Quote from: Bacon on November 30, 2015, 12:35:39 PM

Quote from: Luciana on November 30, 2015, 12:33:47 PM

Quote from: Bacon on November 30, 2015, 12:29:37 PM

Quote from: Luciana on November 30, 2015, 12:26:30 PM

Quote from: Bacon on November 30, 2015, 12:25:54 PM

Quote from: Fruitcake on November 30, 2015, 12:24:43 PM

Also... Isn't Halo 5 only 60 fps in a small bubble around you?

Yeah

Enemy animations at distance are 30

Sounds like Dark Souls 2.

It's kinda pathetic that the XB1's first 'proper' exclusive can barely maintain 60fps. The resolution alters when things get hectic to keep a consistent frame rate.

It's not pathetic at all when you realize the hardware was out of date since before it even came out. On both platforms.

The 360 and PS3's potential was far more powerful and greater, and actually ahead on the market (even with PC's) in many cases. Not the fact with Xbone and PS4. I assume due to how much it costs building it, inflation, etc.

Last gen didn't hit its limit until around a decade later. Current gen hit it before it even hit the markets.

That's what I meant. Eight-gen concoles are hilariously underpowered.

Ehhhh

It's still early in the console's life span. This used to be considered good graphics. If you took Halo 4 into a time machine, and showed it to people in 2005, no one would have believed that it would be an Xbox 360 game.

You're both talking out of your asses.

This gen isn't anything like last gen.
This gen uses off the shelf hardware and uses the same architecture that PCs have been using for a long time. Developers already knew how to utilise the hardware to its max (or extremely close to it) since day 1.

Last gen used non-standard hardware and non-standard architectures. Developers had to learn how to utilise the hardware for each console because they were also drastically different from each other instead of just PCs.
They were still figuring things out long into the 7th gen's lifespan.

And Halo 4 looks as good as it does because other things were sacrificed, like AI and level sizes.

Developers already knew how to utilise the hardware to its max (or extremely close to it) since day 1.

Erm, nope. That has no basis reality.

And Halo 4 looks as good as it does because other things were sacrificed, like AI and level sizes.

Not necessarily, you don't know that. 343i isn't necessarily going to make a game exactly like Bungie would, because they're not Bungie, and they had to do a lot from scratch, even though they were used the Reach engine on steroids.

It still doesn't explain the vast majority of other late-gen 360 games.

It's not going to look any better for PS4/Xbone games. He does know that because there is such a thing as looking at the hardware in a console.

That logic has never held true for any hardware, ever.

I love how it's inconcievable that people would prefer a feature they don't use get removed for something they will use.

>implying

I love how it's inconcievable that people would prefer a feature they don't use get removed for something they will use.

You don't "use" 60fps. It's something that's just there, passively, and not many people can tell the difference.

Or they just don't care. Because no one should care.

I can easily tell the difference without needing a side by side comparison

It's just not having 60 fps isn't the end of the world like some people claim it is

As long as the framerate's stable that's all that should really matter

I think it is

who plays split screen in 2015?

Siblings, friends, you know, the norm.

Mainly people under the age of 18, still going to school and nothing really else to do in their spare time I assume.

Quote from: challengerX on November 30, 2015, 03:09:59 PM

343 is trash and so is Lemon

Quote from: Mordo on November 30, 2015, 03:14:16 PM

How does 343's cock taste Lemon?

I'm not even defending 343 here

I'm having a debate with Kupo over how pathetically weak 8th gen consoles are

Morons

Its actually disgusting, and for the next few year PC gaming will suffer because of it

Quote from: Cup-O on November 30, 2015, 03:50:32 PM

>ignoring the perfectly valid argument that 360 graphics have objectively improved over the console's lifespan

Yes. The graphics of games on the 360 did drastically improve over its lifespan. I never once denied that.
However, using it at all when discussing the 8th gen consoles, isn't valid. At all.

How many times will it take for it to get through to you? 7th gen is nothing like 8th gen.
Developers didn't know how to fully and effectively take advantage of the 360 and PS3. It took them years to figure things out.
That's why games like TLoU came at the end of their lifespan. They were able to utilise the hardware and software super effectively and efficiently.

Quote

The Nvidia 8800/9800 GT released in 2006/2008. Recommended specs for this. Also the recommended specs for this. Meets the minimum requirements for games as recent as this and this.

This doesn't prove anything.
The recommended specs to effectively run those two games meet the minimum specs to barely run two newer games.

Do you know what minimum means? Have you ever seen GTAV running at the very minimum? It looks fucking awful.

Quote

I think the reason you have to cherrypick apart my own argument, instead of actually producing your own evidence, is that you have none. There is zero precedence for any of the bullshit you're spewing about hardware limitations.

I haven't cherrypicked anything. I broke up your posts to directly address each point. Just like I'm doing now.

I don't need to provide evidence regarding obvious and widely known facts. The PS4 and Xbone were outdated and underpowered before they were even released in comparison to the current hardware in 2013. There's no changing this fact whether you like it or not. No amount of driver optimizations will ever change this. Software can't compensate for hardware.

Shall I make a list of games that struggle to run on the 8th gen consoles, or had to cut back on things so they can run? Because it'll be a long list.

None of what I'm saying is bullshit. If you actually knew anything about hardware, you'd know that the next few years are going to be tough on the 8th gen.
That, and hardware improving faster than ever, they've become outdated significantly faster than 7th gen.

And before I finish here, I'll repeat it one last time, for good measure.
The PS4 and Xbone use off the shelf hardware. They use the exact same architecture as PCs use.
There is near nothing that they need to relearn, because they already know how to develop for what the PS4 and Xbone are running on.
7th gen used different hardware and architectures that were very foreign to developers. They had to learn a lot. It took them near enough the entire 7th gen lifespan to properly understand and to effectively and efficiently utilise what the 360 and PS3 were using. 8th gen is NOYHING like that.


But whatever. Stay ignorant and keep buying into MS' and Sony's PR.

>zero evidence

As I've already proven, optimizations can go a long way. The limitations you're claiming is completely unfounded, without any basis in computer science or historical and technological precedence.

Give me evidence, or stop being such a little bitch.

Keep in mind that the PS3's graphics card is a generation older than the 8800/9800 GT, and yet GTA V looks great for that system.

man this thread got graphic

This thread is cancer.

8th gen is weak as fuck because gamers are cheap and refuse to pay more for consoles or games.

Quote from: Cup-O on November 30, 2015, 05:32:23 PM

>zero evidence

I've provided more than you have, though.

8th gen in general
8th gen hardware
8th gen are gimped PCs
8th gen uses off the shelf hardware and uses the same architecture as PCs use
8th gen is already struggling to run games
The fucking GTX 750Ti (without even being overclocked) w/ i3 processor outdoes the PS4 and Xbone in performance. The 750Ti is a super cheap low end GPU. The PS4 and Xbone are using netbook CPUs ffs. That's how pathetically weak 8th gen consoles are.

You'd need to be an idiot to not understand this.

Off-the-shelf hardware or not, it's irrelevant. This is most devs' first time developing for this generation of hardware. It's a blank slate.

As I've already proven, optimizations can go a long way.

No they don't. Optimizations only go so far, which isn't very far, in terms of graphical improvement.
This is the most idiotic, pseudo-intellectual statement ever posted in the history of this board. I thought nobody could outdo Verbatim shilling for the Virtual Boy.

GTA IV on PC runs like crap. GTA V on PC doesn't.

This flies in the face of your entire argument because GTA V is the graphically superior game in every possible way, and yet it performs better than GTA IV on PC, on the same hardware. The fact is that GTA V was optimized and GTA IV was not.

All you've done is irrelevantly talk about 7th gen, and how the graphics improved over time. Not because of optimizations, but because they were learning new things about the hardware and architecture.

That is how it has happened throughout the history of computer hardware. There is zero basis to believe that will change.

The limitations you're claiming is completely unfounded, without any basis in computer science or historical and technological precedence.

lol okay.

None of what I've said is unfounded. In any way.

You're taking some basic points about current-gen consoles having old hardware and claiming that 1) because it's old, it's reached its limits, and 2) because developers are using off-the-shelf hardware, and because they use OTS hardware all the time, they know the exact limitations of it, because all OTS hardware is exactly the same, and if you can do one you've done all of them. None of that is even remotely true.

Most console developers haven't even developed for off-the-shelf hardware, because they've only developed for non-standard console hardware. They have zero experience with OTS hardware, so they're starting from scratch.

An example of such a company would be 343i.

OTS vs. nonstandard hardware is thus irrelevant at this point. And they're unlikely to hit the ball out of the park, because getting it perfect the first time is difficult.

Even comparing games like Battlefield 3 to BF4, the graphics are improved on both console and PC with the same hardware in mind (for consoles and PC), with the same engine used, with the same staff behind it. Or even just take a look at Naughty Dog's games and how those graphics have improved with each title, too. Both devs are getting more out of the hardware each time, because it's a cumulative process, and triple-A development takes years.

It's a slow, gradual process, which is why two years is hardly enough time to close the book and make assertive statements that we've reached the human and technological limits for what's possible. Most devs are just releasing their first titles on this hardware, with many optimizations that were outdated by the time the product reached the market.

8th gen is weak as fuck. Fact

Old is not the same as useless.

8th gen uses off the shelf hardware. Fact

This is irrelevant.

Developers have been developing games for x86 architecture and off the shelf hardware for a long as time. Fact

See above. New hardware is essentially a blank slate, regardless of architecture.

Optimizations aren't some magical thing that you seem to think they are. Fact

Optimizations have been standard for video game development since kingdom come. It's the most basic requirement to making a game look and run reasonably well on the hardware it's given. You're so hilariously uninformed about the most basic facts about real-time 3D graphics, or computer science in general.

Optimization is the difference between this:

And the sad sack of shit you see on the left:

Software literally CAN NOT compensate for hardware. Fact

But not to the outrageous degree you're claiming.

lol fuck off
Coming from the guy linking to pictures of bullshots.
Again, the point was obvious, and you can't prove it wrong.

You're literally more retarded than Peter Griffin. Nice job not going into detail, either. You have no evidence.

So either wisen up, or shut the fuck up.

LOL

You're just reiterating the same old tired, debunked bullshit over and over again. You have zero evidence to support your laughable beliefs that we've somehow reached the apex of console hardware before most devs have even had a go at it yet. This whiny bullshit happens every generation and is proven wrong every single goddamn time. I dropped CS but I'll be damned if I don't know my shit.