Dark Souls remastered

Dietrich Six · June 02, 2018, 03:53:54 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2018, 10:34:41 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 01, 2018, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2018, 10:25:23 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 01, 2018, 10:21:57 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2018, 09:35:33 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 01, 2018, 09:32:20 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2018, 09:27:46 PM
Right

invasions are cancer and anyone who does them should be slaughtered in real life
From a strictly lore perspective, you're an idiot.
except not at all, because NPC invasions exist, so remove pvp invasions from the game and the lore is wholly unaffected

even then, hardwiring toxic behavior to the game's very plot only makes it worse and even less defensible
I have to gain humanity by stealing yours
no, you don't

NPCs

humanity is even attainable from regular fucking enemies
I'm not gonna farm rats all day when I can just booty blast you real quick and cop that humanity.
thank you for admitting that you're certifiably incorrect about it being a lore issue

so we're back to my previous statement

invasions are cancer and anyone who does them should be slaughtered in real life

It actually makes sense lore wise, but you're too much of a scrub to understand.

Verbatim · June 02, 2018, 04:26:37 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 02, 2018, 03:53:54 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2018, 10:34:41 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 01, 2018, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2018, 10:25:23 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 01, 2018, 10:21:57 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2018, 09:35:33 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 01, 2018, 09:32:20 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2018, 09:27:46 PM
Right

invasions are cancer and anyone who does them should be slaughtered in real life
From a strictly lore perspective, you're an idiot.
except not at all, because NPC invasions exist, so remove pvp invasions from the game and the lore is wholly unaffected

even then, hardwiring toxic behavior to the game's very plot only makes it worse and even less defensible
I have to gain humanity by stealing yours
no, you don't

NPCs

humanity is even attainable from regular fucking enemies
I'm not gonna farm rats all day when I can just booty blast you real quick and cop that humanity.
thank you for admitting that you're certifiably incorrect about it being a lore issue

so we're back to my previous statement

invasions are cancer and anyone who does them should be slaughtered in real life
It actually makes sense lore wise, but you're too much of a scrub to understand.

i never said it didn't make sense

i said two things
1. you don't need real humans to invade each other
2. encouraging toxic behavior online is unjustifiable regardless of anything

Dietrich Six · June 02, 2018, 04:59:26 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2018, 10:34:41 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 01, 2018, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2018, 10:25:23 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 01, 2018, 10:21:57 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2018, 09:35:33 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 01, 2018, 09:32:20 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on June 01, 2018, 09:27:46 PM
Right

invasions are cancer and anyone who does them should be slaughtered in real life
From a strictly lore perspective, you're an idiot.
except not at all, because NPC invasions exist, so remove pvp invasions from the game and the lore is wholly unaffected

even then, hardwiring toxic behavior to the game's very plot only makes it worse and even less defensible
I have to gain humanity by stealing yours
no, you don't

NPCs

humanity is even attainable from regular fucking enemies
I'm not gonna farm rats all day when I can just booty blast you real quick and cop that humanity.
thank you for admitting that you're certifiably incorrect about it being a lore issue

Dietrich Six · June 02, 2018, 04:59:42 PM

Just go offline you crybaby

Dietrich Six · June 02, 2018, 05:04:01 PM

I'm all seriousness I really like it as a plot enhancer but I understand why people don't like being invaded.

Verbatim · June 02, 2018, 05:14:47 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 02, 2018, 04:59:26 PM

thank you for admitting that you're certifiably incorrect about it being a lore issue

did you have a purpose in requoting this

Quote

Just go offline you crybaby

i've been offline for 99% of my 120 hour playthrough, i'm still allowed to bitch about stupid features

Quote

I'm all seriousness I really like it as a plot enhancer but I understand why people don't like being invaded.

even if i agreed, it's still extremely poorly thought out

i get that the idea is to counterbalance using summons for bosses, and that's all well and good, but since i'm not using summons anyway, all i'm trying to do with my humanity is kindle bonfires—that's it—and even though i'm still technically running the risk of invasion, there's pretty much nothing stopping me from just running off a cliff and recovering my souls then and there, for absolutely no real penalty, and the bonfire remains permanently kindled no matter what

which pretty much renders the entire "risk" of the situation void, so it's like they didn't give it any thought whatsoever

i like it when things are given thought

Dietrich Six · June 02, 2018, 05:52:24 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 02, 2018, 05:14:47 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 02, 2018, 04:59:26 PM
thank you for admitting that you're certifiably incorrect about it being a lore issue
did you have a purpose in requoting this
Quote
Just go offline you crybaby
i've been offline for 99% of my 120 hour playthrough, i'm still allowed to bitch about stupid features
Quote
I'm all seriousness I really like it as a plot enhancer but I understand why people don't like being invaded.
even if i agreed, it's still extremely poorly thought out

i get that the idea is to counterbalance using summons for bosses, and that's all well and good, but since i'm not using summons anyway, all i'm trying to do with my humanity is kindle bonfires—that's it—and even though i'm still technically running the risk of invasion, there's pretty much nothing stopping me from just running off a cliff and recovering my souls then and there, for absolutely no real penalty, and the bonfire remains permanently kindled no matter what

which pretty much renders the entire "risk" of the situation void, so it's like they didn't give it any thought whatsoever

i like it when things are given thought

You lose any soft humanity when you die, Invaders gain humanity even if you have none. It's really just a fantastic system

Verbatim · June 02, 2018, 05:59:06 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 02, 2018, 05:52:24 PM

You lose any soft humanity when you die, Invaders gain humanity even if you have none. It's really just a fantastic system

it's a joke

if you have no humanity, invaders shouldn't get anything—that's how it should work

Dietrich Six · June 02, 2018, 06:01:00 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 02, 2018, 05:59:06 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 02, 2018, 05:52:24 PM
You lose any soft humanity when you die, Invaders gain humanity even if you have none. It's really just a fantastic system
it's a joke

if you have no humanity, invaders shouldn't get anything—that's how it should work

Every human was created from the dark soul. We all have humanity even when hollow.

Verbatim · June 02, 2018, 06:05:58 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 02, 2018, 06:01:00 PM

Every human was created from the dark soul. We all have humanity even when hollow.

that seems pretty counter to the concept of going hollow (or at least what i know of it) but okay

doesn't make the system any less of a joke, and last i checked, humanity is recoverable from your bloodstain, so losing humanity upon death is a non-issue if you're just doing the whole post-kindling suicide thing to avoid invasions, like i already said

Dietrich Six · June 02, 2018, 06:11:33 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 02, 2018, 06:05:58 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 02, 2018, 06:01:00 PM
Every human was created from the dark soul. We all have humanity even when hollow.
that seems pretty counter to the concept of going hollow (or at least what i know of it) but okay

doesn't make the system any less of a joke, and last i checked, humanity is recoverable from your bloodstain, so losing humanity upon death is a non-issue if you're just doing the whole post-kindling suicide thing to avoid invasions, like i already said

Mmmmmm I might be wrong but I think you lose some either way

Verbatim · June 02, 2018, 06:15:19 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 02, 2018, 06:11:33 PM

Mmmmmm I might be wrong but I think you lose some either way

maybe in some other game?

in fact, it's possible to randomly gain one humanity if you die in dark souls 1

not sure if that's still a thing

Dietrich Six · June 02, 2018, 06:36:37 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 02, 2018, 06:15:19 PM

Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 02, 2018, 06:11:33 PM
Mmmmmm I might be wrong but I think you lose some either way
maybe in some other game?

in fact, it's possible to randomly gain one humanity if you die in dark souls 1

not sure if that's still a thing

Hmmmmmmmm, yeah I dunno. Either way invasions are pretty annoying when you're just trying to get through the game. They are honestly one of my favorite parts though, especially if they aren't being scumfucks.

Big Boss · June 02, 2018, 08:51:40 PM

Farmed 30 souvenirs only to find out that you need 10 for the reward

Fun times

Dietrich Six · June 02, 2018, 08:54:42 PM

Quote from: Big Boss™ Remastered on June 02, 2018, 08:51:40 PM

Farmed 30 souvenirs only to find out that you need 10 for the reward

Fun times

Oof. I need to go back to sotfs and bellboy

Big Boss · June 03, 2018, 06:01:36 PM

Ásgeirr · June 04, 2018, 08:44:40 AM

YouTube

Flee · June 04, 2018, 09:07:16 AM

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Flee · June 04, 2018, 09:11:52 AM

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Flee · June 04, 2018, 09:15:49 AM

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challengerX · June 04, 2018, 09:19:25 AM

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Desty · June 04, 2018, 09:58:08 AM

Quote from: challengerX on June 04, 2018, 09:19:25 AM

Crying about invaders is such a reddit thing to do.

Nah, it's a verbatim thing. He doesn't like them because he wants to be special. Literally everyone likes them except for our personal contrarian here. The most reddit thing to do in dark souls is to talk about sunbros or "git gud"

Verbatim · June 04, 2018, 10:24:57 AM

Quote from: Flee on June 04, 2018, 09:11:52 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 02, 2018, 06:15:19 PM
maybe in some other game?

in fact, it's possible to randomly gain one humanity if you die in dark souls 1

not sure if that's still a thing
Pretty sure that was never a thing.

i have video evidence but i'll have to sift through the archives

Verbatim · June 04, 2018, 10:26:26 AM

Quote from: Flee on June 04, 2018, 09:15:49 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on June 02, 2018, 05:59:06 PM
Quote from: Dietrich Six on June 02, 2018, 05:52:24 PM
You lose any soft humanity when you die, Invaders gain humanity even if you have none. It's really just a fantastic system
it's a joke

if you have no humanity, invaders shouldn't get anything—that's how it should work
Invaders can only invade you when you are human. They steal your humanity when they kill you. This makes perfect sense and is why you can't be invaded when hollow. It's all part of the lore.

i addressed and soundly refuted every sentence of this post already

Flee · June 04, 2018, 10:28:08 AM

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Verbatim · June 04, 2018, 10:28:24 AM

Quote from: Desty on June 04, 2018, 09:58:08 AM

Quote from: challengerX on June 04, 2018, 09:19:25 AM
Crying about invaders is such a reddit thing to do.
Nah, it's a verbatim thing. He doesn't like them because he wants to be special. Literally everyone likes them except for our personal contrarian here. The most reddit thing to do in dark souls is to talk about sunbros or "git gud"

is it being contrarian if my reasons for hating them are as thought out and in-depth as they are

plenty of people hate invasions—even in this very thread, you'll notice that both the OP and CMD both agree with me to some extent

Flee · June 04, 2018, 10:36:39 AM

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Verbatim · June 04, 2018, 10:58:21 AM

Quote from: Flee on June 04, 2018, 10:36:39 AM

You didn't though.

i did, and i'll do it again

Quote

"Invaders can only invade you when you're human" is a completely neutral and factual statement akin to "trainers can't catch pokemon owned by another trainer". There's no refuting that.

i can point out its sheer irrelevancy, because it doesn't matter when invaders can and can't evade you—it doesn't make it any less of a cancerous and poorly designed mechanic that doesn't make any sense at all and is utterly toxic to the MP experience

because it can still happen

there's only a couple reasons why you'd want to "risk" getting invaded—if you want to be able to summon white phantoms, which i can only vaguely see the logic behind, and kindling bonfires, and again, i've already explained why this wasn't well thought out in detail

after kindling a bonfire, there is no risk of getting invaded if you're smart, because you can simply find your nearest ledge, jump off of it, and not only will the bonfire still be kindled, but you won't run the risk of getting invaded anymore and you'll even be able to recover all your souls and your humanity when you reach your bloodstain (assuming you weren't dumb enough to try this after already dying once)

having to do that workaround is fucking stupid, though, because it not only means that the developers obviously didn't think that players could just do that, it's also just kind of a ridiculous and unintuitive thing to do in a video game—jumping off a ledge to avoid invasions? if that was something i had to worry about in my playthrough, it would break my immersion every single time

it's such an unbelievably stupid mechanic, it gets dumber the more i ponder it, and that goes for EVERY ASPECT of dark souls MP

Quote

"They steal your humanity when they kill you" is exactly the same. While your soft humanity is retrievable from your bloodstain, you lose your "active" humanity that's making you non-hollow. This is what the invaders claim from your corpse.

sounds like convenient bullshit to me, because you see your character physically hand the humanity over to the bonfire, where it gets burned—you can hand-wave this by just saying it's a nonsense fantasy game with magic, so nothing about this has to make any sense, but considering how grounded the game is in terms of its physics and stuff, relative to other fantasy games, i'm gonna go out on a limb and say i'm perfectly justified in thinking what you just said is bullshit, and i'm not going back on what i said because it's not good enough

Quote

Your "refutation" of it just seems to be based on a misunderstanding of how the mechanic really works as there is no way for you to reclaim the "active" humanity when you're killed by an invader.

yes, because you "spent" it at the bonfire, there's no way to reclaim it

simply put, that means the invader shouldn't be able to claim it either—the only humanity he should be able to steal are the ones physically on your person—and if there isn't any, then he doesn't get any

saying "but it's in the lore" won't make this make any more sense

Quote

You can say you think the lore's dumb and not a sufficient justification for the invasion mechanic, but it's consistent and your personal dislike of it doesn't refute any part of what I said.

but it does, because it means it's silly to continually say "it's part of the lore, it's part of the lore, it's part of the lore," when it's failing to convince me for various reasons that it's a justified mechanic that isn't toxic (and borderline immoral), and that's what the discussion is about

i'm not interested in talking about how consistent the lore is, i'm only here to shit on a bad mechanic

you're welcome to challenge that notion if you think it's a good mechanic, but you're never going to convince me if all you have to say is "muh lore"

if dark souls tells me to kill my parents, and refusing violates the game's precious lore, i guess to you, i have no choice but to kill my parents right, and that would be a good and intelligent game mechanic because it's all in this consistent and beautifully constructed lore

what utter garbage

Deleted · June 04, 2018, 11:25:21 AM

The real problem with invasions is that the PvP itself is just bad and nobody should be subjected to it.

It's especialy bad in this remaster becuase:

-The Anti-Cheat does not actually work against malicious cheats such as instant-cursing weapons
-The Anti-Cheat is exploitable because cheating invaders can seed your world or character with varibles that will get YOU banned or brck your save
-Backstab/hornet ring meta was not fixed
-The game is even more buggy with phantoms in the world than the original was
-Miyazaki gave Invaders estus again
-Upgrade based matchmaking has made the problem with Dark Magic Twinking even worse

Verbatim · June 04, 2018, 11:30:17 AM

Quote from: Chaos Metal Dragon on June 04, 2018, 11:25:21 AM

The real problem with invasions is that the PvP itself is just bad and nobody should be subjected to it.

It's especialy bad in this remaster becuase:

-The Anti-Cheat does not actually work against malicious cheats such as instant-cursing weapons
-The Anti-Cheat is exploitable because cheating invaders can seed your world or character with varibles that will get YOU banned or brck your save
-Backstab/hornet ring meta was not fixed
-The game is even more buggy with phantoms in the world than the original was
-Miyazaki gave Invaders estus again
-Upgrade based matchmaking has made the problem with Dark Magic Twinking even worse

latency issues alone are enough to put a deal-breaking bullet into the entire system honestly