Thoughts on The Force Awakens?

Tackel | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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It's been 2 weeks now, so the dust has settled a little bit to form a reasonable opinion. What are your guys' thoughts on the film?

For me, the film is one of the worst Star Wars films to date. If I were to rank the films, it'd be:
 
1) Revenge of the Sith
2) Return of the Jedi
3) The Empire Strikes Back
4) A New Hope
5) The Phantom Menace
6) Attack of the Clones
7) The Force Awakens

After watching the film, I was really disappointed. I went into the movie theater with no expectations or preconceived thoughts on the film, but it was still a let down. It was a surprise, especially with how much praise the film had been receiving. I'll break down each point individually in a spoiler.

The Plot:


Spoiler
My first major gripe is the story. From the start, there is a droid containing vital information for the Rebellion, and it's separated from it's master on a desert planet. The droid is attack by local scavengers, and then rescued eventually saved by a young individual living in relative isolation, who is later found to be strong in the Force. Meanwhile, the droid's master is being interrogated for information. They are eventually rescued by someone dressed in a stormtrooper outfit. The Empire in search of the droid land on the desert planet and destroy the home of our hero. The droid and main hero manage to escape on the Millenium Falcon, and gain the help of Han Solo and Chewbacca. The main villain is a mask wearing and powerful warrior using a voice filter. This villain eventually kills the main hero's mentor and father figure. The Empire has a massive super weapon and demonstrate it's power by killing planets. To destroy this weapon, the Rebellion sends in a small team of X-Wings. The super weapon is then destroyed by a great pilot by flying down through a trench and hitting the super weapon's weak point.

Which Star Wars film did I just describe? Episode VII is a "bigger than life" version of Episode IV. Nothing original here folks.

It's everything we've seen, but "bigger".

Simply taking things from the Original Trilogy and making them bigger and more "badass" looking doesn't make them good. They should be going for emotional impact instead of just increasing the scale of everything.

- Rey is like Luke, but 100 times more powerful and awesome
- Han Solo is flying and shooting better than he ever did before
- Starkiller base is the Death Star on steroids

There's a snow planet, but it's not Hoth. There's a desert planet, but it's not Tatooine. There's a ruin planet with trees, but it's not Yavin IV. There's a Death Star, it's not really the Death Star.

The story feels rushed:


Spoiler
A major issue with the plot, is even though it is a familiar formula taken from A New Hope, it doesn't work nearly as well due to the terrible world building and questions left hanging over the film. Nothing is explained in this film, no context is given to the Republic, Resistance, or the First Order. It's like a TV show pilot, to get you to watch the rest of the season, which is not what a film should be.

- Did Starkiller just blow up Coruscant?
- How did Anakin's lightsaber get into Maz's castle?
- Why did Lor San Tekka have a map to Luke?
- How do Rey and Finn know how to fight with a lightsaber?
- What happens in Rey's vision?
- Why is Finn different to the other Stormtroopers?
- Who are the Knights of Ren?
- Who is Snoke?
- Why does R2-D2 just suddenly wake up?
- How did Kylo get Vader's mask?
- Did Maz live?
- Did Hux live?
- Did Kylo live?
- Did Phasma live?

The backdrop to the plot in A New Hope is the simple tale of the underdog, we don't need much context. There was nothing before it to leave us with many questions, and those that we did have were answered in the film. However, The Force Awakens continues after Episode VI, which tied up the story and left no real loose ends.

It is confusing and unclear as to what the current political situation is. In a Star Wars film, this is an issue. The film sorely needs some exposition. Not a 20 minute political talk like in Attack of the Clones and The Phantom Menace, but just something with a little substance. Where were the round table meetings to discuss the political situation? Where's the calmer moments to help learn about these new characters? Why should we care about those planets being destroyed or the Republic when we don't even know what they are?

The film suffers from some kind of allergy to politics. Like it was decided in some board room, "People hate the Prequels, right? And the Prequels of politics, right? Well let's not mention any of that. and also, let's destroy the Republic and Senate with Starkiller Base, so there's no chance of any Senate or politics in the future movies."

Coincidences:

Spoiler
The Force Awakens is so reliant on coincidences and convenience that it borders on comical.

- Rey finding BB-8.
- Finn and Poe crash land near town to find BB-8.
- Finding the Falcon working.
- Han and Chewie being near Jakku at the right moment.
- Rey's miraculous use of the Force and having the knowledge to overcome ALL problems at just the right moments.
- Maz just so happens to have Anakin's lightsaber.
- Poe returning out of nowhere, with no plausible explanation as to why he would just abandon his mission on Jakku.
- Having the plans to Starkiller base, even though they had no idea of its existence moments ago.
- Finn surviving a lightsaber strike that would kill anyone else
- Ground breaking the fight between Rey and Kylo.

Yes, the Force can guide people, but this just screams lazy and convenient writing.

The Prequels are better:

Spoiler
This film feels like a slightly surreal and expensive fan film, more than a numbered entry into the Star Wars saga. This film should be forging it's own story, and not keep winking at the audience about the old ones, while simultaneously ripping off their story lines. Episode VII totally fails as a Star Wars story. The Prequels, while not great films, do feel part of the Star Wars saga. Their stories are creative and original. The Prequels fail to some not due to the story, but do to the filmmaking. Each Prequel tried something new, and expand the universe beyond the limitations of the originals.

The transition from III to IV makes sense. It adds to the saga. You don't go from III to IV (or any of the other films for that matter) thinking "Huh?! What just happened? Why are we here now?". The transition from VI to VII however is jarring, and doesn't make anysense when put into the context of the rest of the films.

Episode VII should be the start of a new trilogy that stands on it's own feet. Instead we have been given some kind of strange homage filled remake of Episode IV. Imagine if someone 30 years from now watches the films without any knowledge of the long rate (30 years or so) between VI and VII.

Destroys pre-established characters:


Spoiler
The Force Awakens betrays the legacy of the Original Trilogy. Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewie are best friends who could take on the whole world together. There was genuine love and friendship for each other.  The Force Awakens not only ruins the ending established fro them in Episode VI, but also changes their characters for the worst.

After Han dies, Chewies screams and shoots Kylo, and Leia looks sad... and that's it. It's a major moment glossed over. Then when the go back to the Resistance base, Chewie just strolls past Leia as she goes to hug Rey (A character she hasn't even met yet!). The Chewie and Leia in the OT would not act like that. Leia wouldn't have even let Han go alone in the first place.

Did you think Han and Leia would have lived happily together? No, their son is a murderer and they left each other. Did you think Luke would never give up on his friends or the galaxy? Well he ran away and became a hermit, leading to billions of deaths.  The old Luke would have never left his friends and leave them to their fate. It just screams inconsistent and convenient.

I'm not saying these character can't have bad things happen to them, but make it believable.

***TL;DR: The Force Awakens is a poorly written "by-the-book" film, made to appease Prequel haters and lovers of the Original Trilogy. Abrams plays it safe. So safe that he has made a lifeless, uncreative, and ultimately disappointing Star Wars story. The film may shape up better as the rest of the trilogy is made, but as a standalone film, I rank it as the worst Star Wars film to date. ***


Nexus | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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It was fun to spoil for Roman Fatiator.


Nick McIntyre | Legendary Invincible!
 
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"The prequels were better"

Lol.

Still waiting on that Plinkett rebuttal.


RomanGladiator | Legendary Invincible!
 
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It was fun to spoil for Roman Fatiator.
But you failed, because nothing was spoiled for me. One thing I read on the internet far before that was speculated about for a very long time. That's it.


Nexus | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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It was fun to spoil for Roman Fatiator.
But you failed, because nothing was spoiled for me. One thing I read on the internet far before that was speculated about for a very long time. That's it.
Lol. Okay man.


RomanGladiator | Legendary Invincible!
 
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It was fun to spoil for Roman Fatiator.
But you failed, because nothing was spoiled for me. One thing I read on the internet far before that was speculated about for a very long time. That's it.
Lol. Okay man.
I was careful not to look through PMs or Deci obvious posts. Han and "Luke Skywalker is missing" Literally all that was spoiled mate. Which I knew before hand after browsing episode 7 news for a year for leaks. Most of them turned out to be true.


BaconShelf | Mythic Inconceivable!
 
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I went to see it thrice.

Tied with Fury Road for FOTY for me.


Girl of Mystery | Mythic Unfrigginbelievable!
 
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A flower which blooms on the battlefield
The worst one? but you think RotS is the best?

lmao
m
a
o


Tackel | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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"The prequels were better"

Lol.

Still waiting on that Plinkett rebuttal.

Nice job reading.


nosejob | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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I would hardly call this movie lifeless.


Tackel | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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I would hardly call this movie lifeless.
Why?


Mordo | Mythic Invincible!
 
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emigrate or degenerate. the choice is yours
I'm curious as to why you marked TFA down for its plot inconsistencies despite the fact that RoTS commits the most egregious plot holes out of all the movies.


 
Jono
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Goodness gracious, great balls of lightning!
It's my 3rd favorite Star Wars movie. I liked it so much that it took Return of the Jedi off my top 3 list.

1. A New Hope
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. The Force Awakens


RomanGladiator | Legendary Invincible!
 
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It's my 3rd favorite Star Wars movie. I liked it so much that it took Return of the Jedi off my top 3 list.

1. A New Hope
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. The Force Awakens
Most likely my list, too. Them Ewoks sure hold ROTJ back.


 
Verbatim
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Best in the series, but that's not saying a whole lot.


nosejob | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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I would hardly call this movie lifeless.
Why?
It had a lively cast, it was genuinely funny, and it had great action.


 
Elai
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male, he/him

dracula can eat my whole ass!
It's hardly the worst, but I agree that it was far too much like ANH to garner the praise it's getting.


Dan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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Spoiler
It was the most meh of all the Star Wars films.
There was very little originality or creativity. It becomes pretty clear that the movie was done in the most unoffensive way possible in order to please as many fans.

Also, the plot was basically A New Hope's plot.

I honestly can't believe that it received 94% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 04:32:00 PM by Dani Bobani


maverick | Legendary Invincible!
 
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I agree with all of your complaints. The film seemed like such an appeasement to the prequel criticisms that I wouldn't be surprised if Plinkett was a head consultant.

I loved everything involving Kylo Ren and his upbringing and all the characters were good but the story falls short beyond that. They could have really done some interesting things furthering the story, 30 years after ROTJ, but it was basically a copy/paste where the villains are all powerful and the puny rebellion is still just a resistance movement.

If they would have adapted the story written by George, I feel like the movie would have been amazing. They at least should have involved him in the design of planets and creatures.

When I first finished it, I ranked them 5>4>7>6>3>2>1, but now I'm thinking 5>4>6>3>7>2>1.


Girl of Mystery | Mythic Unfrigginbelievable!
 
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A flower which blooms on the battlefield
#1 - Empire Strikes Back
#2 - The Force Awakens
#3 - Return of the Jedi
#4 - A New Hope
#5 - Revenge of the Sith
#6 - Attack of the Clones
#7 - Phantom Menace
Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 04:54:07 PM by Lemnator


Tackel | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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I agree with all of your complaints. The film seemed like such an appeasement to the prequel criticisms that I wouldn't be surprised if Plinkett was a head consultant.

I loved everything involving Kylo Ren and his upbringing and all the characters were good but the story falls short beyond that. They could have really done some interesting things furthering the story, 30 years after ROTJ, but it was basically a copy/paste where the villains are all powerful and the puny rebellion is still just a resistance movement.

If they would have adapted the story written by George, I feel like the movie would have been amazing. They at least should have involved him in the design of planets and creatures.

When I first finished it, I ranked them 5>4>7>6>3>2>1, but now I'm thinking 5>4>6>3>7>2>1.

I say 7 is the worst, but it doesn't mean it's bad. People like to construde their own thoughts on the matter.

For example if I say, "The Phantom Menace is better than Empire Strikes Back", people would intemperate me calling ESB shit since they hold TPM at such a low esteem. But I hold all the film at high esteem.

The force awakens is the worst film to me, but it's like a 92/100 instead of the 98/100 that the other films have.


The Hån | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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does this stuff even work?
I appreciate your love for the prequels. RoTS is still to date my favorite film of the saga.

OT:
While the acting, script, and action were amazing. the general plot of the movie failed. If i wanted to watch ANH then i would just go watch ANH. Also like you stated in the TLDR, this movie was made to appease prequel haters and  OT worshipers, but i wouldn't call this the worst SW film. It still beats ep1 and 2.


Tackel | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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#1 - Empire Strikes Back
#2 - The Force Awakens
#3 - Return of the Jedi
#4 - A New Hope
#5 - Revenge of the Sith
#6 - The Clone Wars
#7 - Phantom Menace

I guess Attack of The Clones doesn't even deserve to be on the list?


Girl of Mystery | Mythic Unfrigginbelievable!
 
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A flower which blooms on the battlefield
#1 - Empire Strikes Back
#2 - The Force Awakens
#3 - Return of the Jedi
#4 - A New Hope
#5 - Revenge of the Sith
#6 - The Clone Wars
#7 - Phantom Menace

I guess Attack of The Clones doesn't even deserve to be on the list?
I confused TCW with AotC for some reason


Tackel | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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I appreciate your love for the prequels. RoTS is still to date my favorite film of the saga.

OT:
While the acting, script, and action were amazing. the general plot of the movie failed. If i wanted to watch ANH then i would just go watch ANH. Also like you stated in the TLDR, this movie was made to appease prequel haters and  OT worshipers, but i wouldn't call this the worst SW film. It still beats ep1 and 2.

I rank by enjoyment. Is TFA a better film? Yes. But I enjoy watching 1 and 2 more, because if I'm going to marathon all 7 movies before Episode VIII or Rouge One, I'm going to enjoy and original story more than a redone one. And that's the main aspect for a Star Wars movie to me.

TFA effects, acting, and dialogue is fantastic. But to me that means nothing if you can't get a good story. As George Lucas said, s special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing.

Also, I did not like how Abrams used the soundtrack. It felt very much like how George did it in Attack of the Clones. The films have great soundtracks, but then those soundtracks don't get used. Instead in editing they use the same themes over and over. I saw TFA 3 times and they must've used the binary sunset theme like 5 times. Same in ATOC when ever there was battle. It was the same music over and over. Bad editing I think.
Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 05:00:27 PM by Tackel


Girl of Mystery | Mythic Unfrigginbelievable!
 
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A flower which blooms on the battlefield
But to me that means nothing if you can't get a good story. As George Lucas said, s special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing.
Yet you think the prequels are great


Tackel | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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But to me that means nothing if you can't get a good story. As George Lucas said, s special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing.
Yet you think the prequels are great

They have an original story to follow, that's more than you can say for TFA. Whether you think it's a good story or not is something else.


Girl of Mystery | Mythic Unfrigginbelievable!
 
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A flower which blooms on the battlefield
But to me that means nothing if you can't get a good story. As George Lucas said, s special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing.
Yet you think the prequels are great

They have an original story to follow, that's more than you can say for TFA. Whether you think it's a good story or not is something else.
Being original means nothing if it's awful. And originality, or lack thereof, doesn't make something good or bad.

TPM was pure garbage, regardless of originality.
AotC was complete trash, regardless of originality.
RotJ was meh, regardless of originality.
TFA wasn't that original, but it did it better than ANH. That doesn't make it bad.

Originality means jack shit.

Halo CE is one of the most unoriginal cliché Sci-fi games around, yet people loved it.


Genghis Khan | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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Something was missing. Maybe it was Luke and Anakin Skywalker and the space battles.


Zizzy | Heroic Unstoppable!
 
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They say you are what you eat, but I don't remember eating mYsELF
Best Star Wars to date IMO