How do you guys feel about voiced vs. silent protagonists?

Scarecrow · October 02, 2016, 04:34:11 PM

I've heard the argument that having a silent or mostly silent protagonist allows the player the project themselves onto whoever they're playing as, but frankly, that just seems kind of lazy to me. I'd prefer that the player-character was written in a way that fits with how the gameplay makes us feel about him. For example, Kratos in God of War is a pretty angry guy, which fits with the very violent gameplay. The connection between player and protagonist is a lot stronger when the characters voices what the game makes us feel; we identify with them because we want to not because we have to. What's your perspective on this, though?

Pippen · October 02, 2016, 04:37:32 PM

Tbh silent characters that players can project themselves on only are good with good characters to go with them.

I do like the ability to project onto a character though, but only when they are literally complete blank slates you create yourself on. Not ones like Master Chief.

big dog · October 02, 2016, 04:37:56 PM

Depends on the game.

DAS B00T x2 · October 02, 2016, 04:38:35 PM

I can't say I have a preference. I'd rather the supporting cast be the really fleshed out and animated ones anyway.

Scarecrow · October 02, 2016, 05:03:06 PM

Quote from: Pippen on October 02, 2016, 04:37:32 PM

Tbh silent characters that players can project themselves on only are good with good characters to go with them.

I do like the ability to project onto a character though, but only when they are literally complete blank slates you create yourself on. Not ones like Master Chief.

Yeah, honestly, Master Chief is a good example of how not to approach characterizing the player-character. They tried to have the best of both worlds by having him mostly silent but not completely silent, but they ended up with none of either world. He's boring, and you can't really picture yourself as him, because each remark he makes with his gravelly voice pulls you out of that fantasy.

Winy · October 02, 2016, 05:43:00 PM

I honestly prefer to have a character that's written with some depth, but I can imagine many circumstances where that isn't necessary, and a silent, self-insert protagonist is fine. If the game is heavy on storytelling, then I'd like for the main character to be as well, because I can't imagine it being easy to create a game world where everyone besides you is interacting with the story and voicing themselves. But in some goofy, non-serious game like Mario, or Sonic? You don't need to give them some extravagant, complex character, they're just an avatar to have fun as.

Scarecrow · October 02, 2016, 06:06:27 PM

A lot of what I've been hearing is that it depends on the game, and I think that's a fair point.
I think that the relationship between games and narrative is similar to the relationship between songs and their lyrics. The actual game itself can't tell a story or convey a message, but it can elicit emotions that are contextualized and expanded upon by the story, just like music creates a feeling that is given a more specific meaning by the lyrics.
Not all songs need to have lyrics, though, and not all games need much in the way of detailed characters and storytelling. A game that exist purely for the feeling it gives you (even if that feeling is no more complex than catharsis and fun) is valid on its own.
All the same, a game that has a lot to say shouldn't just say it with the story, but reinforce it with gameplay. The Raven wouldn't be any better if it would be put to the tune of Seven Nation Army, so why would Uncharted's decent story be improved by its own (frankly, quite boring) gameplay?

Spartan · October 02, 2016, 07:15:36 PM

I'm mixed, Doomguy works really well for it since you're always in his perspective, but in say Destiny, I'm bothered by it

Luciana · October 02, 2016, 07:35:44 PM

I'm a little sick of the silent protag thing. I think it's incredibly lazy almost every time to say "this is you". Unless you can create them from 100% scratch and then do to them your own kinda RP aspects, it's bad. So people like Gordon Freeman and Master Chef? No.

Verbatim · October 02, 2016, 07:43:59 PM

I dunno, it's kind of lazy I guess, but I'd rather have a protagonist who doesn't say anything than run the risk of having him say the stupidest shit ever. There's nothing worse than being forced to play as a guy you hate, because he annoys you.

They say there's a reason they never give Link anything to say...

YouTube

Big Boss · October 02, 2016, 07:46:32 PM

Depends if it's voice or text. I wouldn't complain if Link spoke in Zelda because there's no voice acting anyway.

Turkey · October 02, 2016, 08:05:57 PM

A game doesn't have to be character-driven to have a solid story or narrative. Personally I prefer silent (or mostly blank slate) protagonists unless a game is designed to be heavily focused around that character's personality. I really enjoy Legend of Zelda even though Link is a non-character, and I really don't enjoy Deus Ex because Adam Jenson is an obnoxious dumbass. An example where I do appreciate a voiced protagonist is Bioshock Infinity; normally when a game attempts to keep a secret until the end, the player picks up on it well before the character does, and that inhibits immersion. In Bioshock, the confusion and lack of knowledge of Booker's past makes sense in the narrative.

clum clum · October 02, 2016, 08:20:33 PM

It depends. For games like Fallout 4, I think a voiced protag was an awful idea.

Loverboy · October 02, 2016, 08:49:13 PM

Silent protagonists are cool but saying they help immerse someone is stupid.

Pippen · October 02, 2016, 09:08:03 PM

Quote from: Loverboy on October 02, 2016, 08:49:13 PM

Silent protagonists are cool but saying they help immerse someone is stupid.

They do. And it isn't stupid

Luciana · October 02, 2016, 09:13:44 PM

Quote from: Big Boss on October 02, 2016, 07:46:32 PM

Depends if it's voice or text. I wouldn't complain if Link spoke in Zelda because there's no voice acting anyway.

Well there is, just not any dialogue.

Scarecrow · October 02, 2016, 09:55:53 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 02, 2016, 07:43:59 PM

I dunno, it's kind of lazy I guess, but I'd rather have a protagonist who doesn't say anything than run the risk of having him say the stupidest shit ever. There's nothing worse than being forced to play as a guy you hate, because he annoys you.

They say there's a reason they never give Link anything to say...

YouTube

Yeah, I guess that no dialogue is better than awful dialogue, but that still seems kind of lazy. It's like drawing stick figures because you don't think you're a good artist.

Zonda · October 02, 2016, 10:11:37 PM

I'm as fine with Link as I am with Snake tbh

Doctor Doom · October 02, 2016, 11:18:22 PM

Quote from: Spartan on October 02, 2016, 07:15:36 PM

I'm mixed, Doomguy works really well for it since you're always in his perspective, but in say Destiny, I'm bothered by it

Was just about to mention Doomguy. The original Doom games definitely intend for the player to imagine they are fighting demons and zombies and whatnot, but in Doom '16 he has little quirks that piece together into a personality of his own that you can find amusement in. You can pretend he's you, but if that's not your cup of tea, he's still a fun character to watch.

Jono · October 02, 2016, 11:25:26 PM

Depends on the game, and I'm glad Bethesda realized that having a voice protag was a bad idea. I can't roleplay as a old black guy that goes around beating people up with a cane because my character is always going to sound the same and do the same things as everyone else who plays the game.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · October 02, 2016, 11:42:59 PM

I have no preference, save that previously silent protagonists shouldn't speak in subsequent appearances. My one exception is Issac Clarke, who got 10x better after he started getting lines.

Too bad there will never be a Dead Space 3.

Verbatim · October 02, 2016, 11:45:24 PM

Quote from: Prime the Stampede on October 02, 2016, 11:42:59 PM

I have no preference, save that previously silent protagonists shouldn't speak in subsequent appearances. My one exception is Issac Clarke, who got 10x better after he started getting lines.

Too bad there will never be a Dead Space 3.

jak & daxter, yo

even if he took a level in edge as well

🍁 Aria 🔮 · October 03, 2016, 12:22:36 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 02, 2016, 11:45:24 PM

Quote from: Prime the Stampede on October 02, 2016, 11:42:59 PM
I have no preference, save that previously silent protagonists shouldn't speak in subsequent appearances. My one exception is Issac Clarke, who got 10x better after he started getting lines.

Too bad there will never be a Dead Space 3.
jak & daxter, yo

even if he took a level in edge as well

Completely slipped my mind, it's been too long since I played it.

Korra · October 03, 2016, 12:23:21 AM

Quote from: Scarecrow on October 02, 2016, 05:03:06 PM

Quote from: Pippen on October 02, 2016, 04:37:32 PM
Tbh silent characters that players can project themselves on only are good with good characters to go with them.

I do like the ability to project onto a character though, but only when they are literally complete blank slates you create yourself on. Not ones like Master Chief.
Yeah, honestly, Master Chief is a good example of how not to approach characterizing the player-character. They tried to have the best of both worlds by having him mostly silent but not completely silent, but they ended up with none of either world. He's boring, and you can't really picture yourself as him, because each remark he makes with his gravelly voice pulls you out of that fantasy.

Well that's an error on Bungie's part. But the Master Chief is supposed to be like this, its part of his character. Man of little words like the Man with No Name.

Elai · October 03, 2016, 09:33:04 AM

Cool concept but I've never been more immersed by a silent protagonist. Like in Jak and Daxter, I never felt like Jak -- I just felt like I was controlling a mute who kicks ass.

Pippen · October 03, 2016, 12:34:30 PM

Quote from: Scarecrow on October 02, 2016, 05:03:06 PM

Quote from: Pippen on October 02, 2016, 04:37:32 PM
Tbh silent characters that players can project themselves on only are good with good characters to go with them.

I do like the ability to project onto a character though, but only when they are literally complete blank slates you create yourself on. Not ones like Master Chief.
Yeah, honestly, Master Chief is a good example of how not to approach characterizing the player-character. They tried to have the best of both worlds by having him mostly silent but not completely silent, but they ended up with none of either world. He's boring, and you can't really picture yourself as him, because each remark he makes with his gravelly voice pulls you out of that fantasy.

I'd refute by saying that giving them a voice is fine, but it has to be pretty basic. More like SPARTAN-B312/Noble Six where their voices are barely heard and barely recognizable. However the gravelly voice of Chief is not the right way to do it.

October 03, 2016, 03:45:24 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on October 02, 2016, 07:43:59 PM

I dunno, it's kind of lazy I guess, but I'd rather have a protagonist who doesn't say anything than run the risk of having him say the stupidest shit ever. There's nothing worse than being forced to play as a guy you hate, because he annoys you.

They say there's a reason they never give Link anything to say...

YouTube

Link in Wind Waker had some personality.

Luciana · October 03, 2016, 05:02:01 PM

Quote from: Vien on October 03, 2016, 03:45:24 PM

Link in Wind Waker had some personality.

This is true. The renditions of Cartoon Link generally do.

October 03, 2016, 05:21:47 PM

Quote from: Luciana on October 03, 2016, 05:02:01 PM

Quote from: Vien on October 03, 2016, 03:45:24 PM
Link in Wind Waker had some personality.
This is true. The renditions of Cartoon Link generally do.

He was one of the most adorable Nintendo characters ever created.

Sαndtrap · October 03, 2016, 06:33:47 PM

Honestly, I'd prefer a silent protagonist over one with bad voice acting and shit dialogue.