friendly reminder that realism=/=quality gameplay

Azumarill · February 04, 2015, 04:36:13 PM

Quote from: Classic Mordo on February 04, 2015, 04:34:02 PM

Prolly just going to get the mods in to lock this thread.

This forum is literally cancer. Don't know why I bother spending time here.

what would they lock it for? this has been a very civil discussion. i have provided all the proper sources for my arguments against TLOU's "realism" and i have given you ample opportunity to do the same for your argument. dont back out on me now... it was just getting fun =]

Mordo · February 04, 2015, 04:38:55 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 04:36:13 PM

Quote from: Classic Mordo on February 04, 2015, 04:34:02 PM
Prolly just going to get the mods in to lock this thread.

This forum is literally cancer. Don't know why I bother spending time here.
what would they lock it for? this has been a very civil discussion. i have provided all the proper sources for my arguments against TLOU's "realism" and i have given you ample opportunity to do the same for your argument. dont back out on me now... it was just getting fun =]

This thread has been derailed to fuck over the basis of a word. That warrants a lock.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · February 04, 2015, 04:39:33 PM

People, Mordo isn't saying that TLOU is realistic (it isn't). That's why he specified backdrop. Zombies are clearly fictional, but how everyone reacts to a fatal and highly contagious infection isn't that out there. How it handles an apocalyptic scenario isn't that far fetched either.

Azumarill · February 04, 2015, 04:39:54 PM

Quote from: Classic Mordo on February 04, 2015, 04:38:55 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 04:36:13 PM
Quote from: Classic Mordo on February 04, 2015, 04:34:02 PM
Prolly just going to get the mods in to lock this thread.

This forum is literally cancer. Don't know why I bother spending time here.
what would they lock it for? this has been a very civil discussion. i have provided all the proper sources for my arguments against TLOU's "realism" and i have given you ample opportunity to do the same for your argument. dont back out on me now... it was just getting fun =]
This thread has been derailed to fuck over the basis of a word. That warrants a lock.

derailed? we're simply having a discussion about TLOU's realism. this is actually very on topic. i would know, since i made the thread..

Mordo · February 04, 2015, 04:40:41 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 04:39:54 PM

Quote from: Classic Mordo on February 04, 2015, 04:38:55 PM
Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 04:36:13 PM
Quote from: Classic Mordo on February 04, 2015, 04:34:02 PM
Prolly just going to get the mods in to lock this thread.

This forum is literally cancer. Don't know why I bother spending time here.
what would they lock it for? this has been a very civil discussion. i have provided all the proper sources for my arguments against TLOU's "realism" and i have given you ample opportunity to do the same for your argument. dont back out on me now... it was just getting fun =]
This thread has been derailed to fuck over the basis of a word. That warrants a lock.
derailed? we're simply having a discussion about TLOU's realism. this is actually very on topic. i would know, since i made the thread..

No, we're not. This thread has turned into a flamewar over the definitions of words and fucking biology.

Azumarill · February 04, 2015, 04:41:03 PM

Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 04, 2015, 04:39:33 PM

People, Mordo isn't saying that TLOU is realistic (it isn't). That's why he specified backdrop. Zombies are clearly fictional, but how everyone reacts to a fatal and highly contagious infection isn't that out there. How it handles an apocalyptic scenario isn't that far fetched either.

the general idea is founded in a very un-realistic setting, so i would argue that it doesnt qualify as realistic by virtue of its inherent theme. that's all im saying, fundamentally

aMetroid · February 04, 2015, 04:41:47 PM

Quote from: Classic Mordo on February 04, 2015, 04:34:02 PM

Prolly just going to get the mods in to lock this thread.

This forum is literally cancer. Don't know why I bother spending time here.

Your attitude is horrible, it's not the gaming forum. All you need to do is stop replying if your done arguing, damn.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · February 04, 2015, 04:46:21 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 04:41:03 PM

Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 04, 2015, 04:39:33 PM
People, Mordo isn't saying that TLOU is realistic (it isn't). That's why he specified backdrop. Zombies are clearly fictional, but how everyone reacts to a fatal and highly contagious infection isn't that out there. How it handles an apocalyptic scenario isn't that far fetched either.
the general idea is founded in a very un-realistic setting, so i would argue that it doesnt qualify as realistic by virtue of its inherent theme. that's all im saying, fundamentally

Nobody is disagreeing that TLOU is unrealistic. A backdrop is defined as, "the setting or conditions within which something happens". The conditions being "a highly contagious and fatal infection spreads throughout the US (most likely the world) and results in a failing of government agencies to hold society together. How do people react to this?"

Azumarill · February 04, 2015, 04:50:12 PM

Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 04, 2015, 04:46:21 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 04:41:03 PM
Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 04, 2015, 04:39:33 PM
People, Mordo isn't saying that TLOU is realistic (it isn't). That's why he specified backdrop. Zombies are clearly fictional, but how everyone reacts to a fatal and highly contagious infection isn't that out there. How it handles an apocalyptic scenario isn't that far fetched either.
the general idea is founded in a very un-realistic setting, so i would argue that it doesnt qualify as realistic by virtue of its inherent theme. that's all im saying, fundamentally
Nobody is disagreeing that TLOU is unrealistic. A backdrop is defined as, "the setting or conditions within which something happens". The conditions being "a highly contagious and fatal infection spreads throughout the US (most likely the world) and results in a failing of government agencies to hold society together. How do people react to this?"

yes, TLOU does deal with those things in a plausible way. but, as we've established, for something to be considered realistic, it needs to be grounded in reality and fidelity to nature/real life with accurate representation and without idealization. In the case of TLOU, is it fundamentally grounded in a very unrealistic theme- it handles the consequences of the outbreak in a solid, plausible way, but by its very nature it is rendered unrealistic, and isn't fit to be mentioned in the realm of "realistic video games." does that make sense?

🍁 Aria 🔮 · February 04, 2015, 04:53:04 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 04:50:12 PM

Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 04, 2015, 04:46:21 PM
Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 04:41:03 PM
Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 04, 2015, 04:39:33 PM
People, Mordo isn't saying that TLOU is realistic (it isn't). That's why he specified backdrop. Zombies are clearly fictional, but how everyone reacts to a fatal and highly contagious infection isn't that out there. How it handles an apocalyptic scenario isn't that far fetched either.
the general idea is founded in a very un-realistic setting, so i would argue that it doesnt qualify as realistic by virtue of its inherent theme. that's all im saying, fundamentally
Nobody is disagreeing that TLOU is unrealistic. A backdrop is defined as, "the setting or conditions within which something happens". The conditions being "a highly contagious and fatal infection spreads throughout the US (most likely the world) and results in a failing of government agencies to hold society together. How do people react to this?"
yes, TLOU does deal with those things in a plausible way. but, as we've established, for something to be considered realistic, it needs to be grounded in reality and fidelity to nature/real life with accurate representation and without idealization. In the case of TLOU, is it fundamentally grounded in a very unrealistic theme- it handles the consequences of the outbreak in a solid, plausible way, but by its very nature it is rendered unrealistic, and isn't fit to be mentioned in the realm of "realistic video games." does that make sense?

This is why I started with "TLOU isn't realistic". Nobody has debated that, nobody disagrees with you. You're equating the whole of the game-- which is unrealistic-- to the backdrop, the only thing he mentioned in his post.

TLOU is unrealistic.
The backdrop isn't. You are both correct because you are both arguing two different points.

Girl of Mystery · February 04, 2015, 04:54:34 PM

Holy shit this thread got derailed hard

RomanGladiator · February 04, 2015, 04:58:57 PM

I agree and I think that can work both ways. On one hand some very realistic games that I have enjoyed in the past have been the original Ghost Recon, and the Rainbow Six series. There is a steep learning curve, and someone who is not used to a game like the original Ghost Recon might think it has terrible gameplay.

On the other hand, think of a game like Timesplitters 2: dual-wielding Thompson Submachine guns as a Gingerbread man, just 'cause is pure fun.

Azumarill · February 04, 2015, 05:01:10 PM

Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 04, 2015, 04:53:04 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 04:50:12 PM
Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 04, 2015, 04:46:21 PM
Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 04:41:03 PM
Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 04, 2015, 04:39:33 PM
People, Mordo isn't saying that TLOU is realistic (it isn't). That's why he specified backdrop. Zombies are clearly fictional, but how everyone reacts to a fatal and highly contagious infection isn't that out there. How it handles an apocalyptic scenario isn't that far fetched either.
the general idea is founded in a very un-realistic setting, so i would argue that it doesnt qualify as realistic by virtue of its inherent theme. that's all im saying, fundamentally
Nobody is disagreeing that TLOU is unrealistic. A backdrop is defined as, "the setting or conditions within which something happens". The conditions being "a highly contagious and fatal infection spreads throughout the US (most likely the world) and results in a failing of government agencies to hold society together. How do people react to this?"
yes, TLOU does deal with those things in a plausible way. but, as we've established, for something to be considered realistic, it needs to be grounded in reality and fidelity to nature/real life with accurate representation and without idealization. In the case of TLOU, is it fundamentally grounded in a very unrealistic theme- it handles the consequences of the outbreak in a solid, plausible way, but by its very nature it is rendered unrealistic, and isn't fit to be mentioned in the realm of "realistic video games." does that make sense?
This is why I started with "TLOU isn't realistic". Nobody has debated that, nobody disagrees with you. You're equating the whole of the game-- which is unrealistic-- to the backdrop, the only thing he mentioned in his post.

TLOU is unrealistic.
The backdrop isn't. You are both correct because you are both arguing two different points.

i could go all day picking this stuff apart and arguing semantic logic but im not getting through to you guys so ill leave it at this. the backdrop of TLOU fundamentally includes its setting, which is grounded in the fictional spread of a (fictionally mutated) fungus across the world and the consequences of that fungal outbreak on society. the execution is realistic for its context, but the context itself is inherently unrealistic, so it lies entirely in the realm of non-reality.

now, how does this tie in with the OP? TLOU's gameplay wants to be realistic, but the AI is so goddamn retarded that the execution falls flat on its face. the actual story progresses logically and plausibly within the confines of the overarching theme, but as i stated before, it's inherently unrealistic. so, at the core of things, if we categorize games into "realistic," and "unrealistic," TLOU obviously falls into the latter category. but that begs the question; how many games are actually realistic, then? how many games are close enough to reality to actually qualify as fundamentally realistic? i think that's the question we should really be finding the answer to, because this argument is going nowhere fast.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · February 04, 2015, 05:13:42 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 05:01:10 PM

i could go all day picking this stuff apart and arguing semantic logic but im not getting through to you guys so ill leave it at this.

Everyone understands exactly what you're saying. We're all in agreement. We're discussing different facets of the game, and because of that our statements on it being realistic and unrealistic are both correct.

Quote

the backdrop of TLOU fundamentally includes its setting, which is grounded in the fictional spread of a (fictionally mutated) fungus across the world and the consequences of that fungal outbreak on society. the execution is realistic for its context, but the context itself is inherently unrealistic, so it lies entirely in the realm of non-reality.

The backdrop does not necessitate-- nor preclude-- finer details. Hence, "a biological infection" instead of specifically "Cordycep zombies". The backdrop-- which by the original statement excludes the finer details [not contradicting the definition] of the game like zombies or gameplay comprimises (e.g. health kits healing bullet wounds)-- is realistic.

Quote

now, how does this tie in with the OP? TLOU's gameplay wants to be realistic, but the AI is so goddamn retarded that the execution falls flat on its face. the actual story progresses logically and plausibly within the confines of the overarching theme, but as i stated before, it's inherently unrealistic.

Nobody said that the AI is realistic. Nobody said zombies are realistic. Only that the backdrop is. One facet of the game, not the whole, not a single other thing.

Quote

so, at the core of things, if we categorize games into "realistic," and "unrealistic," TLOU obviously falls into the latter category.

Unarguably correct. But that wasn't what he was arguing.

Quote

but that begs the question; how many games are actually realistic, then? how many games are close enough to reality to actually qualify as fundamentally realistic? i think that's the question we should really be finding the answer to, because this argument is going nowhere fast.

Realistic, as overarching term for media such as games, would be quantified on how close it (as a sum of all its parts) is to reality. The least amount of compromises made in terms of reality would be "realistic".

Azumarill · February 04, 2015, 05:50:39 PM

I think, fundamentally, the important issue here is that realism requires an effort against idealization- as you said, the least amount of compromises in terms of reality contributes to just how realistic something is. Now, with that said, the thing I'm arguing against is the entire concept- it's so grounded in non-realism, from the very idea of a mutated fungus spreading and killing 60% of the population (a very idealized version of something that has very little precedent in reality) to the absolutely dreadful execution of the "realistic" gameplay (which is important to talk about with regard to the intent of the original post.) So, TLOU is disqualified from "realism" on all fronts, assuming we're all working off the same definition of realism. Now, where does that leave us? I think we should ignore TLOU completely in a discussion about realism in games.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · February 04, 2015, 05:58:59 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 05:50:39 PM

on all fronts

This is the disagreement, right here. Something can have aspects of realism and still be unrealistic as a whole. For example-- on a smaller scale-- reloading a gun isn't unrealistic, or throwing a brick to create a diversion isn't unrealistic. The backdrop can be realistic while the game, as a whole, is unrealistic. I don't know how I can say it more perfectly than, "the backdrop is realistic, but everything else is unrealistic."

Azumarill · February 04, 2015, 06:33:52 PM

Quote from: Prime Meridia on February 04, 2015, 05:58:59 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 05:50:39 PM
on all fronts
This is the disagreement, right here. Something can have aspects of realism and still be unrealistic as a whole. For example-- on a smaller scale-- reloading a gun isn't unrealistic, or throwing a brick to create a diversion isn't unrealistic. The backdrop can be realistic while the game, as a whole, is unrealistic. I don't know how I can say it more perfectly than, "the backdrop is realistic, but everything else is unrealistic."

That's the thing, I don't think the backdrop is realistic.... I thought I made that clear

Mattie G Indahouse · February 04, 2015, 06:38:28 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 02:39:52 PM

Quote from: BritishLemön on February 04, 2015, 02:38:08 PM
Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 02:34:36 PM
Quote from: Classic Mordo on February 04, 2015, 02:34:07 PM
Quote from: Azumarill on February 04, 2015, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: Classic Mordo on February 04, 2015, 02:32:21 PM
or realistic(ish) settings and backdrops like The Last Of Us?
lol

lol

LOL
Hm?
realistic games

the last of us

pick one
>backdrop

Cordyceps are a real thing you know.
let me know when the cordyceps zombies are real, too, so we can take a picture

It's only a matter of time until it jumps to mammals.

Spoiler

YouTube

There's also a cat parasite called toxoplasma which affects mice. It causes them to be fearless and move in closer to the cat. This parasite also affects humans as well to a degree. Then there's those parasites or whatever it is that causes insects to guard hornets eggs.