To be fair, every Halo has had some different tweaks to mechanics that have drastically changed the skill gap.  Halo 2 had weird hitboxes, but had a hitscan BR.  Halo 3 had shitty netcode and spread-y BR, but better aim assist/bullet magnetism levels.  Both H2 and H3 were still very competitive because they still had an incredible emphasis on map control, movement/strafing, communication, predictability/even starts, etc... and weren't too bogged down by randomness. 

Reach and 4 became a problem when randomness was kicked into high gear, aim assist was turned back up, movement was awkward, bloom on single-shot precision weapons made fights about risk-vs-reward in terms of controlling rate of fire, equal starts were removed, automatic weapons were buffed to the same level as guns with more complexity, etc...  The vanilla games encouraged abusing randomness and casual mechanics more than it did soft-skills like communication.

Overall, I'd say Halo 5 has done infinitely more good than harm.  It might still have sprint, but I think the very low aim assist, return to equal starts, good base movement speeds + movement acceleration (something that Reach fucked up), etc... make up for something.  At least in Halo 5, I definitely feel an emphasis in teamwork, like old times.

Nonetheless, you'd be out of your mind if you thought any console shooter was more competitive than something like Quake.

>tfw no one realises you were joking

Look at what you fucking unleashed.

Quote from: Mr. Admirals on February 02, 2015, 03:36:09 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on February 02, 2015, 03:10:13 PM

Quote from: ChaosMetalDragon on February 02, 2015, 03:05:28 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on February 02, 2015, 03:03:41 PM

i like halo 1/2/3/odst a lot, but im not gonna pretend like they were perfect. halo 2 was kinda like SSBM in that the glitches with the game artificially increased the skill cap because they were replicable, like wavedashing. a lot of people think that the glitches/bugs made it bad, and im ok with that, but it was also the most competitive fps of the console age so

INB4 Lemon

meh i dont really care about the opinions of people who suck at multiplayer

let him come

You know, after years of personal conflict and deliberation on the matter, I think I've come to the conclusion that the button combos aren't a bad thing. Of course, how they were present in Halo 2 wasn't acceptable. After the Community latched onto them, Bungie should have began to spread the knowledge about them so everyone knew about them and had equal access to them. Additionally, if they were intentionally programmed into the game, they could then have been balanced properly and be more conistsent.

Of course, I've never been able to intetnionally pull one off a button combo so I can't really testify to how consistent they are.

And we're supposed to take you seriously when it come to multiplayer why?

I really don't think my ability to pull of a button combo affects the validity of my opinion. Truth be told, I've never made an actual effort to pull any of them off. The only attempts to do them has been: "Hmm... I feel like attempting a button combo." *try once or twice* "Welp, back to the game".

Keep in mind of course, I've never had anyone teach more, nor have I looked up how to even do them.

And now I strongly suspect you are going to strawman me with an ad hominem argument.

To be fair, every Halo has had some different tweaks to mechanics that have drastically changed the skill gap.  Halo 2 had weird hitboxes, but had a hitscan BR.  Halo 3 had shitty netcode and spread-y BR, but better aim assist/bullet magnetism levels.  Both H2 and H3 were still very competitive because they still had an incredible emphasis on map control, movement/strafing, communication, predictability/even starts, etc... and weren't too bogged down by randomness. 

Reach and 4 became a problem when randomness was kicked into high gear, aim assist was turned back up, movement was awkward, bloom on single-shot precision weapons made fights about risk-vs-reward in terms of controlling rate of fire, equal starts were removed, automatic weapons were buffed to the same level as guns with more complexity, etc...  The vanilla games encouraged abusing randomness and casual mechanics more than it did soft-skills like communication.

Overall, I'd say Halo 5 has done infinitely more good than harm.  It might still have sprint, but I think the very low aim assist, return to equal starts, good base movement speeds + movement acceleration (something that Reach fucked up), etc... make up for something.  At least in Halo 5, I definitely feel an emphasis in teamwork, like old times.

Nonetheless, you'd be out of your mind if you thought any console shooter was more competitive than something like Quake.

Quote from: Snake on February 02, 2015, 03:43:45 PM

>tfw no one realises you were joking

Look at what you fucking unleashed.

Fair enough point.

Where I'm coming from though is that the guns grenades and melee is the most central aspect of the game. If you fuck those up, the rest of the game will suffer consequently.

Quote from: BritishLemön on February 02, 2015, 03:35:58 PM

Quote from: Karjala takaisin on February 02, 2015, 03:29:54 PM

Sprint is what sucks. I don't like sprint. I'd rather have Call of Duty 2 ported for Xbox One than Halo 5.

You think Halo 2 isn't Hand Holding Simulator: 2004, though; but every game after Halo 2 aims for you.
You're really not someone worth listening to.

lol, what? Stop speaking for others and embarrassing yourself in front of everyone you have no idea you're talking about.

You literally denied that Halo 2 didn't have aim assist and bullet magnetism out the arse and claimed that every other game since Halo 2 does.

Don't try to bullshit your way out of this.

I can't tell if challenger is being a ruse master or actually believes this.

Not really, you're just wrong.

Would you care to actually substantiate your argument with evidence? When I have stated you were wrong, I provided rather concrete evidence to support my argument. If you want to have a "Yes! No!" argument, find someone else.

It does, that's why it was so popular.

Except that now you're repeating yourself. Halo 2 was popular even when it was severely broken and unbalanced for close to 6 months. I think that is enough evidence to refute that the competitiveness is what made it popular. Of course, once tournaments began to be held, that attracted more attention. You can really do that with any game though.

Look at Smite, the recently had a HUGE ass tournament that raked in a ton of money and attention for the game and devs, despite the fact it's arguably inferior to LoL. Call of Duty has done this before as well despite the fact it's not even that competitive.

The Rubik's Cube is a ton of fun and challenging/competitive. Just like Halo.

I would argue against how fun a Rubix cube actually is if you don't know how to solve it. As for the challenging aspect, sure but the competitiveness wasn't built into the Rubix cube. It's a construct of its fans and buyers.

The Halo trilogy has the best and most competitive gameplay. End of story m'lord.

Saying something doesn't just make it true. Show me why it's true.

I can't tell if challenger is being a ruse master or actually believes this.

I'm fairly gullible when it comes to this type of thing so I can't provide input. But I give him the benefit of the doubt because I believe everyone is good natured at heart.

I miss the fun stuff when I'm at school huh?

Sprint in Halo 5? Well, I doubt 343 would increase the base player speed to compensate, so I expect them to leave it in. Clambering is cool, but it's weird not jumping as high as I did in Halo CE-2-3.

Do I think it causes issues? Yeah.
Maps are stretched, and people run from battles. Sure the whole "you sprint then your shield won't recharge" idea is great, but people still run from battles all the time.

I'll still play it at launch, I may get bored of it like Halo 4, but it's not my ideal incarnation of Halo. However I don't make the decisions, so what happens happens.

Sprint isn't confirmed to be in. It most likely will be, but not yet.

We don't even know how Halo 5 is being rebalanced yet. Bravo confirmed that Josh Holmes is working on the list of changes they're making based on Beta feedback. It'll be out soon.

As for Sprint, I do agree with part of your assessment. However, 343i has also said that Sprint originally had much harsher penalties before the beta. Hopefully they'll be reinstated. I think that Sprint is good and fun mechanic if it can only be used offensively. If it can be used defensively, It doesn't work.

I think this Beta wasn't executed very well though. We are supposedly having BTB in Halo 5.
Yet, we didn't touch a vehicle in The Beta. Play on a big map, have 8-8 teams.

If BTB is in (which it should, it's Halo for crying out loud), then I expect it to be pretty broken.

Because there'll very likely be a second Beta. The game still has just under a year left in development.

Just because BTB wasn't in an extremely early beta means nothing.

Woah what'd I miss

Quote from: Val 'Ketam on February 02, 2015, 04:49:33 PM

Quote from: Mr. Admirals on February 02, 2015, 04:47:42 PM

Quote from: Val 'Ketam on February 02, 2015, 04:43:02 PM

I miss the fun stuff when I'm at school huh?

Sprint in Halo 5? Well, I doubt 343 would increase the base player speed to compensate, so I expect them to leave it in. Clambering is cool, but it's weird not jumping as high as I did in Halo CE-2-3.

Do I think it causes issues? Yeah.
Maps are stretched, and people run from battles. Sure the whole "you sprint then your shield won't recharge" idea is great, but people still run from battles all the time.

I'll still play it at launch, I may get bored of it like Halo 4, but it's not my ideal incarnation of Halo. However I don't make the decisions, so what happens happens.

Sprint isn't confirmed to be in. It most likely will be, but not yet.

We don't even know how Halo 5 is being rebalanced yet. Bravo confirmed that Josh Holmes is working on the list of changes they're making based on Beta feedback. It'll be out soon.

As for Sprint, I do agree with part of your assessment. However, 343i has also said that Sprint originally had much harsher penalties before the beta. Hopefully they'll be reinstated. I think that Sprint is good and fun mechanic if it can only be used offensively. If it can be used defensively, It doesn't work.

I think this Beta wasn't executed very well though. We are supposedly having BTB in Halo 5.
Yet, we didn't touch a vehicle in The Beta. Play on a big map, have 8-8 teams.

If BTB is in (which it should, it's Halo for crying out loud), then I expect it to be pretty broken.

In the context of it being called the "Halo 5: Guardians Arena Multiplayer Beta" I think it was executed quite well.

We haven't even heard a single thing about BTB in Halo 5 yet. Let's wait for official info before determining its brokenness, then we can debate over that. For all we know, BTB will be vastly different than the Arena side. Traditionally, BTB has just been Arena Halo blown up to 16 players on large maps. Nothing else.

ayy

If Challenger is being a ruseman he is fucking owning it.

Quote from: Val 'Ketam on February 02, 2015, 04:49:33 PM

I think this Beta wasn't executed very well though. We are supposedly having BTB in Halo 5.
Yet, we didn't touch a vehicle in The Beta. Play on a big map, have 8-8 teams.

If BTB is in (which it should, it's Halo for crying out loud), then I expect it to be pretty broken.

Because there'll very likely be a second Beta. The game still has just under a year left in development.

Just because BTB wasn't in an extremely early beta means nothing.

A second Beta?

Source?

Came in here expecting pointless arguments


Oh boy I left pleased

Quote from: Val 'Ketam on February 02, 2015, 08:59:01 PM

Quote from: BritishLemön on February 02, 2015, 04:51:59 PM

Quote from: Val 'Ketam on February 02, 2015, 04:49:33 PM

I think this Beta wasn't executed very well though. We are supposedly having BTB in Halo 5.
Yet, we didn't touch a vehicle in The Beta. Play on a big map, have 8-8 teams.

If BTB is in (which it should, it's Halo for crying out loud), then I expect it to be pretty broken.

Because there'll very likely be a second Beta. The game still has just under a year left in development.

Just because BTB wasn't in an extremely early beta means nothing.

A second Beta?

Source?

Reading usually helps.
It was called the Halo 5: Guardians Arena Beta for a reason.

And you are running off of assumptions.
You have no proof there will be another Beta, and I have proof there are not plans for a 2nd Beta.

Finally, I couldn’t help but notice that 343 has been very specific that this is the “Arena” multiplayer beta? Does that mean we're going to get a second multiplayer beta closer to release that includes vehicles and larger player counts? - IGN

“We currently have no plans for a second multiplayer beta,” Holmes said, shooting me down. “The Arena experience showcases the core Spartan abilities and mechanics that provide a foundation for other modes throughout the game. We’ll have more to discuss on the remainder of our multiplayer suite next year including larger, more vehicle-focused experiences. For now we are wholly focused on the current beta and looking forward to hearing feedback from participants.” - Josh Holmes

source

Quote from: Mr. Admirals on February 02, 2015, 04:27:34 PM

Quote from: challengerX on February 02, 2015, 04:11:12 PM

Not really, you're just wrong.

Would you care to actually substantiate your argument with evidence? When I have stated you were wrong, I provided rather concrete evidence to support my argument. If you want to have a "Yes! No!" argument, find someone else.

Quote

It does, that's why it was so popular.

Except that now you're repeating yourself. Halo 2 was popular even when it was severely broken and unbalanced for close to 6 months. I think that is enough evidence to refute that the competitiveness is what made it popular. Of course, once tournaments began to be held, that attracted more attention. You can really do that with any game though.

Look at Smite, the recently had a HUGE ass tournament that raked in a ton of money and attention for the game and devs, despite the fact it's arguably inferior to LoL. Call of Duty has done this before as well despite the fact it's not even that competitive.

Quote

The Rubik's Cube is a ton of fun and challenging/competitive. Just like Halo.

I would argue against how fun a Rubix cube actually is if you don't know how to solve it. As for the challenging aspect, sure but the competitiveness wasn't built into the Rubix cube. It's a construct of its fans and buyers.

Quote

The Halo trilogy has the best and most competitive gameplay. End of story m'lord.

Saying something doesn't just make it true. Show me why it's true.

If you're the type of person who doesn't consider the Halo trilogy the best, you're a lost cause to begin with. Anybody who's actually good at Halo would agree.

No, you can't. Not consistently have a huge competitive crowd of players for 2 games straight. That's really something you only see on PC gaming.

It's inherently competitive. And because it's fair and fun, that's why the Rubik's has such a huge following.

It is true. There's really nithing else to say other than the gameplay is the most balanced and fun. All the aspects that make Halo multiplayer great are absent in games not part of the trilogy.

I told you to come back with evidence if you're going to tell me I am wrong.

Go find someone else to spew rubbish at.