Quote from: oss on December 01, 2017, 02:14:57 PM

My issues with CS can be summed up very quickly. I went into them in detail during my stream today, but I'll give you the shortened version.

Spoiler

1. Inaccurate weapons. I hate them. It's one of my worst pet peeves in shooters. I can understand some bullet spread and definitely some recoil too, but I can't stand how CS does it. Your bullets have enormous spread and are completely random if you fire while walking. I know you can learn the patterns of recoil and deal with them, but even they don't really apply when you're moving fast. In order to be accurate, you need to be pretty much entirely still, tap the fire button and crouch if possible. This even shows in high tiers of players where pros in major tournaments who surprise each other end up doing a lot of spraying and randomness / luck playing a big factor in who comes out on top. Huge negative for me.

2. Pace of the game. It's slow and extremely campy. You don't see anyone for minutes on end and then most fights end in a quick burst. You play the game walking slowly with your crosshair lined up with a door or passage that you expect an enemy to come through. Hugging corners and clipping your head over boxes is a big part of the game's core gameplay and I'm just not a fan of that. Death comes quickly, punishes you hard and has you sit out the next couple of minutes doing nothing. It promotes snail-paced gameplay and campy tactics.

3. The tactics. CS tactics are really not very deep or extremely complicated. It's an asymmetrical game with maps that don't have a lot of verticality and tend to consist of only a few main routes. The CT side swarms out and covers key choke points. The T side spreads out and runs a set-up. Grenades, smokes and flashes are thrown. Callouts are made and the composition of who stands where changes slightly. I haven't even watched all that much competitive CS and even I already see recurring strategies and identical scenarios playing out. There's mindgames and obviously a decent amount of tactics involved, but the thinking required is ultimately pretty limited and in my opinion pretty lackluster.

That said, CS:GO is still a good game. I just don't enjoy these three aspects of it. It's what pushed me away from the game in the past. I want and intend to give it another chance because it can be pretty hype, fun and high adrenaline, but I just feel like it's fundamentally not my thing.

Quote from: oss on December 01, 2017, 10:29:25 PM

Quote from: Flee on December 01, 2017, 08:33:09 PM

Quote from: oss on December 01, 2017, 02:14:57 PM

My issues with CS can be summed up very quickly. I went into them in detail during my stream today, but I'll give you the shortened version.

Spoiler

1. Inaccurate weapons. I hate them. It's one of my worst pet peeves in shooters. I can understand some bullet spread and definitely some recoil too, but I can't stand how CS does it. Your bullets have enormous spread and are completely random if you fire while walking. I know you can learn the patterns of recoil and deal with them, but even they don't really apply when you're moving fast. In order to be accurate, you need to be pretty much entirely still, tap the fire button and crouch if possible. This even shows in high tiers of players where pros in major tournaments who surprise each other end up doing a lot of spraying and randomness / luck playing a big factor in who comes out on top. Huge negative for me.

2. Pace of the game. It's slow and extremely campy. You don't see anyone for minutes on end and then most fights end in a quick burst. You play the game walking slowly with your crosshair lined up with a door or passage that you expect an enemy to come through. Hugging corners and clipping your head over boxes is a big part of the game's core gameplay and I'm just not a fan of that. Death comes quickly, punishes you hard and has you sit out the next couple of minutes doing nothing. It promotes snail-paced gameplay and campy tactics.

3. The tactics. CS tactics are really not very deep or extremely complicated. It's an asymmetrical game with maps that don't have a lot of verticality and tend to consist of only a few main routes. The CT side swarms out and covers key choke points. The T side spreads out and runs a set-up. Grenades, smokes and flashes are thrown. Callouts are made and the composition of who stands where changes slightly. I haven't even watched all that much competitive CS and even I already see recurring strategies and identical scenarios playing out. There's mindgames and obviously a decent amount of tactics involved, but the thinking required is ultimately pretty limited and in my opinion pretty lackluster.

That said, CS:GO is still a good game. I just don't enjoy these three aspects of it. It's what pushed me away from the game in the past. I want and intend to give it another chance because it can be pretty hype, fun and high adrenaline, but I just feel like it's fundamentally not my thing.

Coming from a arena shooter perspective, its what i expected. Id somewhat disagree on all points though.
I dont wanna be THAT guy but some of this can be attributed to inexperience <.<

Please do try to play competitive though because its the proper experience.

Can you elaborate? I don't think anything I said is incorrect. One of my friends is a CS semi-pro who played in a bunch of tournaments. We've discussed this several times and even he agrees with just about everything I said. I mean, you can disagree with me that these things make the game less fun, but I'm curious where you think I'm just flat-out wrong.

There is a great deal of inaccuracy to the weapons. I don't see how that's wrong to say. Watch any competitve match and you'll see that he vast majority of kills involve someone crouching or standing pretty much entirely still, as doing anything else (with most weapons) turns your shots into a random mess. Up close confrontations are aiming at the other person's chest area, dragging your mouse down to compensate for recoil and hoping for the best. There are ways to manage the randomness better (crouching, tapping left/right, standing still) but I simply don't like them.

The game is slow. That's even more of a fact than the first point. Time spent firing at people or being fired at is a really small portion of the game. Most of it is spent walking in between chokepoints and keeping your crosshair at a doorway. I again don't see how that is wrong to say. This is a pro match between two top teams. Click just about anywhere on the timeline and you're almost guaranteed to see people standing around, peaking over boxes or around corners, or just holding down areas of the map or slowly advancing through them until they run into a person on the other side doing the same.

The tactics is something I can concede I know the least about and might be wrong. I've just followed the esports scene for quite a while and never really found anything to prove me wrong. There's a lot of mindgames and faking going on, but that's all at the team level which is problematic if you don't have a team to play and coordinate with. I feel like there's not that much going on at the individual level and even watching Launder's Playbreakers videos on supposedly incredible / brilliant plays are not all that impressive to me.

I'm not attacking the game. It's cool to watch at a high level and it does take a lot of coordination, team strategy and aim skills. There's no denying any of that and for those reasons I do want to get into the game more. But to me, having to deal with the inaccuracy of guns is detrimental to the gunplay, the slow and campy pace of the game is kind of boring, and the relative shallowness of individual tactics is kind of offputting.

I plan on playing the game again in the futre and stream myself learning it. I'd appreciate your input.

Quote from: Poetic Carnage on December 03, 2017, 05:22:43 AM

Why you no Titanfall 2?

I've played Titanfall 2 several times but not in the last week. I even have my own Network and a happy hour and shit. I'm new to the game and it seems to be going well, but I can always do with more advice.

Quote from: Poetic Carnage on December 03, 2017, 05:22:43 AM

Why you no Titanfall 2?

I've played Titanfall 2 several times but not in the last week. I even have my own Network and a happy hour and shit. I'm new to the game and it seems to be going well, but I can always do with more advice.

Quote from: Flee on December 04, 2017, 11:46:23 AM

Quote from: BaconShelf on December 04, 2017, 06:57:25 AM

Quote from: Flee on December 03, 2017, 07:25:40 PM

Quote from: Poetic Carnage on December 03, 2017, 05:22:43 AM

Why you no Titanfall 2?

I've played Titanfall 2 several times but not in the last week. I even have my own Network and a happy hour and shit. I'm new to the game and it seems to be going well, but I can always do with more advice.

What's your loadout fam

I don't have a specific one but have just been trying stuff out. I've been using the CAR, Spitfire LMG, Kraber and then some SMG's. I usually use Tone as my titan and like the perk that heals you and gives a speedboost.

>playing meta loadouts

You're probably using the most effective loadout in the game right now. If you like the Kraber, they updated the game so the Wingman Elite revolver can be equipped as a primary. It performs like a Kraber except only killing on a headshot (2 to the body), but is projectile. The EPG is basically an arena shooter style rocket launcher and it's really fun to use.

Tone's a pretty well rounded Titan if a bit bland. I'm fond of Legion, Scorch and Northstar myself.

Quote from: oss on December 03, 2017, 02:11:10 AM

Waiiiiiiiiiiiit i dont think youre flatout wrong .-. your points are valid. I just dont fully agree.

Fair enough! As I said, I think my points are accurate and truthful, but I know that this doesn't necessarily make the game any less fun to some.

Also, how good are you? Because I need a coach. :p

Spoiler

Quote from: oss on December 04, 2017, 06:13:09 PM

Quote from: Flee on December 03, 2017, 07:16:10 PM

Quote from: oss on December 03, 2017, 02:11:10 AM

Waiiiiiiiiiiiit i dont think youre flatout wrong .-. your points are valid. I just dont fully agree.

Fair enough! As I said, I think my points are accurate and truthful, but I know that this doesn't necessarily make the game any less fun to some.

Also, how good are you? Because I need a coach. :p

Above average i suppose, im only really lacking in aim currently because of my shitty mouse. Master Guardian Elite in competitive.

Spoiler

It ain't no global elite, but it'll do. You're hired. When do we start?