Quote from: Snake on August 06, 2017, 11:47:54 PMQuote from: Twisted Innards on August 06, 2017, 11:31:51 PMQuote from: Snake on August 06, 2017, 11:07:12 PMgood job refuting meCan't refute people who refuse to change their opinions. You're becoming a fine clone of verbatim.i'll change my opinion when you present reasonable and overwhelming evidenceSuuuuuure
Quote from: Twisted Innards on August 06, 2017, 11:31:51 PMQuote from: Snake on August 06, 2017, 11:07:12 PMgood job refuting meCan't refute people who refuse to change their opinions. You're becoming a fine clone of verbatim.i'll change my opinion when you present reasonable and overwhelming evidence
Quote from: Snake on August 06, 2017, 11:07:12 PMgood job refuting meCan't refute people who refuse to change their opinions. You're becoming a fine clone of verbatim.
good job refuting me
Quote from: Twisted Innards on August 06, 2017, 11:59:33 PMQuote from: Snake on August 06, 2017, 11:47:54 PMQuote from: Twisted Innards on August 06, 2017, 11:31:51 PMQuote from: Snake on August 06, 2017, 11:07:12 PMgood job refuting meCan't refute people who refuse to change their opinions. You're becoming a fine clone of verbatim.i'll change my opinion when you present reasonable and overwhelming evidenceSuuuuuureit's happened plenty of timesi can provide eye witness accounts
Quote from: Snake on August 07, 2017, 12:00:39 AMQuote from: Twisted Innards on August 06, 2017, 11:59:33 PMQuote from: Snake on August 06, 2017, 11:47:54 PMQuote from: Twisted Innards on August 06, 2017, 11:31:51 PMQuote from: Snake on August 06, 2017, 11:07:12 PMgood job refuting meCan't refute people who refuse to change their opinions. You're becoming a fine clone of verbatim.i'll change my opinion when you present reasonable and overwhelming evidenceSuuuuuureit's happened plenty of timesi can provide eye witness accountsWill you?
Quote from: Twisted Innards on August 07, 2017, 12:02:56 AMQuote from: Snake on August 07, 2017, 12:00:39 AMQuote from: Twisted Innards on August 06, 2017, 11:59:33 PMQuote from: Snake on August 06, 2017, 11:47:54 PMQuote from: Twisted Innards on August 06, 2017, 11:31:51 PMQuote from: Snake on August 06, 2017, 11:07:12 PMgood job refuting meCan't refute people who refuse to change their opinions. You're becoming a fine clone of verbatim.i'll change my opinion when you present reasonable and overwhelming evidenceSuuuuuureit's happened plenty of timesi can provide eye witness accountsWill you?my stance in this threadhttp://sep7agon.net/the-flood/should-trump-be-allowed-to-resignQuote from: TBlocks on August 03, 2017, 03:41:22 PMconfirm?
I'm not seeing the contradiction, he's a joke character that fans of the series enjoyed seeing, fleshing him out in the final chapter isn't insulting in the slightest.
To be fair it is a bit of a misstep but it adds a lot to his involvement in the original games.
I was also under the assumption that Maryl was attracted to that bumbling side of him.
You don't marry someone who saves your life once.
They were on a team for a long time previous, I'm sure one instance wasn't enough to change her perception of him.
hence the insult
Bad dialogue is bad dialogue, translation problems included. Doesn't take away from the games imo, but that's what mgs has always been about for me. It's basically an over the top anime that you play.
Raiden having a kid is the one thing that should be confusing about this whole scenario. He was raised as a child to be an unthinking, unfeeling soldier. When he said he wanted to pursue his own path I took it more as he was done fighting for others and wanted to fight for his own cause, like his idols. He's no longer a soldier following orders he doesn't believe in, he found something he wanted to fight for.
Quote from: Twisted Innards on August 06, 2017, 11:58:47 PMI'm not seeing the contradiction, he's a joke character that fans of the series enjoyed seeing, fleshing him out in the final chapter isn't insulting in the slightest.No. Fleshing out a gag character is insulting because he's not meant to be taken seriously. And then it's insulting to expect someone in-universe to be just okay with that, and marry them.QuoteTo be fair it is a bit of a misstep but it adds a lot to his involvement in the original games.howQuoteI was also under the assumption that Maryl was attracted to that bumbling side of him.i don't know what lead you to that conclusion, because she doesn't nothing to point to that in any scene prior to the shoot out.QuoteYou don't marry someone who saves your life once.hence the insultQuoteThey were on a team for a long time previous, I'm sure one instance wasn't enough to change her perception of him.Quotehence the insultQuoteBad dialogue is bad dialogue, translation problems included. Doesn't take away from the games imo, but that's what mgs has always been about for me. It's basically an over the top anime that you play.i'm saying if that's your justification for bad dialogue, i think it's fair to be a little less crticial of it. aside from a few other instance of genuinely bad dialogue, the games are just fine. QuoteRaiden having a kid is the one thing that should be confusing about this whole scenario. He was raised as a child to be an unthinking, unfeeling soldier. When he said he wanted to pursue his own path I took it more as he was done fighting for others and wanted to fight for his own cause, like his idols. He's no longer a soldier following orders he doesn't believe in, he found something he wanted to fight for.i don't think you're supposed to take it that wayi think you're expected to think he went off with the real rose to start a family
Involvement may have been the wrong word, it explains a lot more about his character and why he behaved the way he did. Knowing Hideo this was his plan from the start. It's more of an "aha" moment than anything else, which again doesn't break his character from being the bumbling idiot.
I'm thinking you might want to replay 4 and watch his interactions with Maryl. She's the epitome of tsundere the entire time. She obviously cares for him and it's not the one instance he saves her that changes all that.
The story for mgs has always been outrageous and at times poorly written. Be it translation issues or Hideo's ridiculous concepts. To say otherwise is just dishonest. Serviceable doesn't equal good, but again it doesn't negatively impact the games in my opinion. If anything it's part of the charm.
Therein lies the ambiguity. He does both apparently, but it was always harder for me to accept him becoming a family man as opposed to fighting for his own cause.
Quote from: Twisted Innards on August 07, 2017, 12:46:41 AMInvolvement may have been the wrong word, it explains a lot more about his character and why he behaved the way he did. Knowing Hideo this was his plan from the start. It's more of an "aha" moment than anything else, which again doesn't break his character from being the bumbling idiot.what i'm saying is that while yes, he does "explain" it, he didn't need to. johnny was a gag character that didn't need to be taken seriously.you give kojima WAY too much credit if you think he planned this since 1998seriously man you're just scraping the bottom of the barrel with these "rebuttals"i know you're smarter than thisrightQuoteI'm thinking you might want to replay 4 and watch his interactions with Maryl. She's the epitome of tsundere the entire time. She obviously cares for him and it's not the one instance he saves her that changes all that.sounds more like confirmation bias to me than anything else. there's no such thing as subtelty with metal gear characters. QuoteThe story for mgs has always been outrageous and at times poorly written. Be it translation issues or Hideo's ridiculous concepts. To say otherwise is just dishonest. Serviceable doesn't equal good, but again it doesn't negatively impact the games in my opinion. If anything it's part of the charm.writing =/= dialoguewriting encompasses everything -- from dialogue, to plot, to foreshadowing -- everythingwe were strictly talking about dialoguebut the writing is solid in 1 2 and 3. the dialogue is serviceable (not great but not bad) in 1 and 2. 3 is much better, to the point of "good". 4 is bad. peace walker is good. mgsv is great.QuoteTherein lies the ambiguity. He does both apparently, but it was always harder for me to accept him becoming a family man as opposed to fighting for his own cause.dude you're just pulling shit out of your ass at this pointthe ambiguity of mgs2's ending did not stem from whether or not raiden started a family jesus christgive your head a shake what the hell
Quote from: Luciana on August 06, 2017, 11:27:33 PMI have to go to bed and i'll reply tomorrow, but Snake seriously take a chill pill on your arguing. Telling me to kill myself over something you disagree with me on is way too childish.it's more fun this way
I have to go to bed and i'll reply tomorrow, but Snake seriously take a chill pill on your arguing. Telling me to kill myself over something you disagree with me on is way too childish.
that still doesn't make the story bad, it makes its execution bad
as for boss fights, they aren't really here, and that's fine. if you think a lack of boss fights somehow makes a game bad, you need to kill yourself.
helicopter times are annoying, but they don't somehow detract from the game when you're actually in control
you sound like those people that try to argue halo 4's soundtrack is bad because it doesn't fit their subjective definition of halo's """sound"""
Quote from: Snake on August 06, 2017, 11:49:26 PMQuote from: Luciana on August 06, 2017, 11:27:33 PMI have to go to bed and i'll reply tomorrow, but Snake seriously take a chill pill on your arguing. Telling me to kill myself over something you disagree with me on is way too childish.it's more fun this waymakes you come off a bit autistic that you can't freak out over disagreements for a franchise you enjoy
The fact that you think expanding upon a "gag" character is an insult is a bit ridiculous in my opinion. Plenty of joke characters get their moment to shine in other media, not sure why this is such a big issue tbh.
I apologize, the dialogue has been poorly written and over the top in all the metal gear solid games. From the deadpan delivery of snake's lines to the ridiculous over acted lines of the enemies and even raiden's bitchy whiny delivery. I'm not sure you can call any of them good. Serviceable at best, campy and hilarious for the most part. Mgs4 is no different, I don't understand your issue with it if the others are fine. And I'll be fucked if you actually think it was good in five. I'm sure I don't need to remind you of the fiddles and whooooooo plays them.
The entire story of mgs2 is ambiguous, you literally know nothing at the end of it and it's been thoroughly discussed and theorized about what actually happens. The ambiguity I was referring to is what exactly Raiden intends on doing. You thought he would give up war, I thought he was done following orders.
Also you should probably calm down with the intelligence remarks, it reeks of insecurity.
Eh, idk dude. The entire thing from the main baddie, to Metal Gear for whatever reason, to Big Boss not really being Big Boss and he's actually a better person and it's some retarded metaphor or whatever, is all just terrible. The characters are also just boooooring as hell minus like two people. Troy Baker managed to get the most boring Ocelot ever.
Not a game bad, just takes away from what Metal Gear is given how the entire series has managed to have some memorable boss fight in one game or another, even if the execution wasn't always there.
Yeah but they also take away from the overall product because you're wasting so much damn time in the thing. It's atrocious. And the fact the credits roll that spoil whos going to be in that story mission.
Maybe it was a mistake saying it was gameplay, but from an overall package, it's just such a terrible decision to do and you waste so much time with it. It's like that same animation in a game that looks cool at first, but the fact you have to do it so frequently, it gets horrible and time consuming.
I could go on about how Halo 4 failed as a Halo game, from a story standpoint, all the way to 343 fucking up the aesthetic of it.
i'm not freaking out, i just enjoy berrating you
Quote from: Snake on August 07, 2017, 10:56:15 AMi'm not freaking out, i just enjoy berrating you
you have the most minute complaints about the game
breath of the wild didn't have great boss fights either. i'm still going to argue it's the best LoZ game, ever.
if that's your takeaway you completely missed the point of what i was getting atpeople don't like halo 4's soundtrack (specifically the soundtrack) because it didn't remind them of marty's work, and lacked the arbitrary """halo feel""" they wanted. it's just nonsense.
Talk to Verb
wind waker is the best
Quote from: Snake on August 07, 2017, 11:09:13 AMbreath of the wild didn't have great boss fights either. i'm still going to argue it's the best LoZ game, ever.wind waker is the best
Quote from: Luciana on August 07, 2017, 11:10:34 AMQuote from: Snake on August 07, 2017, 10:56:15 AMi'm not freaking out, i just enjoy berrating youheh
botw is amazing, but there are too many aspects that could be improved for it to be the best imoWW is as close to perfection zelda has ever gottennot to steer this thread in that wind direction
Quote from: Snake on August 07, 2017, 11:12:03 AMQuote from: Luciana on August 07, 2017, 11:10:34 AMQuote from: Snake on August 07, 2017, 10:56:15 AMi'm not freaking out, i just enjoy berrating youhehberate me more, daddy
Quote from: Twisted Innards on August 07, 2017, 06:28:58 AMThe fact that you think expanding upon a "gag" character is an insult is a bit ridiculous in my opinion. Plenty of joke characters get their moment to shine in other media, not sure why this is such a big issue tbh.gag character expansion isn't inherently a bad thing but the fact that we're expected to suddenly take him seriously is what's insultingplease starting comprehending what i'm sayingQuoteI apologize, the dialogue has been poorly written and over the top in all the metal gear solid games. From the deadpan delivery of snake's lines to the ridiculous over acted lines of the enemies and even raiden's bitchy whiny delivery. I'm not sure you can call any of them good. Serviceable at best, campy and hilarious for the most part. Mgs4 is no different, I don't understand your issue with it if the others are fine. And I'll be fucked if you actually think it was good in five. I'm sure I don't need to remind you of the fiddles and whooooooo plays them.i just think you're wrong. it's fine in 1 and 2, good in 3, good in peace walker, and great in five. all of them have a few instances of bad lines but that's it. delivery =/= bad dialogueQuoteThe entire story of mgs2 is ambiguous, you literally know nothing at the end of it and it's been thoroughly discussed and theorized about what actually happens. The ambiguity I was referring to is what exactly Raiden intends on doing. You thought he would give up war, I thought he was done following orders.you specifically implied the ambiguity stemmed from raiden's family life after the gameQuoteAlso you should probably calm down with the intelligence remarks, it reeks of insecurity.i've had to reexplain extremely basic shit to you several times over the course of the threadi don't really care what it "reeks" of, i'm just tired of doing it
What is this thread? MGS was never good anyway.
Quote from: Yang Xiao Long on August 08, 2017, 05:40:22 PMWhat is this thread? MGS was never good anyway.What's that?Oh it's the sound of WRONG
"In Defense of MGS4."
