What makes a villain interesting?

Big Boss · August 10, 2017, 12:17:36 PM

I'm planning on getting into writing again and I'm in the planning stages of my story. Currently trying to figure out what sort of villain I want.

Do you think all villains need a motive or backstory that is sympathetic or makes sense, or do you sometimes enjoy villains that are just evil for the sake of being evil?

Trying to gauge. I can use both if I have multiple baddies I guess.

Korra · August 10, 2017, 12:18:28 PM

what makes villains interesting is that they think they are the heroes

Big Boss · August 10, 2017, 12:19:23 PM

Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:18:28 PM

what makes villains interesting is that they think they are the heroes

What about ones who know what they are doing isn't heroic, but they are doing it just to keep things running the way they think is right?

Korra · August 10, 2017, 12:24:44 PM

Quote from: Big Boss on August 10, 2017, 12:19:23 PM

Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:18:28 PM
what makes villains interesting is that they think they are the heroes

What about ones who know what they are doing isn't heroic, but they are doing it just to keep things running the way they think is right?

Agents of chaos? Sure. Just don't make then overly annoying.

Elai · August 10, 2017, 12:24:47 PM

How willing they are to team up with Spider-man to rule the city.

Big Boss · August 10, 2017, 12:25:55 PM

Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:24:44 PM

Quote from: Big Boss on August 10, 2017, 12:19:23 PM
Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:18:28 PM
what makes villains interesting is that they think they are the heroes

What about ones who know what they are doing isn't heroic, but they are doing it just to keep things running the way they think is right?
Agents of chaos? Sure. Just don't make then overly annoying.

I was thinking more along the lines of them being in charge of running a city as a dictator for so long that they don't see how they could do it any other way.

Korra · August 10, 2017, 12:27:00 PM

Quote from: Big Boss on August 10, 2017, 12:25:55 PM

Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: Big Boss on August 10, 2017, 12:19:23 PM
Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:18:28 PM
what makes villains interesting is that they think they are the heroes

What about ones who know what they are doing isn't heroic, but they are doing it just to keep things running the way they think is right?
Agents of chaos? Sure. Just don't make then overly annoying.
I was thinking more along the lines of them being in charge of running a city as a dictator for so long that they don't see how they could do it any other way.

So Doctor Doom?

Big Boss · August 10, 2017, 12:29:23 PM

Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:27:00 PM

Quote from: Big Boss on August 10, 2017, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: Big Boss on August 10, 2017, 12:19:23 PM
Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:18:28 PM
what makes villains interesting is that they think they are the heroes

What about ones who know what they are doing isn't heroic, but they are doing it just to keep things running the way they think is right?
Agents of chaos? Sure. Just don't make then overly annoying.
I was thinking more along the lines of them being in charge of running a city as a dictator for so long that they don't see how they could do it any other way.
So Doctor Doom?

Yeah guess so. They're not exactly a hero by any means but they keep order well enough.

Korra · August 10, 2017, 12:33:24 PM

Quote from: Big Boss on August 10, 2017, 12:29:23 PM

Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: Big Boss on August 10, 2017, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: Big Boss on August 10, 2017, 12:19:23 PM
Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:18:28 PM
what makes villains interesting is that they think they are the heroes

What about ones who know what they are doing isn't heroic, but they are doing it just to keep things running the way they think is right?
Agents of chaos? Sure. Just don't make then overly annoying.
I was thinking more along the lines of them being in charge of running a city as a dictator for so long that they don't see how they could do it any other way.
So Doctor Doom?

Yeah guess so. They're not exactly a hero by any means but they keep order well enough.

Just analyze Magneto and Doom's characters and see what you can take from them.

Ásgeirr · August 10, 2017, 12:34:54 PM

I dont really care for motives as much as their mentality. Im drawn to less sane characters like Joker, theyre fascinating.

big dog · August 10, 2017, 12:37:11 PM

Quote from: Snake on August 10, 2017, 12:24:47 PM

How willing they are to team up with Spider-man to rule the city.

gats · August 10, 2017, 12:38:59 PM

Quote from: oss on August 10, 2017, 12:34:54 PM

I dont really care for motives as much as their mentality. Im drawn to less sane characters like Joker, theyre fascinating.

D A M A G E D

Big Boss · August 10, 2017, 12:45:10 PM

Okay so this is a really rough draft of what I have.

Basically, the setting is a fantasy land where portals open and people from other dimensions get dropped in and nobody quite knows why. It's a bit of a mish mash land with many different types of characters like knights, cowboys, witches, etc.

Long ago in the past, the world was pretty much Earth and there was a massive war. One of the soldiers, seeking an end to the conflict, found and used an ancient magic spell that essentially opened up a rift that wiped out both sides and began to draw other worlds closer to this one, dragging people in. He was fine with it at first, but as time has gone on and more and more people have appeared he began to see that the peaceful world he created was being slowly torn apart and corrupted by the ever growing population.

He took to acting as more of a dictator and cordoning off the different cultures by force, and closing any new portals that appeared to prevent new people entering the world. If anyone new does enter, he kills them. He doesn't enjoy it, and at the start he even hated it but as time has gone on he sees it as necessary and isn't bothered by it at all.

Big Boss · August 10, 2017, 12:48:24 PM

I don't want my main villain to be a colossal asshole but I'm fine with making his underlings a bunch of scumbags who enjoy being nasty to people.

Ásgeirr · August 10, 2017, 02:16:19 PM

Quote from: gats on August 10, 2017, 12:38:59 PM

Quote from: oss on August 10, 2017, 12:34:54 PM
I dont really care for motives as much as their mentality. Im drawn to less sane characters like Joker, theyre fascinating.
D A M A G E D

>that time i told gats to kys
I N S A N E

Casper · August 10, 2017, 02:22:21 PM

I'm a fan of charismatic villains who know what they want and know how to spin it in a way that seems justified or actually believe what they're doing is right. Darth Maul would be a good example of that, but the Dr Nefarious and Emperor Palpatine types are fun, too. Oh and GLaDOS

MyNameIsCharlie · August 10, 2017, 02:40:19 PM

A good backstory of how they got to be there. That's a good start. From there a believable powerset that is explained and used effectively. Dr Doom is a great example of this.

Doctor Doom · August 10, 2017, 02:41:39 PM

I'd go with sympathetic motives and ideals as well. Villains that have legitimate reasons for their atrocities are infinitely more interesting than villains who do evil things because they're evil. Or in other words, take a look at Carnage or the Joker, and then do the exact opposite.

One trick I've picked up is to spend a few chapters from the villain's perspective, write them as a second protagonist, and try to get the reader to understand their thought process. Write them from a neutral standpoint, not judging or demonizing, and present their actions as arguably reasonable in context, but still at odds with the protagonist. This helps make the character whose actions will drive the story more than just a talking obstacle the hero has to overcome.

Big Boss · August 10, 2017, 02:42:09 PM

Maybe if it turns out that they're more of an anti villain, and there's an even more sinister, otherworldly force behind them that has corrupted them somehow to the point that their original goal has been lost.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · August 10, 2017, 04:28:50 PM

abs, leather jackets, and cheesy one liners

Zizzy · August 10, 2017, 06:27:20 PM

i like when you can't really fault a villain for their actions like... you know it's evil but you can also justify it and it causes you to question everything

like that character from watchmen(?) who killed millions of people to prevent a nuclear fallout that would have destroyed the planet

Jive Turkey · August 11, 2017, 02:14:36 AM

I like villains that do really evil shit. That make you hate them

challengerX · August 11, 2017, 12:02:15 PM

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🍁 Aria 🔮 · August 11, 2017, 01:04:07 PM

Quote from: challengerX on August 11, 2017, 12:02:15 PM

Quote from: Aria on August 10, 2017, 04:28:50 PM
abs, leather jackets, and cheesy one liners
Sounds like an action movie hero.

think of how much property damage they cause and see if they're still heroes #deep

August 11, 2017, 01:10:51 PM

Quote from: Big Boss on August 10, 2017, 12:29:23 PM

Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:27:00 PM
Quote from: Big Boss on August 10, 2017, 12:25:55 PM
Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: Big Boss on August 10, 2017, 12:19:23 PM
Quote from: Gwen on August 10, 2017, 12:18:28 PM
what makes villains interesting is that they think they are the heroes

What about ones who know what they are doing isn't heroic, but they are doing it just to keep things running the way they think is right?
Agents of chaos? Sure. Just don't make then overly annoying.
I was thinking more along the lines of them being in charge of running a city as a dictator for so long that they don't see how they could do it any other way.
So Doctor Doom?

Yeah guess so. They're not exactly a hero by any means but they keep order well enough.

Sounds like Dante Wallace from The 100.

"I bear it so they don't have to."

challengerX · August 11, 2017, 01:49:07 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

🍁 Aria 🔮 · August 11, 2017, 02:26:41 PM

Quote from: challengerX on August 11, 2017, 01:49:07 PM

Quote from: Aria on August 11, 2017, 01:04:07 PM
Quote from: challengerX on August 11, 2017, 12:02:15 PM
Quote from: Aria on August 10, 2017, 04:28:50 PM
abs, leather jackets, and cheesy one liners
Sounds like an action movie hero.
think of how much property damage they cause and see if they're still heroes #deep
Taxation is theft

action heroes work in conjunction with the government to pave way for rebuilding the state as they wish by destroying the livelihood of innocent bystanders

DAS B00T x2 · August 11, 2017, 02:28:26 PM

Quote from: Aria on August 11, 2017, 02:26:41 PM

Quote from: challengerX on August 11, 2017, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: Aria on August 11, 2017, 01:04:07 PM
Quote from: challengerX on August 11, 2017, 12:02:15 PM
Quote from: Aria on August 10, 2017, 04:28:50 PM
abs, leather jackets, and cheesy one liners
Sounds like an action movie hero.
think of how much property damage they cause and see if they're still heroes #deep
Taxation is theft
action heroes work in conjunction with the government to pave way for rebuilding the state as they wish by destroying the livelihood of innocent bystanders

Captain America is a globalist Jew puppet

challengerX · August 11, 2017, 03:14:48 PM

This user has been blacklisted from posting on the forums. Until the blacklist is lifted, all posts made by this user have been hidden and require a Sep7agon^® SecondClass Premium Membership to view.

Big Boss · August 11, 2017, 03:23:51 PM

Been pondering it, and I kinda like the idea of finding out that the guy you think is the villain is just a washed up remnant of what he used to be

But also without dropping a new sudden surprise bad guy out of nowhere as the REAL big bad