Which is more likely to lead to Utopia? Pure capitalism or pure socialism?

MyNameIsCharlie · March 09, 2017, 08:40:21 PM

When I read anything from a hardcore adherent from either school of thought, both couch their argument so that it would be a utopia if their particular system wasn't contaminated by its opposite.

Now there are many paths to any destination, and both sides could be correct. But maybe one gets there sooner, or more easily.

So which do you see as the shortest path to the true betterment of all mankind?

Jono · March 09, 2017, 08:42:58 PM

Socialism is great guys that's why people build rafts out of trash and cross thousands of miles of ocean just to get away from it

DAS B00T x2 · March 09, 2017, 08:49:34 PM

Pure socialism creates stagnation in an environment troubled by scarcity of resources and without an outside competition driving military capable technologies at the federal level (see: American-Soviet arms race/space race)
Pure free-market capitalism has a better chance of reaching the post scarcity endgame. Unfortunately, it also poses the risk of over-exhaustion of the current available resources and societal turbulence/revolt/collapse.

It's really just a choice between if you're cool with the status quo or it you're a gambling man.

"But Das, why is there a federal level in socialism"
Well, you're right. The purest form of leftist livelihood is anarcho-syndicalism, because then you don't even have government representatives and everyone is truly and purely equal. But then I and a few other dudes band together and convince some children to become our soldiers in echange for some wheat and next thing you know anarcho-capitalism happens and we all are racing to develop our own recreational nukes.
I guess capitalism wins.

i am karjala takaisin · March 09, 2017, 08:54:53 PM

anarcho capitalism is the only way to go tbh

Mordo · March 09, 2017, 09:06:17 PM

anarcho whomst'veism

Dietrich Six · March 09, 2017, 09:10:30 PM

Remove human nature and socialism is great, unfortunately that ain't happening.

DAS B00T x2 · March 09, 2017, 09:17:13 PM

Quote from: Anglosaxophone on March 09, 2017, 09:06:17 PM

anarcho whomst'veism

legalize recreational nuke'd've'stmtphs

Mordo · March 09, 2017, 09:27:42 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on March 09, 2017, 09:17:13 PM

Quote from: Anglosaxophone on March 09, 2017, 09:06:17 PM
anarcho whomst'veism
legalize recreational nuke'd've'stmtphs

I SAID I'LL HAVE A BOBA BOLA

Super Irish · March 09, 2017, 09:28:35 PM

You'd think Socialism right?

It's kinda in the title.

i am karjala takaisin · March 09, 2017, 09:31:04 PM

Quote from: Anglosaxophone on March 09, 2017, 09:27:42 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on March 09, 2017, 09:17:13 PM
Quote from: Anglosaxophone on March 09, 2017, 09:06:17 PM
anarcho whomst'veism
legalize recreational nuke'd've'stmtphs
I SAID I'LL HAVE A BOBA BOLA

boba bola machine B̷̛̛͇̥̮̖̅̾̋̑̎ͨṞ̷̵̥̤͔̬͈̯̃̂͒̿̏ͣ͋̈́͒͐̍̉̽́͡O̗͎̼̭̜͎̜͎̗̥̭͇̭̗͓̺͍͕̓̏̈́̐͛́͟Ķ̹̗̼̙͖͖͖͔̞͇̘͍̭͈̯͎ͫͪ̓̾̀ͫ̓̄̃ͪ̉̒̔ͬ̉ͥ̊̚̕E͗͒̈̄̈͑̊͜͢͟҉̰̣̣̰̜͙͙̞͔͙̝̘̱̺ͅͅ

Mordo · March 09, 2017, 09:32:42 PM

Quote from: whomst u speakin to, thot on March 09, 2017, 09:31:04 PM

Quote from: Anglosaxophone on March 09, 2017, 09:27:42 PM
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on March 09, 2017, 09:17:13 PM
Quote from: Anglosaxophone on March 09, 2017, 09:06:17 PM
anarcho whomst'veism
legalize recreational nuke'd've'stmtphs
I SAID I'LL HAVE A BOBA BOLA
boba bola machine B̷̛̛͇̥̮̖̅̾̋̑̎ͨṞ̷̵̥̤͔̬͈̯̃̂͒̿̏ͣ͋̈́͒͐̍̉̽́͡O̗͎̼̭̜͎̜͎̗̥̭͇̭̗͓̺͍͕̓̏̈́̐͛́͟Ķ̹̗̼̙͖͖͖͔̞͇̘͍̭͈̯͎ͫͪ̓̾̀ͫ̓̄̃ͪ̉̒̔ͬ̉ͥ̊̚̕E͗͒̈̄̈͑̊͜͢͟҉̰̣̣̰̜͙͙̞͔͙̝̘̱̺ͅͅ

BISH FIX THAT

ｂｏｔｔｏｍ　ｔｅｘｔ

DAS B00T x2 · March 09, 2017, 09:39:11 PM

this is getting too metamemical for me now

Mr. Psychologist · March 09, 2017, 10:00:24 PM

Neither.

Only a technotheocractic world is possible of achieving utopia.

DAS B00T x2 · March 09, 2017, 10:11:02 PM

Quote from: Mr. Psychologist on March 09, 2017, 10:00:24 PM

Neither.

Only a technotheocractic world is possible of achieving utopia.

I think you mean only a four-cornered simultaneous earth day world.

Aether · March 09, 2017, 10:46:36 PM

I don't think either of them are. One maybe better than the other under some certain conditions but neither can accommodate and make up for the flaws of human nature that do not allow for an utopian society.

Turkey · March 09, 2017, 10:50:02 PM

I don't see how socialism can lead to a post-scarcity society, but I think it will certainly result from one.

Korra · March 09, 2017, 10:52:27 PM

Imperialism is the way to go.

Ian · March 09, 2017, 11:14:50 PM

Pure Capitalism

Pure Socialism is a meme made up by Marxists to try and not scare people away from their madness.

MyNameIsCharlie · March 09, 2017, 11:46:09 PM

Quote from: Aether on March 09, 2017, 10:46:36 PM

I don't think either of them are. One maybe better than the other under some certain conditions but neither can accommodate and make up for the flaws of human nature that do not allow for an utopian society.

Utopia literally means nowhere. This was realized BCE. But we're into the tall grass. Theory and ifs. Or at least if onlies. There could never be a "pure" system as laid out by the hardcore adherents. Even Das would say some government intervention, however minor, is necessary.

DAS B00T x2 · March 09, 2017, 11:57:32 PM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on March 09, 2017, 11:46:09 PM

Quote from: Aether on March 09, 2017, 10:46:36 PM
I don't think either of them are. One maybe better than the other under some certain conditions but neither can accommodate and make up for the flaws of human nature that do not allow for an utopian society.

Utopia literally means nowhere. This was realized BCE. But we're into the tall grass. Theory and ifs. Or at least if onlies. There could never be a "pure" system as laid out by the hardcore adherents. Even Das would say some government intervention, however minor, is necessary.

Aye

We must do what is necessary for the protection of a free state and the good of the planet and ecosystem that we inhabit.

MyNameIsCharlie · March 09, 2017, 11:59:00 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on March 09, 2017, 11:57:32 PM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on March 09, 2017, 11:46:09 PM
Quote from: Aether on March 09, 2017, 10:46:36 PM
I don't think either of them are. One maybe better than the other under some certain conditions but neither can accommodate and make up for the flaws of human nature that do not allow for an utopian society.

Utopia literally means nowhere. This was realized BCE. But we're into the tall grass. Theory and ifs. Or at least if onlies. There could never be a "pure" system as laid out by the hardcore adherents. Even Das would say some government intervention, however minor, is necessary.
Aye

We must do what is necessary for the protection of a free state and the good of the planet and ecosystem that we inhabit.

Das, I am your future when you realize that there's no Zionist agenda out to get you.

DAS B00T x2 · March 10, 2017, 12:03:28 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on March 09, 2017, 11:59:00 PM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on March 09, 2017, 11:57:32 PM
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on March 09, 2017, 11:46:09 PM
Quote from: Aether on March 09, 2017, 10:46:36 PM
I don't think either of them are. One maybe better than the other under some certain conditions but neither can accommodate and make up for the flaws of human nature that do not allow for an utopian society.

Utopia literally means nowhere. This was realized BCE. But we're into the tall grass. Theory and ifs. Or at least if onlies. There could never be a "pure" system as laid out by the hardcore adherents. Even Das would say some government intervention, however minor, is necessary.
Aye

We must do what is necessary for the protection of a free state and the good of the planet and ecosystem that we inhabit.

Das, I am your future when you realize that there's no Zionist agenda out to get you.

But Charlie
There is

Verbatim · March 10, 2017, 12:06:09 AM

The Zionists will win and it will be glorious.

MyNameIsCharlie · March 10, 2017, 12:15:31 AM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on March 10, 2017, 12:03:28 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on March 09, 2017, 11:59:00 PM
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on March 09, 2017, 11:57:32 PM
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on March 09, 2017, 11:46:09 PM
Quote from: Aether on March 09, 2017, 10:46:36 PM
I don't think either of them are. One maybe better than the other under some certain conditions but neither can accommodate and make up for the flaws of human nature that do not allow for an utopian society.

Utopia literally means nowhere. This was realized BCE. But we're into the tall grass. Theory and ifs. Or at least if onlies. There could never be a "pure" system as laid out by the hardcore adherents. Even Das would say some government intervention, however minor, is necessary.
Aye

We must do what is necessary for the protection of a free state and the good of the planet and ecosystem that we inhabit.

Das, I am your future when you realize that there's no Zionist agenda out to get you.
But Charlie
There is

Hate to tell you this. Life is shit. Someone's out for everyone else. There's no conspiracy against anyone else. Not at that level. Believe me, life would be simpler if there was. It's all random bro. There's no drama playing out on a grand scale. It's all individual actors playing their parts in a play with no plot. Even national level parties fall apart in a few years. Maybe at one point there was a Zionist cabal. It fell apart long ago.

We're nothing more than animals acting for at most the next generation. If there actually was a Zionist agenda, then the should lead the world because they are the only ones who could embrace more than the well being of their grandkids.

Or, it's how I have come to see it: there's no true good or evil. Just a bunch of apes trying to make sure their DNA is perpetuated. My line is ended. Ex Mrs Charlie saw to that when she aborted my kid in a DC Planned Parenthood. That's the true Red Pill. I have nothing to gain in the game anymore.

You know about fractals. The picture is the same regardless of scale. Look closely or at the macro, you see the same image. Life is nothing beyond eat or be eaten and perpetuate your genes.

DAS B00T x2 · March 10, 2017, 12:30:06 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on March 10, 2017, 12:15:31 AM

Life is nothing beyond eat or be eaten and perpetuate your genes.

Life became much more than that when we founded the basis for society though. Man has removed himself from nature and natural selection, no matter how base the instincts in some lesser breeds remain.

MyNameIsCharlie · March 10, 2017, 12:56:11 AM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on March 10, 2017, 12:30:06 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on March 10, 2017, 12:15:31 AM
Life is nothing beyond eat or be eaten and perpetuate your genes.
Life became much more than that when we founded the basis for society though. Man has removed himself from nature and natural selection, no matter how base the instincts in some lesser breeds remain.

So you think. Adaptation takes many forms. Communal raising of children, a necessity formed by larger brains and a lesser dependency on instinct, gave rise to a division of labor. But it's still nothing more than perpetuating genes. You play the game or be excluded from it. We as humans think we're special. We're not. Alliances crumble and you are left with nothing beyond perpetuating DNA. That's why cabals fall apart. No one can think beyond two generations at most.

A cabal of Zionists fell apart years ago. All that's left are us apes still fighting for our genes being passed on instead of the next apes.

I can't even say it's human nature. It's just nature.

The Lord Ruler · March 10, 2017, 01:02:11 AM

socialism if we genocide the blacks

FatherlyNick - fuck putin · March 10, 2017, 03:49:17 AM

If it wasn't for human corruption, both systems would be perfect. But because humans operate on a "Shit on the one below you and lick the asshole of the one above you" mentality, we are bound to be fucked in either system.

See the Assimilation ending for Deus Ex.

DAS B00T x2 · March 10, 2017, 10:06:59 AM

Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on March 10, 2017, 12:56:11 AM

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on March 10, 2017, 12:30:06 AM
Quote from: MyNameIsCharlie on March 10, 2017, 12:15:31 AM
Life is nothing beyond eat or be eaten and perpetuate your genes.
Life became much more than that when we founded the basis for society though. Man has removed himself from nature and natural selection, no matter how base the instincts in some lesser breeds remain.

So you think. Adaptation takes many forms. Communal raising of children, a necessity formed by larger brains and a lesser dependency on instinct, gave rise to a division of labor. But it's still nothing more than perpetuating genes. You play the game or be excluded from it. We as humans think we're special. We're not. Alliances crumble and you are left with nothing beyond perpetuating DNA. That's why cabals fall apart. No one can think beyond two generations at most.

A cabal of Zionists fell apart years ago. All that's left are us apes still fighting for our genes being passed on instead of the next apes.

I can't even say it's human nature. It's just nature.

But Charlie, can't you see the echoes history? Even if you say they fall apart quickly, how long did the Knights Templar last? How many years have the Masons and the Shriners been in America?
Even if a Zionist ring falls apart every few generations, a new one rises behind it. And a generation can span a long time, charlie. The same group of Zionists that orchestrated WWI a way to force the Kaiser to open up central Europe to foreign banking incfluence could have been behind stirring up the Arabs and bankrolling fifteen Saudis , two Emiratees, an Egyptian, and a Lebanese man to crash some jumbo jets into a couple buildings.