"I'll Keep Coming." | Death Stranding, A Kojima Productions Thread

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Deja-Vu is also pretty good.

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Awesome work.

I'm not sure if I'd be happy or angry if Konami went back and made a reconstructed DLC (similar to KOTOR 2's unofficial Restored Content Mod) including cut content such as the abundance of unused Kiefer lines; because keep in mind that these lines aren't all that were cut, just what was still in the game's files.

I'm not sure if I'd be happy or angry if Konami went back and made a reconstructed DLC (similar to KOTOR 2's unofficial Restored Content Mod) including cut content such as the abundance of unused Kiefer lines; because keep in mind that these lines aren't all that were cut, just what was still in the game's files.

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"Some day we'll have no need for the gun... or the hand that pulls the trigger."

That entire speech confirms that Kojima CAN write. Someone fucked with his shit, man. FUCK.

I would welcome a restored version, but I doubt Konami is going to do ANYTHING regarding Metal Gear on consoles come December.

I just don't understand where these publishers are getting these fucking RETARDED ideas to fuck with games. Greedy sons of bitches.

People like to say that it's because of Kojima's $80 million budget, but MGS4 was $60 million and a PS3 exclusive. If Konami was pissed because of the budget, Kojima would have been fired years ago.

Also, I've seen it brought up a lot recently that nobody ever explained why he was fired. The most desperate are considering it a part of the ruse-cruise in conjunction with the Black Hound ARG.

Also, this excellently written >Kotaku article sums up my feelings for the ending perfectly. Spoilers, obviously.

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In true Kojima style, Metal Gear Solid V ends with a mindblowing twist: Turns out you weren’t actually playing as Big Boss! As the opening hospital scene hinted, your character was just a decoy, installed as leader of Mother Base to protect the real Big Boss, who got to ride off on a motorbike and do peyote in New Mexico for a while. Somehow, thanks to plastic surgery and, uh, nanomachines?, Zero and Miller were able to transform that random medic from Ground Zeroes into someone with the face, build, memories, and skills of the world’s most legendary soldier.

Scrutinized in a vacuum, this twist is kind of neat—turns out the “legend” of Big Boss had always trumped the man himself—but the harder you think, the more it unravels, leading to all sorts of questions with no clear answers. For example: If Zero can use hypnotherapy to transform a random medic into a supersoldier on par with Big Boss, why didn’t he do it to other people? Why even bother with the Les Enfants Terribles cloning project? And how exactly does hypnotherapy infuse someone with all of someone’s memories?

Speaking of unanswered questions: Why do we never get to see the after-effects of Venom Snake’s big revelation? Why does Ocelot feel like such a different person in MGSV? Why is Miller so evil? Why is Skull Face’s motivation so flimsy, and just what was he doing behind-the-scenes during Operation Snake Eater? What was up with Snake not saying a word during that giant monologue/musical interlude? What happened to the Camp Omega return that Kojima promised last year? What’s the deal with the Third Child? Is he really Psycho Mantis? Where did Eli and Sahelanthropus go? (Oh, right, that part wasn’t finished.)

But forget about all that for a few minutes. Let’s talk about the biggest problem with Metal Gear Solid V’s ending.



If you have completed The Phantom Pain, you will no doubt remember Mission 43. It’s the one called ‘Shining Lights, Even In Death.’ In this mission, you find out that there’s been a new outbreak of deadly vocal parasites at Mother Base, and that the victims have been quarantined. You—Venom Snake—have to go into the medical platform and figure out what’s happening. As you explore the quarantine zone—which is scary and evocative in all the best ways—you gradually realize that you’re going to have to kill anyone who’s infected. You’re going to have to murder your own troops.

As you proceed, you’re given a pair of night-vision goggles that can detect infections in soldiers, giving you the hope that maybe some of them aren’t actually infected. This, of course, is Kojima fucking with you: Every single one of them is infected. You have to shoot them all, one by one, cringing as the game tells you you’re losing points because your goddamn soldiers are dying. Occasionally their names pop up, reminding you that you recruited and may have even used these men and women in the field, and now you have to murder them. It’s the best mission in the game and it makes for one serious punch in the gut.

Metal Gear Solid V was always supposed to be the missing link in the series, the game that explains how Big Boss transformed from the heroic, idealistic soldier of MGS3 to the big bad villain of the first Metal Gear. As I played through Mission 43, it felt like I was watching that evolution. Here, punctuated by Huey’s screams of disbelief, we got to watch Big Boss transform from inspiring leader to cold-blooded murderer. It was a harrowing experience that, like the microwave hallway of Metal Gear Solid 4, worked best because I was playing it.

Then... well, then it turns out Huey—the only person who dared call out Snake for killing his own soldiers—actually caused the epidemic in the first place, which throws off his whole moral high ground thing. Snake does all the right things: He turns the dead troops’ ashes into diamonds, exiles Huey, and finds out that oh yeah, he’s not actually Big Boss. And then the game ends.

Turns out that while we thought we were experiencing Big Boss’s revenge-driven evolution from noble soldier to misguided villain, we were actually watching someone else entirely, which seriously cheapens the emotional effects of Mission 43 and just about everything else you do in The Phantom Pain. All those uncomfortable torture scenes and terrible decisions, like building a big, loyalty-free army and bringing a Metal Gear back to Mother Base? They had nothing to do with Big Boss.

And besides, the more you think about it, the more you realize that Ocelot and Miller were the real dicks in The Phantom Pain, torturing everyone and trying to convince Snake to murder the likes of Quiet and Huey. Venom Snake was actually... kind of a nice guy. We see him get angry and break a mirror after his whole identity crisis deal, but we never see the effects of that revelation, and we never really see him turn all that evil.

So. When the game ends, we’re greeted with a big timeline explaining that in the first Metal Gear, the villain was actually Venom, aka Phantom Big Boss. But it’s never made clear just how or why he became that villain, building weapons of mass destruction in hopes of dominating the world. (Big Boss in the first Metal Gear, you may remember, was pretty damn evil.)

In the second Metal Gear, the bad guy was Real Big Boss. Also evil. And because we know nothing about where he went or what he did while Venom was building Mother Base, his motivations also remain unclear. In cassette tapes, both Big Boss and Zero talk about realizing The Boss’s vision of a nation of soldiers without borders, but it remains ambiguous how that vision translated to “let’s build nukes and murder people and maybe take over the world!”



It’s all very messy and muddled, even by Metal Gear Solid standards, and it’s cheapened by a twist that seems to exist only to shock people. Not that it did a very good job there—The Phantom Pain’s trailers have been full of spoilers; the prologue signals pretty heavily that Ishmael is the real Big Boss; and fans had predicted Venom’s true identity since they discovered that Kiefer Sutherland voiced the medic in Ground Zeroes. Hell, the reveal trailer for Metal Gear Solid V opened with Kaz in the hospital asking, “What about him?”

Even if Chapter 2 of The Phantom Pain didn’t feel so incomplete, and even if it didn’t seem like we were missing half the story here, the Phantom Big Boss twist would still cheapen everything we did in the game. Which is too bad, because the gameplay is so excellent that I’d thoroughly recommend Metal Gear Solid V to just about anyone. And I was really looking forward to seeing how Big Boss became Big Boss. Instead, much like Kojima’s relationship with Konami, it seems like Metal Gear Solid will end on a sour note.

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What I don't get is why they didn't play that over the credits or something. They didn't even need to make a new cutscene or extend the finale to include it, so there's really no reason to cut it at all.

People like to say that it's because of Kojima's $80 million budget, but MGS4 was $60 million and a PS3 exclusive. If Konami was pissed because of the budget, Kojima would have been fired years ago.

It could've been that it just got too much for Konami to deal with. And they also want to get out of console gaming, which is probably much less profitable than mobile.

Also, I've seen it brought up a lot recently that nobody ever explained why he was fired. The most desperate are considering it a part of the ruse-cruise in conjunction with the Black Hound ARG.

I just sent him this tweet but I doubt he'll answer. https://twitter.com/firstofmyname/status/642066078907125760

I'd like to know just as much as anyone else.

Also, what's Black Hound?

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What I don't get is why they didn't play that over the credits or something. They didn't even need to make a new cutscene or extend the finale to include it, so there's really no reason to cut it at all.

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Context? It seems like Ahab is talking to Ishmael. They may have thought it was too jarring, considering the two never speak again after Cyprus.

Also, what's Black Hound?

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I'm going to make it my personal headcanon that Venom Snake's and Big Boss' dickery in the first two games was to prepare Solid Snake for all the hardships he'd have to endure when fighting the Patriots. There's absolutely no implication that any of that is true, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than them just suddenly deciding to threaten the world with nuclear armageddon for no evident reason after being relatively good people in The Phantom Pain.

do you believe it?

(also spoiler the image pls)

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I'm going to make it my personal headcanon that Venom Snake's and Big Boss' dickery in the first two games was to prepare Solid Snake for all the hardships he'd have to endure when fighting the Patriots. There's absolutely no implication that any of that is true, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than them just suddenly deciding to threaten the world with nuclear armageddon for no evident reason after being relatively good people in The Phantom Pain.

That's a lot less contrived than my head canon.

do you believe it?

(also spoiler the image pls)

I think it looks more like Silent Hills marketing, but that wouldn't explain the Morse-code and Snake. We'll find out tomorrow night, I guess.

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I'm going to make it my personal headcanon that Venom Snake's and Big Boss' dickery in the first two games was to prepare Solid Snake for all the hardships he'd have to endure when fighting the Patriots. There's absolutely no implication that any of that is true, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than them just suddenly deciding to threaten the world with nuclear armageddon for no evident reason after being relatively good people in The Phantom Pain.

That's a lot less contrived than my head canon.

Care to share?

do you believe it?

(also spoiler the image pls)

I think it looks more like Silent Hills marketing, but that wouldn't explain the Morse-code and Snake. We'll find out tomorrow night, I guess.

Well my weekend could potentially get real interesting


real fast

i did think it was weird for kojima to end the game like that. seemed so... out of place

what gets me is the game file sizes. Why would the PS4 version be more than the PC?

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what gets me is the game file sizes. Why would the PS4 version be more than the PC?

PS4 has a disc-based option, which would make it harder for the people who still have struggling internet connections to download extremely large patches. Disc Locked Content is better in that regard than a separate multi-gigabyte update.

Care to share?

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After the "Shining Lights, Even in Death" mission (where he kills his own men) his shrapnel becomes fully erect(? dunno if I would use that here). It's meant to signify that he's fully descended into hell, becoming a "demon". He still has his honour and dignity (as shown with how he handles the funeral/Huey storyline) but he's a lot more strict -- angry.

But then Ahab learns the truth about his identity, and goes insane. The shrapnel lodged in his skull falls out (which is why he doesn't have it in MG1). Wanting revenge on Ishmael, and realising that he's literally the best soldier on the planet, he begins to plan for world domination via his military stronghold Outer Heaven.

Ishmael learns of his descension and begins prepping his best man, Gray Fox, to infiltrate. He figures that Ahab is crazy and can no longer fulfill the Big Boss role he had him play for so many years. He no longer embodies that ideal. He needs to be stopped.

Gray Fox comes across Ahab, who obviously bears a striking resemblance to Big Boss, and in the confusion, gets himself captured.

Solid Snake kills Big Boss, an obviously evil

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Ishmael needs to be evil. Ahab was shown to want to be able to use child soldiers, but only stopped himself after Kaz pestered him not to.

in MG2, there are child soldiers, indicating that without Miller's guidance, Big Boss utilised every soldier he had.

The pat on the back Ahab gives Eli ("Welcome to Outer Heaven") was a really powerful moment, but I don't think

I stopped writing both of these about halfway because they don't work. I'm a little incoherent but I didn't want to waste the work, and you may be interested in reading it.

I don't really have a head canon, I just have ideas in my head that I woulda rather seen.

what gets me is the game file sizes. Why would the PS4 version be more than the PC?

PS4 has a disc-based option, which would make it harder for the people who still have struggling internet connections to download extremely large patches. Disc Locked Content is better in that regard than a separate multi-gigabyte update.

Yes.

Are you convinced or nah? Am I the only one?

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is that for me?

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is that for me?

It is if you want it, I'm just doing art because I can

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in MG2, there are child soldiers, indicating that without Miller's guidance, Big Boss utilised every soldier he had.

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I thought of that after "Blood Runs Deep" as well. Ahab only stayed on the straight-and narrow for so long because of Miller and Ocelot's counsel. Ishmael didn't have any of that, so it's obvious that Zanzibar Land is the result of an unguided Big Boss. Would have been really cool to see that kind of contrast in the game between them.

what gets me is the game file sizes. Why would the PS4 version be more than the PC?

PS4 has a disc-based option, which would make it harder for the people who still have struggling internet connections to download extremely large patches. Disc Locked Content is better in that regard than a separate multi-gigabyte update.

Yes.

Are you convinced or nah? Am I the only one?

I'm reserving my expectations.

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in MG2, there are child soldiers, indicating that without Miller's guidance, Big Boss utilised every soldier he had.

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I thought of that after "Blood Runs Deep" as well. Ahab only stayed on the straight-and narrow for so long because of Miller and Ocelot's counsel. Ishmael didn't have any of that, so it's obvious that Zanzibar Land is the result of an unguided Big Boss. Would have been really cool to see that kind of contrast in the game between them.

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Right? Missed opportunity, IMO.

Does anyone else find Kiefer Sutherland to be really charismatic?

Like, I'm instantly drawn to him as a person. I dunno.

Sutherland is a better actor than Hayter, but I'd still have preferred Hayter for nostalgia reasons.

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Sutherland is a better actor than Hayter, but I'd still have preferred Hayter for nostalgia reasons.

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Woulda been perfect if Ishmael was played by him

Sutherland is a better actor than Hayter, but I'd still have preferred Hayter for nostalgia reasons.

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Woulda been perfect if Ishmael was played by him

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I wanted him to take off his bandages to reveal that he is David Hayter. Not Big Boss, David Hayter.