Whose deaths (outside of friends and family) will affect you the most?

Big Boss | Mythic Card Master
 
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Jacob Potila was actually a Jacob Flotilla of lies.- WarTurkey
I'd probably feel down if Ringo Starr went. I was obsessed with Thomas the Tank Engine.
why are you so lame😂😂😂

Yeah, loving a show aimed at kids, while being a kid myself is such an oddity right? Fuck!


FatherlyNick - fuck putin | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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If you know, you know.
Any YouTuber I watch regularly.


Big Boss | Mythic Card Master
 
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Jacob Potila was actually a Jacob Flotilla of lies.- WarTurkey
I'm not sure if I'd personally be sad, but Stan Lee passing would be... weird. Like, he's just always been around. That's going to be hell of a downer day on the internet.


 
 
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Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
From what I can tell, the contents of the C16 bill seem to have been exaggerated and mischaracterized by many – Peterson included. There’s numerous articles and expert opinions that have covered this in depth. The effects of the law have been discussed in detail by professors of law and the Canadian Bar Association. Reading the text of the law itself and the accompanying explanatory notes should help clear much of that up.

The law changes two things. One, that gender identity is now explicitly recognized in the criminal code for sentencing and the crimes of advocating genocide and the willful promotion / public incitement of hatred. Using the wrong pronoun does not fall under this by any stretch of the imagination. Two, it adds gender expression to the Canadian Human Rights Code. This is nothing new and has been the case where Peterson lives for 5 years already. It relates to discrimination in certain areas such as employment and housing, meaning that you cannot do things like deny people jobs or rent based solely on the fact that they’re transgender. As the Canadian Department of Justice has already confirmed, this will not provide transgenders with special rights. There’s several other articles out there that include interviews with legal experts and overviews of Canadian court cases / official statements on this topic, but I’ll just give you a few more if you want to go through them. Warning, the last one is far too personally negative when it comes to Peterson but gives a very lengthy (6000 words) and detailed overview of the law and what it entails.

So yeah, in my opinion many blanket statements do amount to fearmongering and give the impression that people will face criminal charges for using the wrong pronouns. Peterson himself has admitted he doesn’t actually know the legal side of things very well, yet he still presents himself as an expert talking at length about farfetched and very questionable interpretations of the law that has actually already been applied in most Canadian regions for years without any of the concerns turning out to be true. In my opinion, the "SJW's are going after free speech and you're going to be in trouble for not catering to gender whims" narrative seems very unsubstantiated here.

As for the Damore memo, there are again very extensive factchecks that present alternative evidence, research and studies that challenge or add nuance to his claims. This 40 page overview by a behavioral science and evolutionary biology PhD candidate seems to cover much of it. It includes over a 100 references and concludes with links to numerous books and other analyses by scientists in a variety of fields. From what I can tell, Damore appears to be pushing an evolutionary biology narrative that is outdated and no longer supported by the majority. He cites studies and research of which the authors themselves have since said that his conclusions are not in line with their work or not necessarily applicable to the situation he’s referring to. The core of much of this resistance seems to be that while he gets the basics of some things right (there are of course some differences between men and women), Damore has overstated much of them, selectively ignored heaps of recent evidence challenging some of his points, paid little to no attention to how discrimination and social patterns can perpetuate inequalities rather than innate biological differences, and drew implications regarding human abilities and work skills that are inaccurate, all without recognizing the nuances and pitfalls of research in this field. One of the biggest issues with his memo is how it incorrectly appears to present particular schools of thought as fact and reflecting consensus while this is not the case at all, and how it misses findings in neuroscience that suggest conditioning and culture are at play rather than the biology he implies.

Damore raises some sound and relevant points and this discussion should be had, but a good amount of what he says simply lacks says nuance or is selectively interpreting evidence to make very questionable claims – as does much of the criticism depicting him as some sexist monster.
Sounds like you need to clean your bloody room BUCKO


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
The Queen probably.

Not because of any sentimental reasons, but the whole country's probably gonna grind to a halt when she goes.


 
 
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I DONT GIVE A SINGLE -blam!- MOTHER -blam!-ER ITS A MOTHER -blam!-ING FORUM, OH WOW, YOU HAVE THE WORD NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, HOW MOTHER -blam!-ING COOL, NOT, YOUR ARE NOTHING TO ME BUT A BRAINWASHED PIECE OF SHIT BLOGGER, PEOPLE ONLY LIKE YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NINJA BELOW YOUR NAME, SO PLEASE PUNCH YOURAELF IN THE FACE AND STAB YOUR EYE BECAUSE YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A PIECE OF SHIT OF SOCIETY
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Aether | Mythic Invincible!
 
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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
Spoiler
From what I can tell, the contents of the C16 bill seem to have been exaggerated and mischaracterized by many – Peterson included. There’s numerous articles and expert opinions that have covered this in depth. The effects of the law have been discussed in detail by professors of law and the Canadian Bar Association. Reading the text of the law itself and the accompanying explanatory notes should help clear much of that up.

The law changes two things. One, that gender identity is now explicitly recognized in the criminal code for sentencing and the crimes of advocating genocide and the willful promotion / public incitement of hatred. Using the wrong pronoun does not fall under this by any stretch of the imagination. Two, it adds gender expression to the Canadian Human Rights Code. This is nothing new and has been the case where Peterson lives for 5 years already. It relates to discrimination in certain areas such as employment and housing, meaning that you cannot do things like deny people jobs or rent based solely on the fact that they’re transgender. As the Canadian Department of Justice has already confirmed, this will not provide transgenders with special rights. There’s several other articles out there that include interviews with legal experts and overviews of Canadian court cases / official statements on this topic, but I’ll just give you a few more if you want to go through them. Warning, the last one is far too personally negative when it comes to Peterson but gives a very lengthy (6000 words) and detailed overview of the law and what it entails.

So yeah, in my opinion many blanket statements do amount to fearmongering and give the impression that people will face criminal charges for using the wrong pronouns. Peterson himself has admitted he doesn’t actually know the legal side of things very well, yet he still presents himself as an expert talking at length about farfetched and very questionable interpretations of the law that has actually already been applied in most Canadian regions for years without any of the concerns turning out to be true. In my opinion, the "SJW's are going after free speech and you're going to be in trouble for not catering to gender whims" narrative seems very unsubstantiated here. [/spoiler]

Spoiler
As for the Damore memo, there are again very extensive factchecks that present alternative evidence, research and studies that challenge or add nuance to his claims. This 40 page overview by a behavioral science and evolutionary biology PhD candidate seems to cover much of it. It includes over a 100 references and concludes with links to numerous books and other analyses by scientists in a variety of fields. From what I can tell, Damore appears to be pushing an evolutionary biology narrative that is outdated and no longer supported by the majority. He cites studies and research of which the authors themselves have since said that his conclusions are not in line with their work or not necessarily applicable to the situation he’s referring to. The core of much of this resistance seems to be that while he gets the basics of some things right (there are of course some differences between men and women), Damore has overstated much of them, selectively ignored heaps of recent evidence challenging some of his points, paid little to no attention to how discrimination and social patterns can perpetuate inequalities rather than innate biological differences, and drew implications regarding human abilities and work skills that are inaccurate, all without recognizing the nuances and pitfalls of research in this field. One of the biggest issues with his memo is how it incorrectly appears to present particular schools of thought as fact and reflecting consensus while this is not the case at all, and how it misses findings in neuroscience that suggest conditioning and culture are at play rather than the biology he implies.

Damore raises some sound and relevant points and this discussion should be had, but a good amount of what he says simply lacks says nuance or is selectively interpreting evidence to make very questionable claims – as does much of the criticism depicting him as some sexist monster.
In regards to Bill C-16, I will have to take the time to go through all the info on it. I've read the bill itself and it appears to be very vague in its wording. I'm not a legal expert so I'm not going to make any conclusions, but it looks to a layman like me that much of the bill is left up to interpretation. IE: what constitutes bias, what constitutes gender expression, what constitutes hate etc.

One of the answers in the Department of Justice link you posted seems to confirm that:

Quote
A. In order to ensure that the law would be as inclusive as possible, the terms “gender identity” and “gender expression” are not defined in the Bill. With very few exceptions, grounds of discrimination are not defined in legislation but are left to courts, tribunals, and commissions to interpret and explain, based on their detailed experience with particular cases.

If I am a professor at a university, and I refuse to refer to someone as zer, what in the law specifically draws the distinction between that and illegal discrimination? If I am a student, and I hold a protest  with signs stating that there are only two genders, what in the law distinguishes that from hate propaganda? What constitutes these things is unspecified. In the first instance, does the court not have the possibility to rule that my refusal to call someone zer is discrimination? Ergo, would that not be a ruling that I would have to refer to said person as zer under the penalty of law? There are claims that the bill does not apply to university classrooms, but I don't see that defined anywhere in the law. Where does it state that these laws to not apply in that setting?

 I've never seen Peterson claim that people would be thrown in jail for mis-gendering someone, however I have seen various people state that the law can inevitably lead to a jail sentence through contempt of court if one refuses to pay the fines levied against them for the courts ruling that what they did was discrimination.

Going through that, nothing seems to address the issue of interpretation. In fact it only seems to reinforce that it is a problem to me.

I'll have to look over the Damore links later, I know research evolves overtime and new findings are always coming out. I just hope most of it is strictly fact/research-oriented, and I don't see a bunch of mess trying to tell me the guy was pushing an 'alt-right' agenda or anything, because I watched multiple interviews with him and he didn't give me that impression at all. He just seems like a very analytical person that offered input in what ways he understands best, statistical data specifically. That his cited stats needed updating seems far more reasonable and likely than him trying to push a partisan narrative.
Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 03:42:06 PM by Aether


 
 
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Aether | Mythic Invincible!
 
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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
I'll get back to you shortly, btw.
Ah okay but I'll have to read it later because I'm totally out of it and can't concentrate on anything right now, so take all the time you need.


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Mark Hamill and Henry Rollins off the top of my head.


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A customer I knew quite well might've been murdered. I feel indifferent


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the one true God is Doctor Doom and we should all be worshiping him.
Stan Lee, I guess? The more I learn about him the more disappointed I get but he's altogether a cool old guy nonetheless.

I don't idolize celebrities anyway so I don't think I'd be "affected" in the way you probably mean.


 
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#13
One of the most beloved Toronto Maple Leafs alumni, Johnny Bower died recently and it had a bit more of an impact than I expected. I think it's just because he struck me as such a kind and honest man and I was really hoping he'd be alive to see the Leafs win their next championship as he was the goalie for the last one in 1967. He had such a love for the game and for the fans it was just sad to lose someone who had contributed so much and seemed like such a good person.


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I cried when Lil Peep passed away. That fuck boi was talented on a different level.


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As of now, the only one to come to mind is Bob Dylan. I've listened to his music since I was 6 or so.
 
Spoiler
And let's be honest, his time here is limited. He's 80+ and all those years of drugs took a toll on him.


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Miura, most of all. I've been into Berserk since my dad (inadvertently) introduced me to it at nine. I don't expect it to ever end at this rate due to Miura's obvious burnout of the series, but the moment he's actually unable to continue? I've been waiting for an end for fourteen years, and I can't imagine what those who actually experienced it from the beginning might feel if he were to die.


 
 
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Aether | Mythic Invincible!
 
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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
I understand your gripes with Peterson, and I think they're reasonable. That laws must be open to some degree of interpretation isn't something I am personally against. I would never expect the law to have to absolutely define every specific thing that constitutes discrimination.

Contemplating it further, I think the issue I have with the vagueness of the wording is that it doesn't adequately define discrimination or hate propaganda etc. in terms of the consequences of such. IE: an action that is preventing a person from receiving a service from a business, or messages that are inciting violence against a certain group. This would allow a court to better define what actions constitute these terms in my eyes.

You say that the refusal to refer to someone as zer is not defined as discrimination in the law, but I'm not seeing how, exactly. I'm sorry if I'm not understanding the law very well, It just doesn't seem to make that distinction.

Reading this section of the bill:

Quote
that all individuals should have an opportunity equal with other individuals to make for themselves the lives that they are able and wish to have and to have their needs accommodated, consistent with their duties and obligations as members of society, without being hindered in or prevented from doing so by discriminatory practices

It would seem the law places the responsibility on the courts to determine whether or not an action, such as refusing to refer to someone with a gender-neutral pronoun, is a violation of a person's right to "an equal opportunity with other individuals to make for themselves the lives that they are able and wish to have and to have their needs accommodated etc."

What exactly is stopping the court from ruling that the refusal to refer to someone with gender-neutral pronouns is a violation of this right? Can they not make the case that doing so is preventing someone from, "making for themselves the lives that they are able and wish to have and to have their needs accommodated?"
Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 02:30:38 PM by Aether


 
 
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Aether | Mythic Invincible!
 
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Long live NoNolesNeckin.

Ya fuckin' ganderneck.
I'll have to go through all of this in detail when I'm not so mentally fatigued. Even reading over the last post and responding took way more effort than I honestly have the energy to muster, dealing with my deteriorated health right now. I tried to skim through for the time being, to at least get a decent understanding and I think I see what you're trying to explain, at least I hope I do.

I would like to say that I never did think that this new legislation would be used to take anyone to court for refusing to use gender-neutral pronouns, at least not so long as the courts consist of reasonable people. The issue I was having was whether or not the possibility of such a thing was actually instantiated in the law. If the law could be interpreted that way somehow, to present an opportunity for ideologues to actually try to use it against someone at any point in the future. Basically, my concern was, not so much that is it a possibility now, but could it become a possibility in the future as society changes overtime and is the law structured in such a way that would prevent it from becoming a possibility.