Quote from: FatherlyNick on May 10, 2017, 10:13:30 AMverbatim, you are a bright fellow - but how are you inoronically enjoying these?! Does your mind not see the obvious errors in her statements?I don't know, name a couple.
verbatim, you are a bright fellow - but how are you inoronically enjoying these?! Does your mind not see the obvious errors in her statements?
She misrepresented the Hitman sequence - you are not rewarded for killing the strippers, you are penalised fro doing so.
In watchdogs - the mission she showed is about shutting down a sex trafficking ring, but she presented it like it was a strip club or something.
I'll let this guy speak for the rest.YouTube
Quote from: FatherlyNick on May 12, 2017, 04:54:12 AMShe misrepresented the Hitman sequence - you are not rewarded for killing the strippers, you are penalised fro doing so.I already mentioned this, and I chalk it up to the simple fact that not every point she makes is going to be a home run. I still haven't played the game myself and probably never will, so the subject bores me.QuoteIn watchdogs - the mission she showed is about shutting down a sex trafficking ring, but she presented it like it was a strip club or something.Are you talking about this video? Watch Dogs is another game I haven't played, but it was also only one game (briefly) mentioned in a montage of about 10-15 examples of games with strip clubs, brothels, etc. in them. You're gonna have to refute every single example in order for me not to completely disregard your point, because that's what I'm doing right now.QuoteI'll let this guy speak for the rest.YouTube>ThunderfootGod, I fucking hate this retard.0:16 - Okay, so he starts off the video by claiming that Anita is trying to, quote, "teach people how they interact with other people in the real world." This is false, and his own clip disproves that. What she says is, "When games such as these award players with achievements or trophies for sexual conquest, they're directly reinforcing negative ways of thinking about the dynamics between men and women in our society."Reinforcement of negative ideas does not come anywhere close to tutelage. She never claimed that games are teaching gamers to be sexist. She claims that games exhibit sexist tropes, and thus reinforce sexist ideas, regardless of whether may make anyone sexist.0:40 - He then uses his tenuous strawman as a corollary for his next little gem, sarcastically implying that men are objectified in deathmatch games, because you predominantly kill male characters—and this, in turn, by his interpretation of Anita's logic, somehow encourages violence against men. Again, this is bullshit. The entire fucking point of deathmatch is to kill players, regardless of who or what they are. The reason feminists don't consider this "objectification" is because the masculinity of these male characters is not being exploited, generally speaking. There is no underlying message of "men are objects," whereas games that feature sexualized women and reward players for exploiting them do have an underlying message of "women are just objects." This isn't complicated.1:46 - Lots of sanctimonious rambling about boring shit—yes, pull up all the academic studies you want that suggest that games don't make people sexist all you want. It doesn't matter, because that was never the argument being made. As for Anita's stint with teleseminars, here is my response.3:04 - Phil claims, based on his interpretation of her logic, that if video games make you more sexist (which, they don't, and nobody has ever claimed that they do), and if Anita herself has played thousands of hours of games, then she is, by virtue, "the most sexist of all." This is a prize-winningly stupid interpretation of the following statement by Anita: "Paradoxically, and somewhat ironically, those who most strongly believe that media is just harmless entertainment are also the ones most likely to uncritically internalize harmful media messages. In short, the more you think you cannot be affected, the more likely you are to be affected." What she is saying here is quite simple—if you believe media is just harmless entertainment, you will not hold media up to critical scrutiny, and you are therefore more susceptible to the harm that media can incur. The reason Anita herself isn't "affected" is because she doesn't believe that media is just harmless entertainment. She considers herself a critic, so she holds media to critical scrutiny. Again, this isn't difficult. I can't believe Thunderfoot has a fucking ph.D.4:09 - The rest of the video from this point forward is just boring, unentertaining nonsense born out of this retarded strawman notion that games make people sexist. Once more, they don't, and no such argument has ever been made by Anita. The closest thing she's ever said to that would probably be that games reinforce negative stereotypes of women, which is a fact. How male gamers respond to this is irrelevant. Men tend to be sexist enough on their own, and they don't need games to teach them to be sexist—they pretty much already are. So I'd probably argue that it's not games that make people sexist; men just tend to be sexist by default, and games inladen with sexist tropes are simply made for these sexists.That was an absolutely retarded video and a complete waste of my time.Never link me a Thunderfoot video again.9:00 - Here, Phil attempts to make fun of Anita by implying that she's contradicting herself. She cites Jade, the protagonist from Beyond Good & Evil, as a "warm, compassionate, multi-talented character who has realistic and relatable concerns." Phil then cuts to a moment where Anita describes her mission in the game, which involves aliens and conspiracy, implying that a game with aliens in it cannot have relatable or realistic characters. When they, in fact, can. Fuck you, Phil.
If her point is not to prove the influence of treatment of women in games - what is she trying to do?
Also, I believe she said "Directly reinforcing negative ways of thinking about the dynamics between men and women in our society."So we are meant to understand that all she is doing is saying that games are a realistic representation of our society?
"games reinforce negative stereotypes of women"If you are sexist, do you think having games which reinforce positive stereotypes of women, would convert you? Would it make your sexism more mild?
If she claims that games have no effect, other than just satisfying sexists, would it not be more productive to spend half a million on figuring out the source of sexism?What would changing games achieve?
Does this mean Robin has been objectified? He didn't wear pants and had those pixie slippers for a long damn time.
Quote from: Yang on May 12, 2017, 01:37:50 PMDoes this mean Robin has been objectified? He didn't wear pants and had those pixie slippers for a long damn time. but in general, he doesn't really have any masculine features to exploit, does he?
I steal gameplay from people and get profit for my own gain
She makes her money through donations alone.
Quote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2017, 02:32:19 PMShe makes her money through donations alone.People actually give this loudmouth attention whore cunt money?
But the solution to that is not to force or expect all writers, developers and content creators to only put women in empowered and leading roles, or the only thing you'll achieve is inequality on the other side of the scale.
"Better put the man in charge over a woman because sexism and male power fantasies" is a pretty dumb approach to take, but so is "gotta change my story around or write different characters than in my original vision because I can't have a woman in a support role" is equally stupid.
I fully support empowerment of more diverse characters in games, but you're gonna run into big issues if you push it to the extreme. If having women as just a sidekick is bad when they take your orders (even when it's done in a very positive way like in Bioshock) because it reinforces the negative ways we think about men and women, then you can easily argue that we shouldn't have black people in ghetto settings because it supports the stereotype of blacks being hoodlums, and that the only way you should have blacks in games is when they're all upper class, well spoken and on their best behavior.
>This entire threadYouTube
Quote from: Deci on May 12, 2017, 04:22:01 PM>This entire threadYouTubeSexistpigfuckyou.
Quote from: Verbatim on May 12, 2017, 04:27:46 PMQuote from: Deci on May 12, 2017, 04:22:01 PM>This entire threadYouTubeSexistpigfuckyou.lol
Let's take a look at this official concept art.Not every male body is equipped to match this standard. Halo is sexist
Anita Sarkeesian: The Lady Sidekick - Tropes vs. Women in Video Games
