Quote from: Verbatim on January 11, 2015, 07:57:45 AMQuote from: challengerX on January 11, 2015, 07:55:18 AMActually their brains could be incredibly different from ours. Not to mention their environment, culture, society. Even if they were humanoids with similar brains they'd be extremely different. The argument being made is that they'd be just as intelligent as us. If the most intelligent person you could ever think of is not a vegan, you're doing it wrong.Intelligence and veganism aren't exclusive to each other.Your dietry choice is not an indication of intelligence at all.
Quote from: challengerX on January 11, 2015, 07:55:18 AMActually their brains could be incredibly different from ours. Not to mention their environment, culture, society. Even if they were humanoids with similar brains they'd be extremely different. The argument being made is that they'd be just as intelligent as us. If the most intelligent person you could ever think of is not a vegan, you're doing it wrong.
Actually their brains could be incredibly different from ours. Not to mention their environment, culture, society. Even if they were humanoids with similar brains they'd be extremely different.
I don't support making animals suffer.
Quote from: Verbatim on January 11, 2015, 08:03:01 AMNo.yes
No.
So what about pain? Do plants feel? Pollan says they do respond to anesthetics. "You can put a plant out with a human anesthetic. ... And not only that, plants produce their own compounds that are anesthetic to us." But scientists are reluctant to go as far as to say they are responding to pain.
Quote from: Numb Digger on January 11, 2015, 08:03:11 AMI don't support making animals suffer.Oxymoron.
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on January 11, 2015, 08:04:29 AMQuote from: Verbatim on January 11, 2015, 08:03:01 AMNo.yesQuoteSo what about pain? Do plants feel? Pollan says they do respond to anesthetics. "You can put a plant out with a human anesthetic. ... And not only that, plants produce their own compounds that are anesthetic to us." But scientists are reluctant to go as far as to say they are responding to pain.Das, come on. You're better than this.
And as I said, there are ways to make their deaths painless and suffering-free.
There only reluctant because saying plants feel pain as a scientist is like saying you saw an alien mothership as a pilot. The feds will blacklist you from employment in the field.
Quote from: Verbatim on January 11, 2015, 05:24:30 AMQuote from: aTALLmidget on January 11, 2015, 05:22:30 AMAnd yet I'm dead serious. I'd rather kill the animal myself. I'm going to get a hunting license as soon as possible and feast on my kills. I'd kill a cow no different than killing a deer.Then I hope you get eaten. I hope a tiger fucking just mauls you to death and eats you, and see how you like it.I mean, what else can I say? I hope you get what you impose on other sentient beings.I'll kill them too. These animals are here for us to eat and us being at the top of the food chain proves just that. Also LOL there are no tigers around to just maul me randomly. Nice try, though. If the most you can do is hope some stupid, brainless animal tries to kill me, that's petty and shows your weak character.
Quote from: aTALLmidget on January 11, 2015, 05:22:30 AMAnd yet I'm dead serious. I'd rather kill the animal myself. I'm going to get a hunting license as soon as possible and feast on my kills. I'd kill a cow no different than killing a deer.Then I hope you get eaten. I hope a tiger fucking just mauls you to death and eats you, and see how you like it.I mean, what else can I say? I hope you get what you impose on other sentient beings.
And yet I'm dead serious. I'd rather kill the animal myself. I'm going to get a hunting license as soon as possible and feast on my kills. I'd kill a cow no different than killing a deer.
Yes, this too. Dietary choice has ABSOLUTELY NO relation to intelligence. Look at the extreme vegans and vegetarians, the eco-terrorists and the like.
Quote from: Numb Digger on January 11, 2015, 08:08:03 AMAnd as I said, there are ways to make their deaths painless and suffering-free. You still don't have the right to kill them at all. If cows could say, "Yes, you may eat me," I'd be okay with you killing and eating that particular cow. If it meant and understood what it was saying.
Yes, but there is nothing that can really be done to solve this problem entirely. The majority of people (including me) will never give up meat.We can, however, treat the problem by making sure they don't suffer when they die.
Lol verbatim doesn't even know what an addiction is
Oh, and I'm not addicted to meat, either. If I was in a situation where I was deprived of meat with no reliable way to get it, I would simply seek alternatives like fruit, nuts and vegetables.
Quote from: Numb Digger on January 11, 2015, 08:04:54 AMYes, this too. Dietary choice has ABSOLUTELY NO relation to intelligence. Look at the extreme vegans and vegetarians, the eco-terrorists and the like.I'm just saying, obviously, if you're a vegan, you're basically making the statement that "killing sentient creatures is always wrong unless you have express permission to do so."Sounds like an intelligent proposition to me.
Quote from: Tyger on January 11, 2015, 08:18:02 AMLol verbatim doesn't even know what an addiction ishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_dependencedurrrr
morals and intelligence aren't the same thing
Quote from: Numb Digger on January 11, 2015, 08:19:22 AMOh, and I'm not addicted to meat, either. If I was in a situation where I was deprived of meat with no reliable way to get it, I would simply seek alternatives like fruit, nuts and vegetables.You would crave it, though. You would hunger for it. If even for a fleeting moment. Don't even try to deny it.
"despite adverse consequences""interferes with ordinary life responsibilities"Guys I can't go to work today I'm going through meat withdraw
Yeah, I would want some for sure, but I wouldn't go into a withdrawal or something.
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on January 11, 2015, 08:11:19 AMThere only reluctant because saying plants feel pain as a scientist is like saying you saw an alien mothership as a pilot. The feds will blacklist you from employment in the field.That sounds pretty bogus to me, sorry.
Quote from: BritishLemön on January 11, 2015, 08:21:49 AMmorals and intelligence aren't the same thingI obviously disagree. If you're not "moral", then no, you're not intelligent. Intelligence begets a sense "morality".
Quote from: Numb Digger on January 11, 2015, 08:27:49 AMYeah, I would want some for sure, but I wouldn't go into a withdrawal or something.Because you're taking the word "addiction" way too fucking literally. Which is annoying and pedantic as fuck.
Quote from: Numb Digger on January 11, 2015, 08:27:49 AM annoying and pedantic as fuck.
annoying and pedantic as fuck.
Worst thing you've done to an animal?
