredibly sterile when it comes to humor

Quote

snoke's death (and the whole build-up to it) was fucking awesome, and the single best climax in the series

Quote

i find that star wars fans literally only care about story when there's so much more about to appreciate about movies—TLJ in particular treats us to some of the most visually interesting scenes in the whole series, and i'm not just talking about lightsaber battles; what about the mirror cave sequence? find me a scene in the original trilogy that dared to go in a weird artsy direction like that (you can't because the original star wars movie was a hackjob that was saved in editing)