Super Smash Brothers

Elai · December 27, 2015, 03:56:45 AM

Right, the final tier list won't be released until Bayonetta.

That's dumb. They should have an official WIP or something. Is Falco still 'up there', at least?

R o c k e t · December 27, 2015, 04:03:20 AM

Quote from: Falco on December 27, 2015, 03:56:45 AM

Right, the final tier list won't be released until Bayonetta.

That's dumb. They should have an official WIP or something. Is Falco still 'up there', at least?

Smashboards has official bracket results for characters used.

Fox was #7

Falco was......uh.......#33

That's just smashboards using results of characters used in brackets. So it's not really a tier list, and I don't know if Smash 4 has any good ones out yet. So Falco isn't used very much in tournaments, doesn't mean he isn't good.

edit: forgot the link derp http://smashboards.com/rankings/smash-for-wii-u.8/league/teams

Elai · December 27, 2015, 04:09:33 AM

But isn't that how the official tier lists go? They calculate speed, strength, stamina, etc. and factor in the amount of usage the character receives in tournaments, and go from there.

I mean, at the end of the day, I'm going to use him because he's my favourite character and he's still good in the right hands^TM but it's just saddening to see how far he's fallen.

On the plus side, I only see myself competing in Sep7agon tournaments so I'm not too worried about it.

sulphy · December 27, 2015, 08:07:02 AM

Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 25, 2015, 08:25:10 PM

Quote from: Jolly Rocket on December 25, 2015, 08:20:53 PM
Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 25, 2015, 08:14:11 PM
Quote from: Jolly Rocket on December 25, 2015, 08:07:18 PM
Quote from: Assassin 11D7 on December 25, 2015, 07:58:46 PM
>thisfuckingbutthurt
LOL
Yes calling you bad if you button mash means we are mad. Because we are emotionally tied to how somebody plays smash bros.
How do you get emotionally tied to a game consisting of smashing colorful buttons? Is this preschool?
Then you understand how stupid calling us mad was then. Good.
>He gets this overprotective about a kid's game on an inferior platform

I mean dang, I thought weebs and bronies were the bottom of the barrel, but this is getting pretty fucking sad.

not that i actually care for smashfags but stop trying to act like some cool guy you fucking nerd
remember that SICK anti brony roleplay forum you made where you had like ''martial law'' and all this gay shit
cause i do you fucking homo

sulphy · December 27, 2015, 08:13:13 AM

no offense assassin but i literally cannot picture you in my head NOT being overweight
i mean jesus christ

CK97 · December 27, 2015, 11:29:54 AM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on December 27, 2015, 02:17:59 AM

Quote from: CK97 on December 27, 2015, 12:35:18 AM
Speaking of Falco

Can he just get his Brawl lasers back pls

What was the difference?

That they didn't have a limit on firing distance?

They auto-canceled and they fired really fast when used in the air, I mained him in Brawl.

Verbatim · December 27, 2015, 11:32:51 AM

Quote from: sulphy on December 27, 2015, 08:13:13 AM

no offense assassin but i literally cannot picture you in my head NOT being overweight
i mean jesus christ

LOOOOOOOOOOOL

CK97 · December 27, 2015, 11:33:36 AM

Quote from: Falco on December 27, 2015, 03:56:45 AM

Is Falco still 'up there', at least?

I think he's like top 25, which isn't bad, it's like dead middle tier.

Quote from: Falco on December 27, 2015, 03:24:38 AM

So is Fox still top-tier in Sm4sh or nah?

He's definitely top 10, but not top 5.

R o c k e t · December 27, 2015, 12:04:43 PM

Quote from: CK97 on December 27, 2015, 11:33:36 AM

Quote from: Falco on December 27, 2015, 03:56:45 AM
Is Falco still 'up there', at least?
I think he's like top 25, which isn't bad, it's like dead middle tier.

Quote from: Falco on December 27, 2015, 03:24:38 AM
So is Fox still top-tier in Sm4sh or nah?
He's definitely top 10, but not top 5.

Yeah I just used Zero's list for reference. Can you link any tier lists you find dependable and accurate?

R o c k e t · December 27, 2015, 12:11:17 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 27, 2015, 11:32:51 AM

Quote from: sulphy on December 27, 2015, 08:13:13 AM

no offense assassin but i literally cannot picture you in my head NOT being overweight
i mean jesus christ
LOOOOOOOOOOOL

The internet never forgets

Elai · December 27, 2015, 01:24:39 PM

Quote from: sulphy on December 27, 2015, 08:13:13 AM

no offense assassin but i literally cannot picture you in my head NOT being overweight
i mean jesus christ

Holy. Crap.

Dead.

Better luck next time, Assassin.

Elai · December 27, 2015, 01:28:49 PM

Quote from: CK97 on December 27, 2015, 11:33:36 AM

What makes Fox better than Falco this time around?

I know they were pretty much interchangable in previous titles.

Verbatim · December 27, 2015, 01:37:23 PM

Quote from: Falco on December 27, 2015, 01:28:49 PM

Quote from: CK97 on December 27, 2015, 11:33:36 AM
What makes Fox better than Falco this time around?

I know they were pretty much interchangable in previous titles.

as with all smash titles, speed is pretty much going to be the main factor that separates the high tiers from the low tiers

unlike in melee, falco is slow as hell, and struggles with combo-oriented characters

fox's blaster is p. broken, because it forces your opponent to jump, or perform some risky maneuver to dodge the lasers, which is the perfect setup for fox's amazing aerials

falco's blaster is okay, i guess, but the amount of recovery frames it has makes it easy to intercept
and unlike in melee, his aerials are all laggy and stupid (i miss you, dair)

falco's moves also have NO range, which is awful--at least fox has the speed to make up for it

CK97 · December 27, 2015, 01:38:38 PM

Quote from: Rocketman287 on December 27, 2015, 12:04:43 PM

Quote from: CK97 on December 27, 2015, 11:33:36 AM
Quote from: Falco on December 27, 2015, 03:56:45 AM
Is Falco still 'up there', at least?
I think he's like top 25, which isn't bad, it's like dead middle tier.

Quote from: Falco on December 27, 2015, 03:24:38 AM
So is Fox still top-tier in Sm4sh or nah?
He's definitely top 10, but not top 5.

Yeah I just used Zero's list for reference. Can you link any tier lists you find dependable and accurate?

There aren't any to be honest. Even then, the top 10 characters are pretty much set in stone at this point. A tier list hasn't been created simply because the game is still fairly new and has received balance patches.

Quote from: Falco on December 27, 2015, 01:28:49 PM

Quote from: CK97 on December 27, 2015, 11:33:36 AM

What makes Fox better than Falco this time around?

I know they were pretty much interchangable in previous titles.

Faster (which also means better neutral game), better frame data, and kill confirms. Both have good combos, but I think Fox's are overall better.

Elai · December 27, 2015, 01:40:01 PM

Dang, that's a shame.

I assume they made all these changes to differentiate Fox from Falco? They were pretty much the same character before.

Verbatim · December 27, 2015, 01:43:57 PM

Brawl took a few measures to differentiate all the clone characters, yeah.

Smash 4 went a bit further... yet introduced two more clones, and brought one back. <_<
I'll never understand that.

CK97 · December 27, 2015, 01:44:47 PM

Possibly, yeah, although I thought they were quite different in Brawl already.

Verbatim · December 27, 2015, 01:46:11 PM

Don't ever bother with Brawl, though. Disgustingly bad game, competitively speaking.

Elai · December 27, 2015, 01:56:59 PM

All of my friends say that Brawl is their favourite, lol.

Personally I've had the most fun in Melee so far but maybe that's just me.

Verbatim · December 27, 2015, 01:59:25 PM

Yugh. I can't even play Brawl casually anymore. Too gross.

When do you think you'll be ready to play us in Smash 4, though?

Elai · December 27, 2015, 02:03:07 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on December 27, 2015, 01:59:25 PM

Yugh. I can't even play Brawl casually anymore. Too gross.

I haven't played Brawl in a long time, so there's no telling how I'll feel once I play it sometime this week. I'm sure I'll let you guys know.

Quote

When do you think you'll be ready to play us in Smash 4, though?

Hard to say. In terms of skill level, I'll admit: I'm not great ATM. For reference, I was playing Melee with TBlocks last week, and I put up a decent fight against him (I believe we tied 1-1 against each other), but he admitted that Melee wasn't his strong suit and that he was far better at SSB4. Do with that what you will.

But I've been pretty much playing non-stop the last couple of days trying to "up" my game, and I'm a fast learner. I'd like to participate in any Smash tournies we have from now on, even if I don't really compete on your guy's level.

Elai · December 27, 2015, 02:03:56 PM

That's why I'm asking for all the tips I can get. I want to expedite the process as much as possible.

R o c k e t · December 27, 2015, 03:03:26 PM

Quote from: Falco on December 27, 2015, 02:03:56 PM

That's why I'm asking for all the tips I can get. I want to expedite the process as much as possible.

Definitley learn to read your opponents. Like suppose you do a throw at a damage percent to where they'll be airborne l9ng enough to double jump. More than likely they'll do a double jump forward, so jump right after you finish your throw to set an attack up.

Also learn your character's strengths and what your personal strengths are.

Short hopping and doing moves that are quicker than others or don't have as much landing lag just might save you.

Don't spam smash attacks, and don't hide behind your shield too long. But don't be afraid to use your shield.

Elai · December 27, 2015, 03:17:56 PM

Thanks Rocket. I'm going to try that right now.

I feel like Smash is all about timing. And learning that timing comes with a lot of practice.

TB · December 27, 2015, 03:51:31 PM

It is a lot about timing. For example the other day my brother and I were playing SSB4 and he kept on winning even though I felt the matches were about even in terms of momentum and damage output.
I finally figured it out in our last game that I wasn't sidestepping at all and it was seriously hindering my ability to dodge his attacks and set up my own.
Being able to leave someone vulnerable and exploiting it is very much what sidestepping is for.
Smash really does take a lot of small adjustments during the match to do well though. It's crazy how one small thing like under-using one of your attacks or grabbing too much will affect your overall game.

And yes, Melee isn't really my bag. lol

Elai · December 27, 2015, 04:10:26 PM

I'm guessing side-stepping is when you roll forward or backwards after using the shield, right?

TB · December 27, 2015, 04:13:47 PM

Quote from: Falco on December 27, 2015, 04:10:26 PM

I'm guessing side-stepping is when you roll forward or backwards after using the shield, right?

No that's rolling.
Sidestepping is when you hit the stick down when using your shield.

Elai · December 27, 2015, 04:19:30 PM

...you can do that?

TB · December 27, 2015, 04:20:02 PM

Sir I believe I just changed your world again.
Have fun with your newfound power.

Verbatim · December 27, 2015, 04:28:38 PM

Side-stepping (also called spot-dodging) is a very useful tool indeed. If you can read someone grab, you side-step on reaction for a free punish. Also works well against particularly laggy moves, like Bowser's F-smash, if you can time it carefully. It's rather punishable itself, though, like an air dodge--so be careful.

Remember that you can air dodge multiple times in Smash 4, unlike Melee.

Also, learn how to perfect shield. A perfect shield (or power shield) is when you press shield just within a few frames of being hit by an attack. It makes a distinct clashing noise. Perfect shields are nice, because they have less recovery frames, allowing you to counter-attack faster (effectively making it a parry), and it also doesn't drain any of your shield to use it.

There's also teching. When in hitstun, you can hit either R or L just a few frames before landing to tech, allowing you to quickly rise up and "break your fall" (which is what the offical term is), instead of landing on your face or back. You can tech in place, or you can tech roll by hitting left or right as you tech.

Try to be unpredictable with that, and sometimes choose not to tech at all.