Cameron is crashing the UK with no survivors.

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on June 26, 2016, 07:13:10 PM

The Brexit movement came from extreme political rhetoric.

No it didn't.

Where the fuck are you getting this from? Extremist parties in Britain are surprisingly unsuccessful, and have been since WWII. No, UKIP is not an extremist party.

Rhetoric, not party.

Question: leading up to the vote, what were the reasons why the Leavers said it was needed?

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on June 27, 2016, 08:46:53 AM

Question: leading up to the vote, what were the reasons why the Leavers said it was needed?

Sovereignty is the number one issue why people (across parties) voted Leave, with immigration being second (again, across parties). And this was broadly reflected in Vote Leave, especially by Michael Gove.

The rhetoric surrounding the campaign has been defined by both populism and fear-mongering; but extremism? No. Not even from Nigel Farage because, as I said, extremism is distinctly unpopular here.

I never said extemist. I said extreme. Now you said immigration. I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and guess it was Middle Eastern immigrants that were shown and talked about?

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on June 27, 2016, 10:12:07 AM

I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and guess it was Middle Eastern immigrants that were shown and talked about?

UKIP capitalised on the refugee crisis somewhat.

But no. Why would Middle Eastern immigration be an issue in a vote on the European Union, except for the ignorant voters who don't pay attention to anything and sit their grumbling.

So, ignorant people didn't vote?

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on June 27, 2016, 11:36:32 AM

Quote from: Meta Cognition on June 27, 2016, 10:22:23 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on June 27, 2016, 10:12:07 AM

I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and guess it was Middle Eastern immigrants that were shown and talked about?

UKIP capitalised on the refugee crisis somewhat.

But no. Why would Middle Eastern immigration be an issue in a vote on the European Union, except for the ignorant voters who don't pay attention to anything and sit their grumbling.

So, ignorant people didn't vote?

Quote

except for the ignorant voters who don't pay attention to anything and sit their grumbling.

Are you reading what I'm writing?

You missed my point. The rhetoric was aimed at the ignorant. Informed people had legitimate reasons on both sides. The Leave party used incendiary language to get a result they wanted. A referendum to leave the EU. that's all I am saying here.

There's an example here in the US in Sanders and Trump. Both are doing the same here. "It's not your fault Mr/Ms Voter, that guy *points at immigrant or rich person* stole your future. I promise if you give me power, I will make it all right again."

Now the UK, if it stays this course, will have some difficult decisions to make to preserve stability. The constituent countries may vote to leave, the economy may be shaken from article 50, and the fallout could effect close trading partners (ie, the USA)

I'm saying that this wasn't a weighed decision for many. It was a gut call made by the threats presented by extreme rhetoric.

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on June 27, 2016, 02:56:10 PM

The rhetoric was aimed at the ignorant. Informed people had legitimate reasons on both sides. The Leave party used incendiary language to get a result they wanted. A referendum to leave the EU. that's all I am saying here.

Well I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that, but I still take umbrage at your characterisation that the rhetoric was "extreme". It was certainly incendiary, on both sides, because of how divisive the issue is.

But rhetoric aimed at the ignorant is par the course for pretty much any electoral event in any democracy.

While incendiary rhetoric has always played a large part of politics, the degree to which it was taken this year is extreme. I'm not sure what happened, but this year several countries has seen a rise in populism and the scapegoating that goes with it. The media and politicians need to turn it down a few notches. There has been violence and it will get worse if this continues.

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on June 27, 2016, 03:37:24 PM

I'm not sure what happened

One guy asked a question on this programme we have here that was very telling.

He said something to the effect of: "The peasants have revolted against the aristocracy. After decades of the establishment ignoring ordinary people, how does it feel to be punched in the nose?"

Problem I have is that they are revolting but no one wants to accept the issues and want to blame someone else. The failure of the economy is the immigrants fault.

The banks are evil and London is greedy. When in reality the issue are quite different. Politics over governance has become the game.

People are willing to do anything to win as well as lie and stoke the fires not knowing that they may end up sitting on a throne of ashes and the kingdom they were aiming for not in sight.

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