Got the Nova skin so now it's time to main Widowmaker

Quote from: Aether on January 29, 2018, 12:49:43 PM

I got turned off from Overwatch when Blizzard decided to start monitoring people's social media for the ever so vague scourge of online gaming, "toxic behavior." That shit sounds ripe for abuse.

Shit talk and banter has always been a part of competitive play, and I don't have faith that video game devs are capable of understanding the nuance and context of every situation with the potential to offend someone.

This seems like a bit of an overstated issue. Seems to me like they're just going to look at controversial gameplay on YouTube and Twitch to pick up on abusive behavior that might not have been reported. I'd be very surprised if they'd care about your everyday banter. Blizzard will likely just focus on the people putting out blatantly abusive content or being in those recordings, and there's plenty of them out there. I recently saw a video on Reddit where some guy constantly harassed female players in voice chat until they stopped talking completely and followed them around as Mei to put icewalls in front of them every few seconds. We don't know enough details yet, but I'd applaud them for going above and beyond their game to pick up on that stuff and put an end to it. Cautious props to them for raising the bar of in-game moderation.

I'm not accusing them of being abusive yet, let me just clarify that. I'm turned off by their decision mostly out of principle. Toxicity is arbitrary and the idea of a person being excluded from a game, possibly permanently, because of a decision made by a game developer taking the position of a moral arbiter for the community. . . in fact the idea of a developer taking the position of moral arbiter to begin with. .  well it just isn't something I feel comfortable supporting, and abuse is absolutely a possibility with this new policy regardless of whether or not you believe it's an overstatement.

Blizzard makes games, I don't trust them to decide on what ultimately is or is not offensive to players. I don't trust any developer to decide that. I'm willing to compromise at the level of developers banning words like 'nigger' from gamertags or taking action against players for throwing games, cheating, preventing other players from playing properly etc. That level of moderation is basically essential for online games to function well. But if some kid just generally shit talks to the other team indiscriminately when he plays and makes videos then I don't believe any action should be taken against him. That, I would say, is overreaching.

Blizzard can certainly do whatever they want with Overwatch, it's their game. We'll just have to wait and see whether or not they take it that far, and I probably won't be playing again until I know how this plays out.

Quote from: Aether on January 29, 2018, 03:23:15 PM

I'm not accusing them of being abusive yet, let me just clarify that. I'm turned off by their decision mostly out of principle. Toxicity is arbitrary and the idea of a person being excluded from a game, possibly permanently, because of a decision made by a game developer taking the position of a moral arbiter for the community. . . in fact the idea of a developer taking the position of moral arbiter to begin with. .  well it just isn't something I feel comfortable supporting, and abuse is absolutely a possibility with this new policy regardless of whether or not you believe it's an overstatement.

Blizzard makes games, I don't trust them to decide on what ultimately is or is not offensive to players. I don't trust any developer to decide that. I'm willing to compromise at the level of developers banning words like 'nigger' from gamertags or taking action against players for throwing games, cheating, preventing other players from playing properly etc. That level of moderation is basically essential for online games to function well. But if some kid just generally shit talks to the other team indiscriminately when he plays and makes videos then I don't believe any action should be taken against him. That, I would say, is overreaching.

Blizzard can certainly do whatever they want with Overwatch, it's their game. We'll just have to wait and see whether or not they take it that far, and I probably won't be playing again until I know how this plays out.

I see where you're coming from, but how is it any different from just about any other online platform or service? The issue you have with this is that the developers are being a "moral arbiter" of sorts, but I don't see how that differs from what Blizzard and hundreds of others have already been doing for years. Webhosts, social media, forums and marketplaces do it. Microsoft, Sony, Bungie.net, Facebook, Twitter and even this very site all act like a moral arbiter and decide on what's essentially a moral code of conduct that involves the exclusion of people who don't abide. And as is the case with any kind of rule or law, this needs to be sufficiently vague to be applied to practical situations which naturally involves a certain amount of discretion. This is nothing new and companies setting and enforcing a code of conduct for their platform / service by acting as a "moral arbiter" has been around for decades, more often than not without solely relying on a report function to bring abuisve behavior to their attention. You say you're not comfortable with a developer being a moral arbiter, but many of them already are. And while not technically a developer in this instance, Valve also has its own rules of conduct for Steam and has been sanctioning toxic people in its community for years.

So I'm not really sure if we're on the same page about what their new policy is, as I don't really see how you're fine with using these other sites and services then. The only difference here is that Blizzard doesn't just rely on reports but also monitors what happens in-game through other means, which is something that happens elswhere just the same. To my knowledge, Blizzard hasn't changed their actual policy one bit. They've just made it so that they're better equipped to pick up on behavior that would have already been breaking the rules before.

Well I figured I explained the moral arbiter issue well enough. I know any platform has to enforce certain rules, and I don't think there's anything unreasonable about that. I detailed the level at which I am willing to compromise because that is the level I find reasonable. My concern is how likely is it that things will go beyond that level, to the level of abuse.

The difference for me is that they are now going beyond their own platforms to look for problems. They're going the extra mile to curb 'toxic behavior,' a very broad and ultimately subjective term to be sure, in this turbulent climate of taking offense to just about everything we currently find ourselves in.

It isn't that they've been abusive yet, it's that the potential for abuse is becoming more and more evident as these policies progress, but also as the sentiment surrounding them progresses alongside this very vocal culture of outrage. And as it has gone with so many other companies, I think the chances that Blizzard may capitulate to the demands of a minority of overly sensitive and highly vocal players (perhaps even people that aren't even players, but merely wish to exercise ideological influence over things they don't like) . . well I think they're too high for my tastes.

If this wasn't just so happening at a time when so many organizations, whether governmental, business, or academic are trying to accommodate a person's feelings, even sometimes at the expense of truth itself, then I might not have such a bad feeling about all of this.

Like I said, I'm not blaming Blizzard for any form of abuse yet, I'm just waiting to see how this plays out. Maybe they'll stay fair. Maybe they will respect the values of freedom of expression. I certainly hope so, and if they do then they'll have my respect.

I just don't want to see this morph into WOTC scenario over time, where they're banning players for posting controversial opinions on external private social media, that has nothing to do with the games they make.

Oh I'm not planning on stopping playing forever or anything. Not unless they actually start abusing the new policy. I don't expect Blizzard specifically to be abusive. I don't have any real negative bias towards them as a company, and I would like to think that they aren't abusive. It's just that I've seen this same sort of sentiment slowly morph into abuse over time from other organizations having been watching the social-political landscape more intently than I ever have really over the past two or so years now.

This seems all too familiar to me and it's that uneasy feeling I'm getting from this that is turning me away from virtually anything right now that is taking new steps to prevent 'abuse.' It's because what actually constitutes abuse seems to be constantly shifting towards things that are more and more benign in nature. I just can't be sure of whether or not it's an appeal to this outrage culture we find ourselves in currently. I certainly hope it isn't, and I'll surely be one to give Blizzard props if they remain fair.

Like I said, if this wasn't happening during a time where taking offense to everything has become the new 'cool' thing to do, then I probably would've have such an uneasy feeling about it.

Also, I'm not very privy to the extent of the bans WOTC dished out to certain players. I simply know that they banned one of their most prominent players for having posted something deemed controversial on a private facebook group. Something entirely disconnected from MTG itself from what I've heard on multiple accounts, and if WOTC is truly banning players for expressing controversial opinions in a private setting away from any platform owned or associated with WOTC, that I would say is taking it too far.

As for the sacrifice of truth for the sake of feelings, yes it is happening. And in universities of all places. The idea that humans are born as a blank slate, the denial of biological differences between the sexes, the idea of the scientific method being an oppressive tool of western colonialism, these are sentiments that have been expressed in academic institutions as of late. The vast majority of students don't seem to share them, thankfully, but they have no place in a university, and the fact that untruth is being tolerated now, presumably to not upset certain people, is unacceptable to me. But anyways, I digress and this thread is about Overwatch. It looks like we at least understand each other even if we don't exactly agree so lets just leave it at that.

and Mercy just got nerfed again. no more dual rez and slower valk speed. rip mercy, it was nice to see you in the game for a few months before putting you back on the shelf.

Is this a thread or a thesis

oh btw the seasonal event is live since yesterday

Brigitte confirmed bois

damn Brigitte is a support, there's no way i can play her now.