Doesn't the game also praise women by showing that they too can ruthlessly beat the shit out of people as well as anyone else?To me that seems the exact opposite of objectifying women.
They are rarely capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure, and only the shit games don't evoke pleasure. Even the most artistic games that I think have come as close as possible to art I still feel fall short (Dark Souls being an example). Even the most barbaric, anti-art art out there (noise, black metal, whatever) can still give the person something to think about. I think the only true art games are ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, and no other game has come close except the Dark/Demon's Souls.
But lets put aside that argument anyway. Even if you do feel that games are art, Street Fighter most CERTAINLY is not. It's entertainment, not art. Iron Man is a fun movie, it's not art. I love listening to shit like Blondie, but it's not art. Fright Night is a fun ass movie, it's not art.
Quote from: The Lord Ruler on November 10, 2015, 12:41:02 PMDoesn't the game also praise women by showing that they too can ruthlessly beat the shit out of people as well as anyone else?To me that seems the exact opposite of objectifying women.That's an interesting point, but I would just say that, in terms of the push-pull women are receiving, women are still in the hole in terms of representation. Because while men are sexualized to an extent, females are sexualized way more. And unless you want dick physics in a fighting game to go along with women's breast physics, I think lowering the level of female sexualization would be the more preferable option.
Quote from: Verbatim on November 10, 2015, 12:46:19 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:40:14 PMThey are rarely capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure, and only the shit games don't evoke pleasure. Even the most artistic games that I think have come as close as possible to art I still feel fall short (Dark Souls being an example). Even the most barbaric, anti-art art out there (noise, black metal, whatever) can still give the person something to think about. I think the only true art games are ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, and no other game has come close except the Dark/Demon's Souls.all i got out of this is that you don't play video gamesQuoteBut lets put aside that argument anyway. Even if you do feel that games are art, Street Fighter most CERTAINLY is not. It's entertainment, not art. Iron Man is a fun movie, it's not art. I love listening to shit like Blondie, but it's not art. Fright Night is a fun ass movie, it's not art.wowdefine "art", thenwhat is jim's definition of "art"Art:-It makes an attempt to provoke an emotion from the person admiring it. Good or bad it doesn't matter, but if all it tries to provoke is pleasure then it's not art.-Art allows you to develop your own interpretations of what it means (which is why I find the nihilistic theme of Dark Souls interesting)-Art is not made to be accessible, even if it turns out that way, but most art is not easily accessible and challenges you in some way.Street Fighter is a fighting game with absolutely no attempt at driving home an underlying theme, it provokes no emotion other than pleasure, it's just some dudes beating eachother up because it's fun as shit. It's easily accessible, albeit hard to get good at.
Quote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:40:14 PMThey are rarely capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure, and only the shit games don't evoke pleasure. Even the most artistic games that I think have come as close as possible to art I still feel fall short (Dark Souls being an example). Even the most barbaric, anti-art art out there (noise, black metal, whatever) can still give the person something to think about. I think the only true art games are ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, and no other game has come close except the Dark/Demon's Souls.all i got out of this is that you don't play video gamesQuoteBut lets put aside that argument anyway. Even if you do feel that games are art, Street Fighter most CERTAINLY is not. It's entertainment, not art. Iron Man is a fun movie, it's not art. I love listening to shit like Blondie, but it's not art. Fright Night is a fun ass movie, it's not art.wowdefine "art", thenwhat is jim's definition of "art"
Quote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 12:56:55 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:52:25 PMQuote from: Verbatim on November 10, 2015, 12:46:19 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:40:14 PMThey are rarely capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure, and only the shit games don't evoke pleasure. Even the most artistic games that I think have come as close as possible to art I still feel fall short (Dark Souls being an example). Even the most barbaric, anti-art art out there (noise, black metal, whatever) can still give the person something to think about. I think the only true art games are ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, and no other game has come close except the Dark/Demon's Souls.all i got out of this is that you don't play video gamesQuoteBut lets put aside that argument anyway. Even if you do feel that games are art, Street Fighter most CERTAINLY is not. It's entertainment, not art. Iron Man is a fun movie, it's not art. I love listening to shit like Blondie, but it's not art. Fright Night is a fun ass movie, it's not art.wowdefine "art", thenwhat is jim's definition of "art"Art:-It makes an attempt to provoke an emotion from the person admiring it. Good or bad it doesn't matter, but if all it tries to provoke is pleasure then it's not art.-Art allows you to develop your own interpretations of what it means (which is why I find the nihilistic theme of Dark Souls interesting)-Art is not made to be accessible, even if it turns out that way, but most art is not easily accessible and challenges you in some way.Street Fighter is a fighting game with absolutely no attempt at driving home an underlying theme, it provokes no emotion other than pleasure, it's just some dudes beating eachother up because it's fun as shit. It's easily accessible, albeit hard to get good at.You're just too stupid to see the true artistic expression hidden in the subtext of the game.I can see it in plenty, but it struggles to make itself clear and ultimately ends up failing.Name some games that you think are art.
Quote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:52:25 PMQuote from: Verbatim on November 10, 2015, 12:46:19 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:40:14 PMThey are rarely capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure, and only the shit games don't evoke pleasure. Even the most artistic games that I think have come as close as possible to art I still feel fall short (Dark Souls being an example). Even the most barbaric, anti-art art out there (noise, black metal, whatever) can still give the person something to think about. I think the only true art games are ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, and no other game has come close except the Dark/Demon's Souls.all i got out of this is that you don't play video gamesQuoteBut lets put aside that argument anyway. Even if you do feel that games are art, Street Fighter most CERTAINLY is not. It's entertainment, not art. Iron Man is a fun movie, it's not art. I love listening to shit like Blondie, but it's not art. Fright Night is a fun ass movie, it's not art.wowdefine "art", thenwhat is jim's definition of "art"Art:-It makes an attempt to provoke an emotion from the person admiring it. Good or bad it doesn't matter, but if all it tries to provoke is pleasure then it's not art.-Art allows you to develop your own interpretations of what it means (which is why I find the nihilistic theme of Dark Souls interesting)-Art is not made to be accessible, even if it turns out that way, but most art is not easily accessible and challenges you in some way.Street Fighter is a fighting game with absolutely no attempt at driving home an underlying theme, it provokes no emotion other than pleasure, it's just some dudes beating eachother up because it's fun as shit. It's easily accessible, albeit hard to get good at.You're just too stupid to see the true artistic expression hidden in the subtext of the game.
Quote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 12:59:05 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:57:44 PMQuote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 12:56:55 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:52:25 PMQuote from: Verbatim on November 10, 2015, 12:46:19 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:40:14 PMThey are rarely capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure, and only the shit games don't evoke pleasure. Even the most artistic games that I think have come as close as possible to art I still feel fall short (Dark Souls being an example). Even the most barbaric, anti-art art out there (noise, black metal, whatever) can still give the person something to think about. I think the only true art games are ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, and no other game has come close except the Dark/Demon's Souls.all i got out of this is that you don't play video gamesQuoteBut lets put aside that argument anyway. Even if you do feel that games are art, Street Fighter most CERTAINLY is not. It's entertainment, not art. Iron Man is a fun movie, it's not art. I love listening to shit like Blondie, but it's not art. Fright Night is a fun ass movie, it's not art.wowdefine "art", thenwhat is jim's definition of "art"Art:-It makes an attempt to provoke an emotion from the person admiring it. Good or bad it doesn't matter, but if all it tries to provoke is pleasure then it's not art.-Art allows you to develop your own interpretations of what it means (which is why I find the nihilistic theme of Dark Souls interesting)-Art is not made to be accessible, even if it turns out that way, but most art is not easily accessible and challenges you in some way.Street Fighter is a fighting game with absolutely no attempt at driving home an underlying theme, it provokes no emotion other than pleasure, it's just some dudes beating eachother up because it's fun as shit. It's easily accessible, albeit hard to get good at.You're just too stupid to see the true artistic expression hidden in the subtext of the game.I can see it in plenty, but it struggles to make itself clear and ultimately ends up failing.Name some games that you think are art.All games are art to some degree.Just because something isn't good art, or complex art, does not mean it is not art.Wrong. Try again.
Quote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:57:44 PMQuote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 12:56:55 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:52:25 PMQuote from: Verbatim on November 10, 2015, 12:46:19 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:40:14 PMThey are rarely capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure, and only the shit games don't evoke pleasure. Even the most artistic games that I think have come as close as possible to art I still feel fall short (Dark Souls being an example). Even the most barbaric, anti-art art out there (noise, black metal, whatever) can still give the person something to think about. I think the only true art games are ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, and no other game has come close except the Dark/Demon's Souls.all i got out of this is that you don't play video gamesQuoteBut lets put aside that argument anyway. Even if you do feel that games are art, Street Fighter most CERTAINLY is not. It's entertainment, not art. Iron Man is a fun movie, it's not art. I love listening to shit like Blondie, but it's not art. Fright Night is a fun ass movie, it's not art.wowdefine "art", thenwhat is jim's definition of "art"Art:-It makes an attempt to provoke an emotion from the person admiring it. Good or bad it doesn't matter, but if all it tries to provoke is pleasure then it's not art.-Art allows you to develop your own interpretations of what it means (which is why I find the nihilistic theme of Dark Souls interesting)-Art is not made to be accessible, even if it turns out that way, but most art is not easily accessible and challenges you in some way.Street Fighter is a fighting game with absolutely no attempt at driving home an underlying theme, it provokes no emotion other than pleasure, it's just some dudes beating eachother up because it's fun as shit. It's easily accessible, albeit hard to get good at.You're just too stupid to see the true artistic expression hidden in the subtext of the game.I can see it in plenty, but it struggles to make itself clear and ultimately ends up failing.Name some games that you think are art.All games are art to some degree.Just because something isn't good art, or complex art, does not mean it is not art.
-It makes an attempt to provoke an emotion from the person admiring it. Good or bad it doesn't matter, but if all it tries to provoke is pleasure then it's not art.
-Art allows you to develop your own interpretations of what it means (which is why I find the nihilistic theme of Dark Souls interesting)
-Art is not made to be accessible, even if it turns out that way, but most art is not easily accessible and challenges you in some way.
hard to get good at.
Quote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 01:02:45 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 01:00:05 PMQuote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 12:59:05 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:57:44 PMQuote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 12:56:55 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:52:25 PMQuote from: Verbatim on November 10, 2015, 12:46:19 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:40:14 PMThey are rarely capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure, and only the shit games don't evoke pleasure. Even the most artistic games that I think have come as close as possible to art I still feel fall short (Dark Souls being an example). Even the most barbaric, anti-art art out there (noise, black metal, whatever) can still give the person something to think about. I think the only true art games are ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, and no other game has come close except the Dark/Demon's Souls.all i got out of this is that you don't play video gamesQuoteBut lets put aside that argument anyway. Even if you do feel that games are art, Street Fighter most CERTAINLY is not. It's entertainment, not art. Iron Man is a fun movie, it's not art. I love listening to shit like Blondie, but it's not art. Fright Night is a fun ass movie, it's not art.wowdefine "art", thenwhat is jim's definition of "art"Art:-It makes an attempt to provoke an emotion from the person admiring it. Good or bad it doesn't matter, but if all it tries to provoke is pleasure then it's not art.-Art allows you to develop your own interpretations of what it means (which is why I find the nihilistic theme of Dark Souls interesting)-Art is not made to be accessible, even if it turns out that way, but most art is not easily accessible and challenges you in some way.Street Fighter is a fighting game with absolutely no attempt at driving home an underlying theme, it provokes no emotion other than pleasure, it's just some dudes beating eachother up because it's fun as shit. It's easily accessible, albeit hard to get good at.You're just too stupid to see the true artistic expression hidden in the subtext of the game.I can see it in plenty, but it struggles to make itself clear and ultimately ends up failing.Name some games that you think are art.All games are art to some degree.Just because something isn't good art, or complex art, does not mean it is not art.Wrong. Try again.Why is pleasure not a legitimate emotion to evoke with art? Does not all art actually seek this, as ultimately a player is supposed to feel satisfied with the ultimate experience, whether it was tragic or light. Is a fighting game not a fun representation of how diverse people show off their unique skills and quirks on an equal field of combat? What about these things makes them definitively not art?I never said it wasn't legitimate, but barring a handful of games, no games are capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure aside from maybe a few cheap "boohoo sad cry" moments that really don't make you feel anything.Fighting games are not art in the same way sports are not art. They are competitive entertainment, but they are not capable of provoking the players into meaningful thought or discussion.
Quote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 01:00:05 PMQuote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 12:59:05 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:57:44 PMQuote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 12:56:55 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:52:25 PMQuote from: Verbatim on November 10, 2015, 12:46:19 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:40:14 PMThey are rarely capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure, and only the shit games don't evoke pleasure. Even the most artistic games that I think have come as close as possible to art I still feel fall short (Dark Souls being an example). Even the most barbaric, anti-art art out there (noise, black metal, whatever) can still give the person something to think about. I think the only true art games are ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, and no other game has come close except the Dark/Demon's Souls.all i got out of this is that you don't play video gamesQuoteBut lets put aside that argument anyway. Even if you do feel that games are art, Street Fighter most CERTAINLY is not. It's entertainment, not art. Iron Man is a fun movie, it's not art. I love listening to shit like Blondie, but it's not art. Fright Night is a fun ass movie, it's not art.wowdefine "art", thenwhat is jim's definition of "art"Art:-It makes an attempt to provoke an emotion from the person admiring it. Good or bad it doesn't matter, but if all it tries to provoke is pleasure then it's not art.-Art allows you to develop your own interpretations of what it means (which is why I find the nihilistic theme of Dark Souls interesting)-Art is not made to be accessible, even if it turns out that way, but most art is not easily accessible and challenges you in some way.Street Fighter is a fighting game with absolutely no attempt at driving home an underlying theme, it provokes no emotion other than pleasure, it's just some dudes beating eachother up because it's fun as shit. It's easily accessible, albeit hard to get good at.You're just too stupid to see the true artistic expression hidden in the subtext of the game.I can see it in plenty, but it struggles to make itself clear and ultimately ends up failing.Name some games that you think are art.All games are art to some degree.Just because something isn't good art, or complex art, does not mean it is not art.Wrong. Try again.Why is pleasure not a legitimate emotion to evoke with art? Does not all art actually seek this, as ultimately a player is supposed to feel satisfied with the ultimate experience, whether it was tragic or light. Is a fighting game not a fun representation of how diverse people show off their unique skills and quirks on an equal field of combat? What about these things makes them definitively not art?
>Wrong. Never in my life have any games, with the exception of some I mentioned already, ever made me feel ANYTHING other than pleasure.
>Yes, and most have absolutely no grounds to base this reasoning on. It's akin to the "ASH WAS ASLEEP THE WHOLE TIME XDDD" Pokemon theory.
Quote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 01:09:36 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 01:08:04 PMQuote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 01:02:45 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 01:00:05 PMQuote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 12:59:05 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:57:44 PMQuote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 12:56:55 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:52:25 PMQuote from: Verbatim on November 10, 2015, 12:46:19 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:40:14 PMThey are rarely capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure, and only the shit games don't evoke pleasure. Even the most artistic games that I think have come as close as possible to art I still feel fall short (Dark Souls being an example). Even the most barbaric, anti-art art out there (noise, black metal, whatever) can still give the person something to think about. I think the only true art games are ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, and no other game has come close except the Dark/Demon's Souls.all i got out of this is that you don't play video gamesQuoteBut lets put aside that argument anyway. Even if you do feel that games are art, Street Fighter most CERTAINLY is not. It's entertainment, not art. Iron Man is a fun movie, it's not art. I love listening to shit like Blondie, but it's not art. Fright Night is a fun ass movie, it's not art.wowdefine "art", thenwhat is jim's definition of "art"Art:-It makes an attempt to provoke an emotion from the person admiring it. Good or bad it doesn't matter, but if all it tries to provoke is pleasure then it's not art.-Art allows you to develop your own interpretations of what it means (which is why I find the nihilistic theme of Dark Souls interesting)-Art is not made to be accessible, even if it turns out that way, but most art is not easily accessible and challenges you in some way.Street Fighter is a fighting game with absolutely no attempt at driving home an underlying theme, it provokes no emotion other than pleasure, it's just some dudes beating eachother up because it's fun as shit. It's easily accessible, albeit hard to get good at.You're just too stupid to see the true artistic expression hidden in the subtext of the game.I can see it in plenty, but it struggles to make itself clear and ultimately ends up failing.Name some games that you think are art.All games are art to some degree.Just because something isn't good art, or complex art, does not mean it is not art.Wrong. Try again.Why is pleasure not a legitimate emotion to evoke with art? Does not all art actually seek this, as ultimately a player is supposed to feel satisfied with the ultimate experience, whether it was tragic or light. Is a fighting game not a fun representation of how diverse people show off their unique skills and quirks on an equal field of combat? What about these things makes them definitively not art?I never said it wasn't legitimate, but barring a handful of games, no games are capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure aside from maybe a few cheap "boohoo sad cry" moments that really don't make you feel anything.Fighting games are not art in the same way sports are not art. They are competitive entertainment, but they are not capable of provoking the players into meaningful thought or discussion.literally anecdoteYou have yet to name me a game that you truly think is art. If you can provide me an example of a game where you think you feel something other than pleasure, go for it.
Quote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 01:08:04 PMQuote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 01:02:45 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 01:00:05 PMQuote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 12:59:05 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:57:44 PMQuote from: eggsalad on November 10, 2015, 12:56:55 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:52:25 PMQuote from: Verbatim on November 10, 2015, 12:46:19 PMQuote from: Jim on November 10, 2015, 12:40:14 PMThey are rarely capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure, and only the shit games don't evoke pleasure. Even the most artistic games that I think have come as close as possible to art I still feel fall short (Dark Souls being an example). Even the most barbaric, anti-art art out there (noise, black metal, whatever) can still give the person something to think about. I think the only true art games are ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, and no other game has come close except the Dark/Demon's Souls.all i got out of this is that you don't play video gamesQuoteBut lets put aside that argument anyway. Even if you do feel that games are art, Street Fighter most CERTAINLY is not. It's entertainment, not art. Iron Man is a fun movie, it's not art. I love listening to shit like Blondie, but it's not art. Fright Night is a fun ass movie, it's not art.wowdefine "art", thenwhat is jim's definition of "art"Art:-It makes an attempt to provoke an emotion from the person admiring it. Good or bad it doesn't matter, but if all it tries to provoke is pleasure then it's not art.-Art allows you to develop your own interpretations of what it means (which is why I find the nihilistic theme of Dark Souls interesting)-Art is not made to be accessible, even if it turns out that way, but most art is not easily accessible and challenges you in some way.Street Fighter is a fighting game with absolutely no attempt at driving home an underlying theme, it provokes no emotion other than pleasure, it's just some dudes beating eachother up because it's fun as shit. It's easily accessible, albeit hard to get good at.You're just too stupid to see the true artistic expression hidden in the subtext of the game.I can see it in plenty, but it struggles to make itself clear and ultimately ends up failing.Name some games that you think are art.All games are art to some degree.Just because something isn't good art, or complex art, does not mean it is not art.Wrong. Try again.Why is pleasure not a legitimate emotion to evoke with art? Does not all art actually seek this, as ultimately a player is supposed to feel satisfied with the ultimate experience, whether it was tragic or light. Is a fighting game not a fun representation of how diverse people show off their unique skills and quirks on an equal field of combat? What about these things makes them definitively not art?I never said it wasn't legitimate, but barring a handful of games, no games are capable of evoking any feeling other than pleasure aside from maybe a few cheap "boohoo sad cry" moments that really don't make you feel anything.Fighting games are not art in the same way sports are not art. They are competitive entertainment, but they are not capable of provoking the players into meaningful thought or discussion.literally anecdote
Also I've taken more of an experience from MOBA's than Journey or Antichamber because it succeeds completely at being able to suck you into the competitive spirit, to make you feel proud of your mastery, to make you feel that flow with your favorite character, it's an artistic experience that the developers intentionally foster when they make the game.
Provocative animations removed from Street Fighter V build
