Fallout 3 Impressions Thread - Progress: Complete (Main Quest)

In the end I'm glad you gave the middle finger to The Enclave and Eden.

i remember you telling me to destroy every enclave eye-bot, and i questioned it at first

now i understand why

Ad victoriam brother

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm pretty pumped to play Dark Souls next.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm pretty pumped to play Dark Souls next.

Pretty pumped to give it a 3/10?

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm pretty pumped to play Dark Souls next.

Pretty pumped to give it a 3/10?

depends on if i choose to play on or offline, i suppose

still having a mental debate on that

i won't dig for flaws, i promise

wooo

Colonel autumn was a good guy. Still nevsr figured out why you have to work against him.

Colonel autumn was a good guy. Still nevsr figured out why you have to work against him.

I still don't understand why he is still antagonistic even though he wants the same thing as the brotherhood. Seeing as it's Eden that wants to kill basically everything with even a little radiation damage

Colonel autumn was a good guy. Still nevsr figured out why you have to work against him.

I still don't understand why he is still antagonistic even though he wants the same thing as the brotherhood. Seeing as it's Eden that wants to kill basically everything with even a little radiation damage

Yeah. Autumn was much better placed to be able to distribute the water and rebuild civilisation than the Brotherhood. Especially considering what happens in Broken Steel (which I won't spoil for Verb) with the purifier.

It was a really dumb choice. I wish that we could have got both to work together.

Colonel autumn was a good guy. Still nevsr figured out why you have to work against him.

Yeah, that kinda rubbed me the wrong way, too--since Autumn obviously doesn't agree with Eden's extreme methods, as Eden himself explained. I think the idea was that, no matter how you slice it, Autumn still threatened to kill your father--and that makes him unmitigable to the Lone Wanderer's eyes, no matter which path you take.

just a ballpark

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm pretty pumped to play Dark Souls next.

ARE YOU FUCKING READY TO TOUCH FLUFFY TAIL

Reminder that Broken Steel is non-canon

Reminder that Broken Steel is non-canon

Is it?

Reminder that Broken Steel is non-canon

Is it?

It is canon.

oh

don't confuse me

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm pretty pumped to play Dark Souls next.

Are you sure?

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm pretty pumped to play Dark Souls next.

Are you sure?

Yeah. I'd like to make peace with the whole thing, kinda like how I did with Halo.

I want to hear the tales of Verb v The Four Kings

Colonel autumn was a good guy. Still nevsr figured out why you have to work against him.

Yeah, that kinda rubbed me the wrong way, too--since Autumn obviously doesn't agree with Eden's extreme methods, as Eden himself explained. I think the idea was that, no matter how you slice it, Autumn still threatened to kill your father--and that makes him unmitigable to the Lone Wanderer's eyes, no matter which path you take.

just a ballpark

Yeah, it's kind of weird. Autumn was essentially the leader of the enclave in everything but name (Who did the soldiers listen to in Raven Rock?), and he wanted to use purified water as the basis of rebuilding America. The Enclave has the resources for rebuilding America, as they are able to build and maintain fully-functioning Aircraft, Power Armour and robots, whereas the brotherhood is still scavenging their gear.

It does seem you're only trying to stop him because the brotherhood told you so. And he's a bit of a dick.

New Vegas, should you ever get round to it, has a far better system by allowing you to choose any of the three factions or just ignore them all and build your own thing.

Because Autumn's goals weren't altruistic like the East Coast Brotherhood's. He wanted to use the purifier as a means of control, so everyone would flock to the Enclave and allow them to start becoming a major power again after the events of Fallout 2. Not as bad as Eden, but the Enclave as a group is an objectively evil organization, and there's no ethical reason to side with them when the BoS is an option.

Because Autumn's goals weren't altruistic like the East Coast Brotherhood's. He wanted to use the purifier as a means of control, so everyone would flock to the Enclave and allow them to start becoming a major power again after the events of Fallout 2. Not as bad as Eden, but the Enclave as a group is an objectively evil organization, and there's no ethical reason to side with them when the BoS is an option.

One of the things Luci said she doesn't like about this game is that it made the Brotherhood look out to be the good guys, instead of the bad guys they apparently were in the first two games. But from what I learned, the Brotherhood is made up of a series of branches that aren't led by any one individual, and so the subgroups could all have conflicting ideals. Kind of like how real gangs work. So what's the deal?

The Brotherhood traditionally isn't evil, they're morally ambiguous. Their main goal is to hoard powerful pre-war technology and prevent wastelanders from obtaining it, because in their minds, technology is what led to the Great War. And they alone have the caution to wield it. In the first two games, they're presented as asshole bigots who will occasionally work with you against larger threats (Super Mutants, the Enclave). There are branches, but also a central unifying command.

Bethesda, though, needed a big good organization for plotting purposes, I guess. And so they made the Brotherhood fit that role. Lore-wise, the Brotherhood you see in 3 was sent to the east coast just to expand the BoS's influence, but Elder Lyons saw the terrible conditions in the Capitol Wasteland and took it upon himself to fix things. He knew it deviated from his mission, but he did it anyway. The "Brotherhood Outcasts" you sometimes see are actually those who stayed loyal to the mission and seceded from Lyons, believing he was defying the Brotherhood.

Right. I can see how changing a big group's role in a story could be annoying, but I feel like that's a decent enough justification, and I think, ultimately, it makes the BoS all the more cool and interesting.

Yeah, it's far from my biggest complaint with the game. I just wish this was all made a bit more explicit and the Outcasts were given a larger role in the story. 3 was my first Fallout game, really the first game I got for my Xbox, and I didn't know any of this until I went back and played the earlier games and replayed 3 later in life.

Because Autumn's goals weren't altruistic like the East Coast Brotherhood's. He wanted to use the purifier as a means of control, so everyone would flock to the Enclave and allow them to start becoming a major power again after the events of Fallout 2. Not as bad as Eden, but the Enclave as a group is an objectively evil organization, and there's no ethical reason to side with them when the BoS is an option.

Autumn wanted to wipe out mutants, ghouls and such like any sane person would. But he realised that using the FEV would do more damage than good. He wanted to use the water as a way of establishing control; if he has a bargaining chip, there'd be a reason for people to flock to the Enclave and follow their laws. Eventually, if given enough time, they'd be able to begin establishing a 'new' USA, for better or for worse.

The Shoddycast guys did a video on it that explains it far better than I ever can. I'll link it if you like. It's a really interesting video.

Either way, I feel it important to distinguish that Eden != Autumn. Eden was batshit evil and there was literally no reason whatsoever to side with him. Autumn had a game plan, and was essentially the leader of the military anyway. Who listened to Eden when Autumn betrayed him?

The Brotherhood traditionally isn't evil, they're morally ambiguous. Their main goal is to hoard powerful pre-war technology and prevent wastelanders from obtaining it, because in their minds, technology is what led to the Great War. And they alone have the caution to wield it. In the first two games, they're presented as asshole bigots who will occasionally work with you against larger threats (Super Mutants, the Enclave). There are branches, but also a central unifying command.

Bethesda, though, needed a big good organization for plotting purposes, I guess. And so they made the Brotherhood fit that role. Lore-wise, the Brotherhood you see in 3 was sent to the east coast just to expand the BoS's influence, but Elder Lyons saw the terrible conditions in the Capitol Wasteland and took it upon himself to fix things. He knew it deviated from his mission, but he did it anyway. The "Brotherhood Outcasts" you sometimes see are actually those who stayed loyal to the mission and seceded from Lyons, believing he was defying the Brotherhood.

Personally, I like the role they've returned to in Fallout 4. They've maintained a healthy balance between the isolationist, militaristic and morally grey West-Coast chapters, while also realising accepting outsiders into their ranks and assisting their neighbours is what will keep them alive, and they've also returned to some founding principles such as the aquisition of high-end technology. Reading terminals on the Prydwen is really interesting, as you learn about how Maxson reunited the Outcasts and Brotherhood and got them working together for an overall goal. I like to imagine the eventually took the Pitt, and that's where they got the facilities to begin making their own tech like the Prydwen.

I have yet to play F4, but that's good to hear. I really need to get a PS4.

And of course Eden and Autumn are different. Eden was a pretty stock megalomaniacal AI, who didn't really care about the Enclave as much as he cared about America. Autumn's only goals were to take the purifier so he would reestablish the Enclave on the east coast and start restoring it to its former glory. Which, as you know, is a bad thing. Since the Enclave has no problems with genocide, forced genetic mutation, torture, and any number of heinous things. The future of the land under the Enclave may be stable, but it would be anything but good for its inhabitants. Certainly nowhere near the level of prosperity that the Capitol Wasteland under Lyons' BoS would be.

I have yet to play F4, but that's good to hear. I really need to get a PS4.

And of course Eden and Autumn are different. Eden was a pretty stock megalomaniacal AI, who didn't really care about the Enclave as much as he cared about America. Autumn's only goals were to take the purifier so he would reestablish the Enclave on the east coast and start restoring it to its former glory. Which, as you know, is a bad thing. Since the Enclave has no problems with genocide, forced genetic mutation, torture, and any number of heinous things. The future of the land under the Enclave may be stable, but it would be anything but good for its inhabitants. Certainly nowhere near the level of prosperity that the Capitol Wasteland under Lyons' BoS would be.

I never got the impression that Autumn cared for any of this. I never got the impression that he hted it, either, but he doesn't seem like that kind of guy. If he did care so much about that, why didn't he go along with the FEV plan? The old Enclave might have been fine with genocide and all that shit, but aside from wiping out super mutants, I don't really see why he would betray Eden as he did and then go along with how the Old Enclave was run anyway. It's really illogical. If he were only going along with Eden until he were in a stage to enact his own scheme and then fuck off with all the troops, then it's because his plan is one that Eden wouldn't accept; not using FEV, winning over the people of the wasteland and building a stable society built on co-operation between the Enclave having the resources and technology and the wasteland being the people who would obey their laws.

Autumn seems to want to use the Enclave as a force to be good. Honestly, Autumn and Lyons' goals weren't really that incompatible. If it weren't for the mandatory brotherhood-enclave war causing him to act like a bit of a dick, then I'd really choose Autumn over Brotherhood anytime.


Yeah. It's pretty awesome, the terminals and character dialogue give a bit of insight into what happened to the Brotherhood after Fallout 3. Sadly, we only have two returning characters from the Brotherhood, Maxson and Doctor Li (They say she went to the Commonwealth in Broken Steel so whatever it's not really a spoiler). Interesting stuff, and does well not to mention anything specific about Fallout 3 choices either.

I don't know why you got that impression. The problem with Eden's plan is that it wouldn't just wipe out super mutants and ghouls, but anyone with a hint of radiation. And those are the people that Autumn needs if he wants to establish Enclave superiority over the wastes. The Enclave has always depended on wastelanders, for manual labor, cultivating resources, and experimentation. That's why Eden's plan isn't in line with the Enclave's goals, but with the goal of a long-term fix to America itself. Autumn showed no sign that he would deviate from the legacy of the western Enclave, and proved himself to be just as ruthless as his counterparts plenty of times throughout the game. Autumn would never work with Lyons, because that would mean sharing control. His goals weren't altruistic, they were all for the Enclave.

I don't know why you got that impression. The problem with Eden's plan is that it wouldn't just wipe out super mutants and ghouls, but anyone with a hint of radiation. And those are the people that Autumn needs if he wants to establish Enclave superiority over the wastes. The Enclave has always depended on wastelanders, for manual labor, cultivating resources, and experimentation. That's why Eden's plan isn't in line with the Enclave's goals, but with the goal of a long-term fix to America itself. Autumn showed no sign that he would deviate from the legacy of the western Enclave, and proved himself to be just as ruthless as his counterparts plenty of times throughout the game. Autumn would never work with Lyons, because that would mean sharing control. His goals weren't altruistic, they were all for the Enclave.

What? The Enclave was always about pure humans and all that crap. That's why they were going to release an airborne variant of FEV in the first place. It's the reason that Eden even got the idea in the first place. Yes, the endgame was to rebuild America but at the cost of like, 90% of the population (exaggeration)

Autumn's unwillingness to use FEV shows he wasn't prepared to wipe out pretty much everyone. Maybe he did want to further his own goals and motives, but to what end we can't really say. It's hardly a short leap to expect that if he's against FEV, he's against slaves and genetic experiments and so forth. At least experiments on humans, anyway.

It's true that we can't fully know Autumn's motives, but based on his actions throughout the game, I highly doubt he had the best interests of the wasteland in mind. And it's exceedingly clear that he would never work with the Brotherhood. If you help him at Raven Rock and give him the real code, he straight-up executes you. To think that kind of judgment would be somehow different for others who work with him is wrong, IMO.

But yeah, that's one of the great things about the Fallout games. They don't spell everything out for you, which is why we get to have discussions like these.

Reading through some of this thread really makes me want to play fallout 3 again...I pretty much only went through the main quest and never really deviated away from being the generic gun-toting good guy. Then once I completed the main quest I just stopped playing the game entirely