Just a quick question. Would you like this in Serious? =/
Hell, If I was offered the chance to hack off a limb and replace it with cybernetics then I'd gladly take it <.<
Quote from: Mr Psychologist on October 26, 2014, 12:07:42 PMHell, If I was offered the chance to hack off a limb and replace it with cybernetics then I'd gladly take it <.<Then you're making a mistake.
Thoughts on Cybernetic Military Implements
Thoughts on Cybernetic Implements
Quote from: TBlocks on October 26, 2014, 12:06:08 PMJust a quick question. Would you like this in Serious? =/I didn't put it in serious because it's a simple idea and discussion. There is no news coverage here, nothing of any real importance. Just a simple idea. Thoughts and musings have no place in the serious board if they don't have a base to go off of. Plus, the serious board is ded surprise big not.
Quote from: Sandtrap on October 26, 2014, 12:08:47 PMQuote from: Mr Psychologist on October 26, 2014, 12:07:42 PMHell, If I was offered the chance to hack off a limb and replace it with cybernetics then I'd gladly take it <.<Then you're making a mistake.I would strongly disagree >.>
So we're not allowed to single out other users, right? Mock them or anything? Because you're an idiot. Like, have you ever had any experience with any US Servicemen or the military at all? It is one of the greatest celebrations of diversity ever. Did you cook this entire thread up in five minutes. Because it's nearly incoherent. The US military has made greater strides towards accepting minorities of race, gender, and sex than any other non-special interest group in America. This has not always been the case prior to the 90's but it is now. You are correct in aspect. US servicemen are indoctrinated. We are, it's part of our training. But we are not indoctrinated in the combative sense that you are implying we are indoctrinated in the denotative sense of the word as exampled in this Merriam Webster's definition. Definition 1. Then with partisan support of our government. Though, very few ever join the armed forces without already a strong conviction in the principles this nation was founded on. Main Entry: in·doc·tri·nate Pronunciation: \in-ˈdäk-trə-ˌnāt\transitive verb1 : to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : teach 2 : to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principleWhat makes you think that a "military soldier" doesn't think for themselves? What gave you that impression? Was it an ignorance of the training we receive? Indoctrination to immediately respond to a scenario without having to think about it. A gut reflex that saves lives on the battlefield. What makes you think that becoming an armed servicemen erases your personality and leads you to blindly accept what your told? I don't even care about fucking cybernetics, I care about the lackadaisical way in which you portray my brother's in arms. A complete and total disregard for the humanity in each American that wears a uniform. You may not even realize how it looks to me and you probably think I'm overreacting but if I'm going to die for you, I'd rather you didn't disrespect me for no reason other than some half-cocked bullshit thread about cybernetics that follows no logical thought pattern.
Quote from: JimTheAdmin on October 26, 2014, 12:36:29 PMSo we're not allowed to single out other users, right? Mock them or anything? Because you're an idiot. Like, have you ever had any experience with any US Servicemen or the military at all? It is one of the greatest celebrations of diversity ever. Did you cook this entire thread up in five minutes. Because it's nearly incoherent. The US military has made greater strides towards accepting minorities of race, gender, and sex than any other non-special interest group in America. This has not always been the case prior to the 90's but it is now. You are correct in aspect. US servicemen are indoctrinated. We are, it's part of our training. But we are not indoctrinated in the combative sense that you are implying we are indoctrinated in the denotative sense of the word as exampled in this Merriam Webster's definition. Definition 1. Then with partisan support of our government. Though, very few ever join the armed forces without already a strong conviction in the principles this nation was founded on. Main Entry: in·doc·tri·nate Pronunciation: \in-ˈdäk-trə-ˌnāt\transitive verb1 : to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : teach 2 : to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principleWhat makes you think that a "military soldier" doesn't think for themselves? What gave you that impression? Was it an ignorance of the training we receive? Indoctrination to immediately respond to a scenario without having to think about it. A gut reflex that saves lives on the battlefield. What makes you think that becoming an armed servicemen erases your personality and leads you to blindly accept what your told? I don't even care about fucking cybernetics, I care about the lackadaisical way in which you portray my brother's in arms. A complete and total disregard for the humanity in each American that wears a uniform. You may not even realize how it looks to me and you probably think I'm overreacting but if I'm going to die for you, I'd rather you didn't disrespect me for no reason other than some half-cocked bullshit thread about cybernetics that follows no logical thought pattern. I never said anything of the sort. Never said that a soldier is not a person. A soldier is a person, in every sense of things. You know that fellow that got shot in Ottawa earlier in the week? He was a person.But it doesn't change the fact, that in order to do their job, soldiers need to be conditioned. I never said that every soldier was just a point and shoot wind up toy. But, think about it. A job like the military attracts those sorts of people. Personalities match the job that best suits them right?When I wrote this, I was thinking of the people out there who are, and do act as wind up constructs. But, I am aware that its a foolish generalization to hold. I watched soldiers protest the recent wars and events related to america, about shipping them off to countries where they weren't needed.I respect the job and the people who take it up, because it's sadly, an uglier part of our world, and a necessary one at that.
We our wemy brother's in arms.
Quote from: Sandtrap on October 26, 2014, 12:45:31 PMQuote from: JimTheAdmin on October 26, 2014, 12:36:29 PMSo we're not allowed to single out other users, right? Mock them or anything? Because you're an idiot. Like, have you ever had any experience with any US Servicemen or the military at all? It is one of the greatest celebrations of diversity ever. Did you cook this entire thread up in five minutes. Because it's nearly incoherent. The US military has made greater strides towards accepting minorities of race, gender, and sex than any other non-special interest group in America. This has not always been the case prior to the 90's but it is now. You are correct in aspect. US servicemen are indoctrinated. We are, it's part of our training. But we are not indoctrinated in the combative sense that you are implying we are indoctrinated in the denotative sense of the word as exampled in this Merriam Webster's definition. Definition 1. Then with partisan support of our government. Though, very few ever join the armed forces without already a strong conviction in the principles this nation was founded on. Main Entry: in·doc·tri·nate Pronunciation: \in-ˈdäk-trə-ˌnāt\transitive verb1 : to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : teach 2 : to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principleWhat makes you think that a "military soldier" doesn't think for themselves? What gave you that impression? Was it an ignorance of the training we receive? Indoctrination to immediately respond to a scenario without having to think about it. A gut reflex that saves lives on the battlefield. What makes you think that becoming an armed servicemen erases your personality and leads you to blindly accept what your told? I don't even care about fucking cybernetics, I care about the lackadaisical way in which you portray my brother's in arms. A complete and total disregard for the humanity in each American that wears a uniform. You may not even realize how it looks to me and you probably think I'm overreacting but if I'm going to die for you, I'd rather you didn't disrespect me for no reason other than some half-cocked bullshit thread about cybernetics that follows no logical thought pattern. I never said anything of the sort. Never said that a soldier is not a person. A soldier is a person, in every sense of things. You know that fellow that got shot in Ottawa earlier in the week? He was a person.But it doesn't change the fact, that in order to do their job, soldiers need to be conditioned. I never said that every soldier was just a point and shoot wind up toy. But, think about it. A job like the military attracts those sorts of people. Personalities match the job that best suits them right?When I wrote this, I was thinking of the people out there who are, and do act as wind up constructs. But, I am aware that its a foolish generalization to hold. I watched soldiers protest the recent wars and events related to america, about shipping them off to countries where they weren't needed.I respect the job and the people who take it up, because it's sadly, an uglier part of our world, and a necessary one at that.I apologize. I read generalizations and implications in your text that you most definitely did not mean. I see that now. And I apologize if my rash behavior offended you.
Okay. Let's just sit down a minute here. I knew this was going to lure you of all people here.
Look at your body. What is it? It's the result of a very, very long line of evolution. A process that's slowly been perfected to the best that it can be made over a very long period of slow, gradual, natural adjustments.
But still holds merit.
We fight to survive. To keep going. And that means, that life, the life we hold, is important.
Because if it wasn't, why would we fight so hard to keep it?
You would abuse it.
Let alone perfectly replicating them into a synthetic counterpart.
What happens, when you take away what you have, that already functions well on it's own? What happens, when you replace it with something that functions better, but lacks the spark and the feeling that only a hand, or an arm will ever provide?
You lose control. You lose feeling.
Your survival instinct, the will to survive another day, vanishes.
And when that happens, every door is open to all the darkest things that lurk in our heads.
Quote from: JimTheAdmin on October 26, 2014, 12:36:29 PM We our wemy brother's in arms. Wait, when did this happen?
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 26, 2014, 12:50:09 PMQuote from: JimTheAdmin on October 26, 2014, 12:36:29 PM We our wemy brother's in arms. Wait, when did this happen?Months ago but I had it in the works for years. Just waiting for my age to catch up to my life decisions.
Quote from: JimTheAdmin on October 26, 2014, 12:50:57 PMQuote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 26, 2014, 12:50:09 PMQuote from: JimTheAdmin on October 26, 2014, 12:36:29 PM We our wemy brother's in arms. Wait, when did this happen?Months ago but I had it in the works for years. Just waiting for my age to catch up to my life decisions.Oh. Congrats. What'cha going in for?
Relax Jim. I'm sure Sandtrap meant no slight.Quote from: Sandtrap on October 26, 2014, 12:22:35 PMOkay. Let's just sit down a minute here. I knew this was going to lure you of all people here. "And that's when the attack comes, not from the front, but from the side. One Goji, you didn't even know was there."XDQuoteLook at your body. What is it? It's the result of a very, very long line of evolution. A process that's slowly been perfected to the best that it can be made over a very long period of slow, gradual, natural adjustments.It's hardly the best that it can be made. As you've said it, our bodies are products of evolution. i.e. mutations, changes which are seeded based on positive reaction to environmental stimuli.QuoteBut still holds merit.What holds merit?QuoteWe fight to survive. To keep going. And that means, that life, the life we hold, is important. Why? I know you explain it in the next line, but that's basically begging the question.Why is it important? Are you referring to intrinsic importance? Extrinsic? Who is the observer to create valuation of importance here?QuoteBecause if it wasn't, why would we fight so hard to keep it?Appeal to nature here. All appeals to nature like this can easily be defeated by, well, other appeals to nature: what if the logical endpoint of evolution is to get to a point where a species is intelligent enough to create synthetic replacements? Answer: You can't operate on one hypothetical without looking at the other.QuoteYou would abuse it. I would say that "abuse" of it wouldn't be a bad thing.QuoteLet alone perfectly replicating them into a synthetic counterpart.Replication isn't the purpose- revision is.QuoteWhat happens, when you take away what you have, that already functions well on it's own? What happens, when you replace it with something that functions better, but lacks the spark and the feeling that only a hand, or an arm will ever provide?You negate the problems of associated with flesh. You upgrade your body. And you upgrade your mind.QuoteYou lose control. You lose feeling. Erm... you do realize that feelings are simply neurotransmitters traveling through axons throughout your body and registering electrical impulses right? And that prosthetic arms are being developed which can perfectly replicate the sensation of touch as well, correct? If you truly want feeling, it can still be done with cybernetics. QuoteYour survival instinct, the will to survive another day, vanishes.And perhaps we can replace it with something better. Something more cerebral. QuoteAnd when that happens, every door is open to all the darkest things that lurk in our heads.I'm ready.Then again, I'm super crazy supportive when it comes to synthetics/AI/H+ movements in general.
Okay. Let's just sit down a minute here. I knew this was going to lure you of all people here. So let's get down to brass tacks.
But, what is the most important thing that you're missing here, is that your body clings to life. It fights for survival. Every part of you will fight to the bitter end to keep going. Part of it is a natural, ingrained survival instinct. The other part, is less grounded. But still holds merit.
We fight to survive. To keep going. And that means, that life, the life we hold, is important. Because if it wasn't, why would we fight so hard to keep it?
As I said, I support synthetic implants for those who need them.
But you know what that drive of yours tells me? That want to remove something of yours that isn't broken?You would abuse it. And so would others. Not only that, but, I believe we're thousands of years off from even understanding how our own bodies truly work. Let alone perfectly replicating them into a synthetic counterpart.
So, I pose my wager to you.What happens, when you take away what you have, that already functions well on it's own? What happens, when you replace it with something that functions better, but lacks the spark and the feeling that only a hand, or an arm will ever provide?You lose control. You lose feeling. What happens to those that lose that feeling? Suicide. Depression. Psychotic tendancies emerge.
The more you remove from yourself, the more detached you become from the reality around you. Your empathy, your feelings, will degrade because that ancient, primal force in your original body is gone. Your survival instinct, the will to survive another day, vanishes.
So, unless you can create a body part, that can perfectly replicate every single feeling in a finger for example, the tension of skin and muscle, the sting or feel of touch or pain, the ache when moved too far, the tiredness of tendons having to much strain on them, and everything else that you feel, then all I have to say is.
Your move.
The point to be made here is, when you look at the current state of the world, we aren't ready to start lobbing off body parts and replacing them. Even today, our technology is moving faster than we are. It's accelerating faster than we can naturally evolve. And that's the point. If we try to run before we walk, we're going to fall on our asses.By the time something as fine tuned as cybernetics comes out at the level I mention, we'll be thousands of years behind them in terms of brain capacity to handle what comes with them.
Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 26, 2014, 12:52:26 PMQuote from: JimTheAdmin on October 26, 2014, 12:50:57 PMQuote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 26, 2014, 12:50:09 PMQuote from: JimTheAdmin on October 26, 2014, 12:36:29 PM We our wemy brother's in arms. Wait, when did this happen?Months ago but I had it in the works for years. Just waiting for my age to catch up to my life decisions.Oh. Congrats. What'cha going in for?In training for 9S100, Technical Applications Specialist. When I finish my job will be monitoring the world and making sure no one is violating the nuclear weapon test ban treaties traditionally through seismographs and air filters that detect gamma radiation particles in the air. I could be an analyst who interprets collected data or a maintainer who travels to the remote sensing locations and maintains the sensitive equipment used to detect treaty violations.
Quote from: JimTheAdmin on October 26, 2014, 12:55:21 PMQuote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 26, 2014, 12:52:26 PMQuote from: JimTheAdmin on October 26, 2014, 12:50:57 PMQuote from: DAS B00T x2 on October 26, 2014, 12:50:09 PMQuote from: JimTheAdmin on October 26, 2014, 12:36:29 PM We our wemy brother's in arms. Wait, when did this happen?Months ago but I had it in the works for years. Just waiting for my age to catch up to my life decisions.Oh. Congrats. What'cha going in for?In training for 9S100, Technical Applications Specialist. When I finish my job will be monitoring the world and making sure no one is violating the nuclear weapon test ban treaties traditionally through seismographs and air filters that detect gamma radiation particles in the air. I could be an analyst who interprets collected data or a maintainer who travels to the remote sensing locations and maintains the sensitive equipment used to detect treaty violations.Airforce seismograph stuff... that sounds so lively and entertaining.
I'm going to do the infamous quote snipping thing, not as it's an argument but because it's better to address each point distinctly <.<Quote from: Sandtrap on October 26, 2014, 12:22:35 PMOkay. Let's just sit down a minute here. I knew this was going to lure you of all people here. So let's get down to brass tacks.Heh of course >.>QuoteLook at your body. What is it? It's the result of a very, very long line of evolution. A process that's slowly been perfected to the best that it can be made over a very long period of slow, gradual, natural adjustments.The first part is correct, but humans are far from perfect. There are things to consider, bodies grow old and decay over time, your joints wear out and your eyesight will fail. We can use medicine to treat them but it doesn't fix the underlying flaw of natural biology. You could argue that machines fail and decay but at a slower rate, and that's what I would seek. The durability of robotics and the replace-ability of robotics supersedes that of organics.QuoteBut, what is the most important thing that you're missing here, is that your body clings to life. It fights for survival. Every part of you will fight to the bitter end to keep going. Part of it is a natural, ingrained survival instinct. The other part, is less grounded. But still holds merit.Here I would make the distinction of how I value my gestalt.The body is a vessel to house the mind, very little more. If there is no mind or sentience there then it is simply a shell, lower than that of a basic animal which exists solely for the purpose of continuing it's existence and lineage. The mind however, is so much more. The gift of sentience is to be treasured and prolonged as much as it can be, if that means replacing the organics of the vessel with inorganics then I'm quite at peace with that.QuoteWe fight to survive. To keep going. And that means, that life, the life we hold, is important. Because if it wasn't, why would we fight so hard to keep it?Of course, and the reason I would replace organics with robotics is simple to continue that fight against death.
The body is equally as important as the mind. It's a vessel. But the two are necessary. And I'll tell you why in a bit. The mind influences the body. The body influences the mind. But, first, things to do. I'll be back.
The body is equally as important as the mind.
Thoughts on Cybernetic Military Implements
