"In Defense of MGS4."

Elai · July 30, 2017, 10:18:58 PM

YouTube

Very interesting video. I think it paints a slightly more optimistic picture than the reality, but I can say I didn't think about the game's strengths nearly enough. He brings up some great points.

Elai · July 30, 2017, 10:22:26 PM

The one point I really like is how he brings up that, for what little gameplay MGS4 has, it's as gamey as games can get. No slow walking sections or leashes. Lightning-fast animations that service gameplay rather than realism. More features and abilities than you'll ever use that incentivise screwing around.

Elai · July 30, 2017, 10:24:36 PM

Quote from: Luciana on July 30, 2017, 02:26:34 AM

Verbatim · July 30, 2017, 10:27:21 PM

Quote from: Snake on July 30, 2017, 10:24:36 PM

Quote from: Luciana on July 30, 2017, 02:26:34 AM

She doesn't check her notifications, but I'll let her know about this.

Deleted · July 30, 2017, 11:53:31 PM

I actually watched that same vid not too long ago. It made me want to go play Metal Gear already.

Elai · July 31, 2017, 12:59:03 AM

Quote from: Chaos Metal Dragon on July 30, 2017, 11:53:31 PM

I actually watched that same vid not too long ago. It made me want to go play Metal Gear already.

He uploaded it today, how long ago did you watch it?

R o c k e t · July 31, 2017, 01:40:03 AM

Quote from: Snake on July 31, 2017, 12:59:03 AM

Quote from: Chaos Metal Dragon on July 30, 2017, 11:53:31 PM
I actually watched that same vid not too long ago. It made me want to go play Metal Gear already.

He uploaded it today, how long ago did you watch it?

today :^)

Luciana · July 31, 2017, 01:56:55 AM

Worry not, for anything with MGS in the title I shall check. I'll watch the vid soon.

One thing I will say I like is the game did the thing where cutscenes were actually cutscenes instead of you being forced to slow walk as characters have a dialogue dump. There was a video about that shitty trend in gaming and how it really kinda started with Gears of War.

Elai · July 31, 2017, 02:04:50 AM

Quote from: Luciana on July 31, 2017, 01:56:55 AM

Worry not, for anything with MGS in the title I shall check. I'll watch the vid soon.

One thing I will say I like is the game did the thing where cutscenes were actually cutscenes instead of you being forced to slow walk as characters have a dialogue dump. There was a video about that shitty trend in gaming and how it really kinda started with Gears of War.

Yeah, he touches on that in the video. I hadn't really thought about it before, but in retrospect, it's a pretty solid point. It's a reverse of what we usually see -- applying contemporary graphical standards to games from the past, for example. But we're not doing that here. We're applying modern trends and crediting games for... not using them.

I think the two of us have pretty much been on the same page (especially after you discovered matthewmatosis, heh) regarding MGS4, hence the shoutout. I'm more interested in your perspective because of that.

Luciana · July 31, 2017, 02:22:48 AM

Just watched it, and honestly, it made me appreciate the game a lot more and remember why I loved playing through it the first time. I kinda hated it in retrospect but when put side to side with MGS 5 on a lot of details, MGS 4 just beats it in so many ways because it is true to the series and it remembers what made it great. Where as MGS 5 kinda just does... everything different.

It also hit on the point that made me feel as old as Snake, in that when you visit Shadow Moses again you realize just how much time has passed in the game, just like it has in real life. Where as we were young kids in elementary school playing MGS 1, we're now grown men, older, just like the things we're seeing before it. And it just hits so well on how old the environment is, drawing direct lines with how old the series has gotten and that maybe it really should finally rest once and for all, much like Snake. I think Kojima wanted his series to end before it got to a point everyone went "yeah it's just not good anymore", and sadly he never really got to do that due to money demands, and we see just how aged and out of ideas it is with MGS V. Don't get me wrong, MGS V's gameplay is the best in the series, but it really says something when a series of this caliber, a pillar of storytelling in the entire video game franchise, has a weaker story than even that of Metal Gear Revengeance.

I love MGS, and I'll always look back fondly on it, even if MGS V did leave a bad taste in my mouth, as I'm sure it did with almost everyone who played it, be it the lack of story or the things happening outside of the game with Kojima/Konami. That being said, I know I can always pick the games back up and sit back and enjoy the story, voice acting, and cutscenes, just as much as I did the first time around. In fact I might even appreciate them more with time.

I don't think a game series can ever quite do what MGS did

Big Boss · July 31, 2017, 04:12:54 AM

I'll watch this in work

Big Boss · July 31, 2017, 07:23:34 AM

Fuck that was moving

Deleted · July 31, 2017, 09:44:34 AM

Quote from: Luciana on July 31, 2017, 01:56:55 AM

Worry not, for anything with MGS in the title I shall check. I'll watch the vid soon.

One thing I will say I like is the game did the thing where cutscenes were actually cutscenes instead of you being forced to slow walk as characters have a dialogue dump. There was a video about that shitty trend in gaming and how it really kinda started with Gears of War.

This same guy actually has a pretty good video on that exact thing.
I've actually been subbed to him ever since he tore Other M a new arsehole.

Dietrich Six · August 02, 2017, 01:40:15 PM

I never got the hate for mgs4, it was metal gear at its most outrageous.

Elai · August 02, 2017, 02:30:47 PM

Quote from: Twisted Innards on August 02, 2017, 01:40:15 PM

I never got the hate for mgs4, it was metal gear at its most outrageous.

It's story lacked the subtelty and character consistency the previous games had. as well as being pretty insulting to what had already been established. on top of that, there wasn't too much game to be played beyond the first 2 acts, and what's there beyond act 2 isn't very fun.

Dietrich Six · August 02, 2017, 02:37:00 PM

Quote from: Snake on August 02, 2017, 02:30:47 PM

Quote from: Twisted Innards on August 02, 2017, 01:40:15 PM
I never got the hate for mgs4, it was metal gear at its most outrageous.

It's story lacked the subtelty and character consistency the previous games had. as well as being pretty insulting to what had already been established. on top of that, there wasn't too much game to be played beyond the first 2 acts, and what's there beyond act 2 isn't very fun.

Really the only insulting thing was that fucking bike chase. Mgs has always had cheese, and I really don't understand why people were insulted by it.

As for the subtlety and character consistency, only Maryl(?) really changed. They didn't really treat her character with the respect I felt she deserved but I was hoping she'd get with snake in the end.

Old snake makes sense and I thought it was a fitting end to his story, especially with how it plays out with ocelot.

Granted it's been a few years since I've played it, but I fucking loved it when it released.

Elai · August 02, 2017, 02:45:40 PM

Quote from: Twisted Innards on August 02, 2017, 02:37:00 PM

Really the only insulting thing was that fucking bike chase.

That wasn't insulting at all. It was shitty, but it wasn't insulting.

Quote

Mgs has always had cheese, and I really don't understand why people were insulted by it.

It's always been campy, but it was done better in previous games. And I don't think anyone was insulted too much by the "cheese."

Quote

As for the subtlety and character consistency, only Maryl(?) really changed. They didn't really treat her character with the respect I felt she deserved but I was hoping she'd get with snake in the end.

- Raiden
- Maryl
- Zero
- Paramedic
- Johnny
- Eva

The insulting things are the over-dramatic anime-y dialogue, complete character personality changes (see above), and total lack of respect for what MGS2 and 3 established.

Big Boss · August 02, 2017, 03:08:42 PM

Tbf though sometimes I do enjoy fanservice and MGS4 sure did deliver

Dietrich Six · August 02, 2017, 06:42:18 PM

Quote from: Snake on August 02, 2017, 02:45:40 PM

Quote from: Twisted Innards on August 02, 2017, 02:37:00 PM
Really the only insulting thing was that fucking bike chase.

That wasn't insulting at all. It was shitty, but it wasn't insulting.

Quote
Mgs has always had cheese, and I really don't understand why people were insulted by it.

It's always been campy, but it was done better in previous games. And I don't think anyone was insulted too much by the "cheese."

Quote
As for the subtlety and character consistency, only Maryl(?) really changed. They didn't really treat her character with the respect I felt she deserved but I was hoping she'd get with snake in the end.

- Raiden
- Maryl
- Zero
- Paramedic
- Johnny
- Eva

The insulting things are the over-dramatic anime-y dialogue, complete character personality changes (see above), and total lack of respect for what MGS2 and 3 established.

Did you just throw Johnny in there. The guy who basically just shit the whole series?

And the dialogue has always been anime-y. Raiden turning into a cyborg was weird but but not out of character, plus it was fucking sick.

Elai · August 02, 2017, 07:01:10 PM

Quote from: Twisted Innards on August 02, 2017, 06:42:18 PM

Did you just throw Johnny in there. The guy who basically just shit the whole series?

Yeah, because we're supposed to start taking him seriously all of a sudden? It's insulting that they expect that.

Quote

And the dialogue has always been anime-y. Raiden turning into a cyborg was weird but but not out of character, plus it was fucking sick.

1. The dialogue was never this bad.
2. Him being in the game at all is my problem. It negates the end of MGS2.

MGS4 has a lot of strengths but you aren't bringing up any of them.

True Turquoise · August 03, 2017, 05:25:25 PM

This is the only one I played for myself, I liked it.

Didnt feel like it wasted my time, that fight at the end was pretty damn good.

Gameplay was smooth enough, felt really good to play

snurch · August 04, 2017, 01:26:47 PM

highly polished game

Elai · August 04, 2017, 01:51:25 PM

Quote from: Pepsi on August 04, 2017, 01:26:47 PM

highly polished game

Yeah but so is every Metal Gear directed by Kojima.

Luciana · August 06, 2017, 07:07:26 PM

Quote from: Snake on August 04, 2017, 01:51:25 PM

Quote from: Pepsi on August 04, 2017, 01:26:47 PM
highly polished game

Yeah but so is every Metal Gear directed by Kojima.

MGS V is not that polished in terms of story and gameplay decisions :^)

Luciana · August 06, 2017, 07:08:03 PM

I never noticed how bad the frames can get for MGS 4

Verbatim · August 06, 2017, 07:10:58 PM

The hatred around this game has always seemed like completely irrational hysteria to me.

As for MGSV, I can actually understand from a story standpoint why the game gets shit on. MGS4? No.

Verbatim · August 06, 2017, 07:13:25 PM

Disclaimer, I didn't watch the video because I can't. I don't watch videos about games I haven't played.

Elai · August 06, 2017, 07:14:05 PM

Quote from: Luciana on August 06, 2017, 07:07:26 PM

Quote from: Snake on August 04, 2017, 01:51:25 PM
Quote from: Pepsi on August 04, 2017, 01:26:47 PM
highly polished game

Yeah but so is every Metal Gear directed by Kojima.
MGS V is not that polished in terms of story and gameplay decisions :^)

"gameplay decisions"

mgsv is an extremely polished game

Elai · August 06, 2017, 07:14:24 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on August 06, 2017, 07:10:58 PM

The hatred around this game has always seemed like completely irrational hysteria to me.

As for MGSV, I can actually understand from a story standpoint why the game gets shit on. MGS4? No.

how much time do you have

Verbatim · August 06, 2017, 07:17:51 PM

Quote from: Snake on August 06, 2017, 07:14:24 PM

how much time do you have

A technically indefinite amount, as you could just make an arbitrarily long post, and I could just read it at any point.