Spoiler Star Wars Spoilers (Seriously. Spoilers ahead)

Azumarill · December 19, 2015, 01:15:31 PM

Quote from: Lemnator on December 19, 2015, 01:12:51 PM

Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 01:05:14 PM

Quote from: Lemnator on December 19, 2015, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 12:55:47 PM

Quote from: LC on December 19, 2015, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 12:52:23 PM

Quote from: LC on December 19, 2015, 12:49:47 PM
Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: Comet on December 19, 2015, 12:45:01 PM
Quote from: Snowtrap on December 19, 2015, 12:29:33 PM
I'd put money down on it being her quick grasp of the force.
point for sandy
I'm gonna chalk that point up to a little theory of her being the secret daughter of a really powerful Jedi.

Anakin was space Jesus and even he didn't master it that quickly.
I do sort of see where you're coming from
Anakin was also a whiny bitch who was clouded by anger (and the prequels.)

Luke was the son of space Jesus and didn't master it that quickly.
He was never given the chance to though. And in the first couple minutes of him being with Obi Wan on the Falcon he was blocking laser shots blindfolded really quickly.
Blocking shots isn't even remotely comparable to beating a highly trained Sith
For some reason Ren didn't strike me as the "highly trained Sith" type.
He looked very much like Anakin when he was angry. Very emotionally driven, clouded by confusion, and incomplete as a Sith. Like hell he was even telling Snoke about his light side feelings. That indicated to me that he's far from a Sith master or even a Sith in general. If you catch my drift.
Kylo is still much more trained, as opposed to Rey being an asspull.

They showed us at the beginning of the film that Rey was a talented melee combatant. It's not an asspull; it's consistent characterization. Ben is clearly exceedingly weak, compared to other Jedi and Sith in the series. It makes sense that someone as talented as Rey would be able to defeat him, especially in his injured state.

TB · December 19, 2015, 01:18:13 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on December 19, 2015, 01:15:31 PM

Quote from: Lemnator on December 19, 2015, 01:12:51 PM
Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 01:05:14 PM

Quote from: Lemnator on December 19, 2015, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 12:55:47 PM

Quote from: LC on December 19, 2015, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 12:52:23 PM

Quote from: LC on December 19, 2015, 12:49:47 PM
Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: Comet on December 19, 2015, 12:45:01 PM
Quote from: Snowtrap on December 19, 2015, 12:29:33 PM
I'd put money down on it being her quick grasp of the force.
point for sandy
I'm gonna chalk that point up to a little theory of her being the secret daughter of a really powerful Jedi.

Anakin was space Jesus and even he didn't master it that quickly.
I do sort of see where you're coming from
Anakin was also a whiny bitch who was clouded by anger (and the prequels.)

Luke was the son of space Jesus and didn't master it that quickly.
He was never given the chance to though. And in the first couple minutes of him being with Obi Wan on the Falcon he was blocking laser shots blindfolded really quickly.
Blocking shots isn't even remotely comparable to beating a highly trained Sith
For some reason Ren didn't strike me as the "highly trained Sith" type.
He looked very much like Anakin when he was angry. Very emotionally driven, clouded by confusion, and incomplete as a Sith. Like hell he was even telling Snoke about his light side feelings. That indicated to me that he's far from a Sith master or even a Sith in general. If you catch my drift.
Kylo is still much more trained, as opposed to Rey being an asspull.
They showed us at the beginning of the film that Rey was a talented melee combatant. It's not an asspull; it's consistent characterization. Ben is clearly exceedingly weak, compared to other Jedi and Sith in the series. It makes sense that someone as talented as Rey would be able to defeat him, especially in his injured state.

That weakness would also play into the mental confusion that's already abundantly prevalent in him, as shown by the talking to Darth Vader's burned mask scene. He wants to be him but he knows he isn't as powerful.

Luciana · December 19, 2015, 01:19:16 PM

So did anyone else notice/get wet over the turret sound effect on the Millennium Falcon? That low THUMP THUMP THUMP along with the laser sound? Easily something that stood out to me the most.

Elai · December 19, 2015, 01:19:54 PM

Quote from: Lemnator on December 19, 2015, 01:12:51 PM

Kylo is still much more trained, as opposed to Rey being an asspull.

Speculation on my part, based on my understanding of the movies.

It appears post-Republic Jedi aren't actually given lightsaber training, though. We've never seen Luke training his technique with Obi-Wan or Yoda. It appears one's ability to handle themselves with a lightsaber is directly tied one's connection with the force. We can see that in Empire Strikes Back, when Luke is slightly more tuned-in to the Force and he's capable of fending off Vader, but ultimately loses. His technique doesn't improve at all in Return of the Jedi. He still swings it around like an amateur, yet he's able to win against Vader.

Rey cleary is an extremely force-sensitive character, and while Ben may be on the same level as her (think, midichlorian count or something), he's too clouded by ideals and emotions to fully utilise that (like others in this thread have already established.) It is not completely out of left field that she's capable of "winning" against an emotionally stressed, physically impaired Kilo Ren who, prior to his training, had probably never fought with a melee weapon in his life.

Azumarill · December 19, 2015, 01:22:36 PM

Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 01:18:13 PM

Quote from: Azumarill on December 19, 2015, 01:15:31 PM
Quote from: Lemnator on December 19, 2015, 01:12:51 PM
Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 01:05:14 PM

Quote from: Lemnator on December 19, 2015, 01:00:01 PM
Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 12:55:47 PM

Quote from: LC on December 19, 2015, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 12:52:23 PM

Quote from: LC on December 19, 2015, 12:49:47 PM
Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 12:46:34 PM
Quote from: Comet on December 19, 2015, 12:45:01 PM
Quote from: Snowtrap on December 19, 2015, 12:29:33 PM
I'd put money down on it being her quick grasp of the force.
point for sandy
I'm gonna chalk that point up to a little theory of her being the secret daughter of a really powerful Jedi.

Anakin was space Jesus and even he didn't master it that quickly.
I do sort of see where you're coming from
Anakin was also a whiny bitch who was clouded by anger (and the prequels.)

Luke was the son of space Jesus and didn't master it that quickly.
He was never given the chance to though. And in the first couple minutes of him being with Obi Wan on the Falcon he was blocking laser shots blindfolded really quickly.
Blocking shots isn't even remotely comparable to beating a highly trained Sith
For some reason Ren didn't strike me as the "highly trained Sith" type.
He looked very much like Anakin when he was angry. Very emotionally driven, clouded by confusion, and incomplete as a Sith. Like hell he was even telling Snoke about his light side feelings. That indicated to me that he's far from a Sith master or even a Sith in general. If you catch my drift.
Kylo is still much more trained, as opposed to Rey being an asspull.
They showed us at the beginning of the film that Rey was a talented melee combatant. It's not an asspull; it's consistent characterization. Ben is clearly exceedingly weak, compared to other Jedi and Sith in the series. It makes sense that someone as talented as Rey would be able to defeat him, especially in his injured state.
That weakness would also play into the mental confusion that's already abundantly prevalent in him, as shown by the talking to Darth Vader's burned mask scene. He wants to be him but he knows he isn't as powerful.

Yeah I think the Vader worship is a huuuuge mental block for him. It's like he's actually afraid of Vader's phantom, of living in his grandfather's shadow, and his own struggle with Force attunement plays into it and throws all his other emotions and thought processes out of wack. He can't be powerful with this mindset. He has to kill his obsession or he will be crushed by someone more determined.

Elai · December 19, 2015, 01:23:37 PM

The only thing I can really concede to being an "asspull" is the fact that she's a masterful pilot and she knows the Falcon better than Han. That seems kind of bullshit to me.

But honestly, that will be dealt with once they reveal her parentage. Luke (chosen one DNA + expert pilot/mechanic) and someone else (possibly another force-sensitive user, which explains Rey's ease at learning and using the force.)

Elai · December 19, 2015, 01:29:38 PM

I love the rivalry the movie has set up, though. Instead of having this Father vs. Son dynamic, where it was Luke who had to rise to the level of Vader, we have Apprentice vs. Padawan relationship where the two are actually rivals, pushing their limits to best the other. Kylo isn't much further ahead of Rey, and the same vice-versa.

The two should complete/progress in their training by Ep. 8.

Elai · December 19, 2015, 01:31:08 PM

I would also like to point out that Leia and Luke are pretty irresponsible people for having kids. Their family is so tied to the force that they should realise "Hey, maybe our kids will be our downfall. Let's stop doing that."

Azumarill · December 19, 2015, 01:45:58 PM

Azumarill · December 19, 2015, 01:59:56 PM

mark hamill better do a bunch of fuckin sweet jedi flips in episode viii.

Elai · December 19, 2015, 02:10:20 PM

I'm watching all of these trailers for the first time right now. They give away SO MUCH, what the hell.

You can't trust people these days to do anything right where hype is involved.

Elai · December 19, 2015, 02:11:22 PM

I'm also so fucking angry that Han's death and Kylo ren's heritage was spoiled for me. I would have had a much greater emotional reaction to it had it not been.

Deleted · December 19, 2015, 02:18:06 PM

Quote from: Ganon on December 19, 2015, 02:10:20 PM

I'm watching all of these trailers for the first time right now. They give away SO MUCH, what the hell.

You can't trust people these days to do anything right where hype is involved.

What? None of the trailers iv'e seen give anything away.

Nick McIntyre · December 19, 2015, 02:23:28 PM

Quote from: ChaosMetalDragon on December 19, 2015, 02:18:06 PM

Quote from: Ganon on December 19, 2015, 02:10:20 PM
I'm watching all of these trailers for the first time right now. They give away SO MUCH, what the hell.

You can't trust people these days to do anything right where hype is involved.

What? None of the trailers iv'e seen give anything away.

None of the American ones did, but the Chinese one caused a shit storm with how much it spoiled.

Elai · December 19, 2015, 02:26:44 PM

Quote from: ChaosMetalDragon on December 19, 2015, 02:18:06 PM

What? None of the trailers iv'e seen give anything away.

They showed so much from the movie. What are you talking about?

It was also ridiculously obvious that Finn wasn't the Jedi. I suspected it would be the girl from the beginning, but had I watched the trailers, I'd have been convinced based on how much Finn-shilling they were doing.

True Turquoise · December 19, 2015, 02:27:56 PM

Quote from: Luciana on December 19, 2015, 01:19:16 PM

So did anyone else notice/get wet over the turret sound effect on the Millennium Falcon? That low THUMP THUMP THUMP along with the laser sound? Easily something that stood out to me the most.

... Uh, sure?

Spartan · December 19, 2015, 02:28:42 PM

You can hear Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan in Rey's vision
https://twitter.com/jatactor/status/678299784621350912

big sponge · December 19, 2015, 02:43:21 PM

Poppin in for a second to say that being skilled in one form of martial arts does not mean you are skilled in another form of martial arts. Your training and experience with a spear or bo staff do not transfer to a sword or a battle axe. They're completely different weapons that require a different set of skills to master.

Elai · December 19, 2015, 02:47:14 PM

Quote from: LC on December 19, 2015, 02:43:21 PM

Poppin in for a second to say that being skilled in one form of martial arts does not mean you are skilled in another form of martial arts.

Certainly some of the skills you pick up in one form of training carry over to another, like the consistency of swings, reaction time, and balance.

Rey was just proficient in hand-to-hand combat, that's all. Those skills definitely carry over.

Jono · December 19, 2015, 02:49:30 PM

Spoiler

I cannot wait to see Luke train Rey in Ep 8. Yoda training Luke was was one of my favorite segments from Empire Strikes Back and I hope in Ep 8, we see Yoda and Obi Wan force ghosts to tell Rey some things about the Force.

big sponge · December 19, 2015, 02:52:21 PM

Quote from: Ganon on December 19, 2015, 02:47:14 PM

Quote from: LC on December 19, 2015, 02:43:21 PM
Poppin in for a second to say that being skilled in one form of martial arts does not mean you are skilled in another form of martial arts.

Certainly some of the skills you pick up in one form of training carry over to another, like the consistency of swings, reaction time, and balance.

Rey was just proficient in hand-to-hand combat, that's all. Those skills definitely carry over.

Umm, no because that's going to differ based on martial art of choice. Go ahead and try to wield a spear like you would a sword or an axe like you would your fist. See how well it works out for you when you're fighting someone who's actually familiar with the weapon they're using.

Elai · December 19, 2015, 02:52:49 PM

Quote from: Jono on December 19, 2015, 02:49:30 PM

I cannot wait to see Luke train Rey in Ep 8. Yoda training Luke was was one of my favorite segments from Empire Strikes Back and I hope in Ep 8, we see Yoda and Obi Wan force ghosts to tell Rey some things about the Force.

We won't. Alec Guiness died some time ago, and I'm sure I'm on the same page as the producers of Ep. 8 when I say that I'd rather not see a half-assed attempt of recasting or CGI-ing him.

Also, there's no need to spoiler-tag stuff. There's already a spoiler tag in the OP.

Jono · December 19, 2015, 02:55:18 PM

Quote from: Ganon on December 19, 2015, 02:52:49 PM

Quote from: Jono on December 19, 2015, 02:49:30 PM
I cannot wait to see Luke train Rey in Ep 8. Yoda training Luke was was one of my favorite segments from Empire Strikes Back and I hope in Ep 8, we see Yoda and Obi Wan force ghosts to tell Rey some things about the Force.

We won't. Alec Guiness died some time ago, and I'm sure I'm on the same page as the producers of Ep. 8 when I say that I'd rather not see a half-assed attempt of recasting or CGI-ing him.

Also, there's no need to spoiler-tag stuff. There's already a spoiler tag in the OP.

There's nothing wrong with using Ewan McGregor as Obi Wan. He played the character extremely well in the prequels.

TB · December 19, 2015, 02:58:44 PM

Quote from: Jono on December 19, 2015, 02:55:18 PM

Quote from: Ganon on December 19, 2015, 02:52:49 PM
Quote from: Jono on December 19, 2015, 02:49:30 PM
I cannot wait to see Luke train Rey in Ep 8. Yoda training Luke was was one of my favorite segments from Empire Strikes Back and I hope in Ep 8, we see Yoda and Obi Wan force ghosts to tell Rey some things about the Force.

We won't. Alec Guiness died some time ago, and I'm sure I'm on the same page as the producers of Ep. 8 when I say that I'd rather not see a half-assed attempt of recasting or CGI-ing him.

Also, there's no need to spoiler-tag stuff. There's already a spoiler tag in the OP.
There's nothing wrong with using Ewan McGregor as Obi Wan. He played the character extremely well in the prequels.

If they are able to successfully make Ewan look exactly like Alec and Obi Wan and Yoda make an appearance in 8 that would be incredible... My god that idea.

Elai · December 19, 2015, 02:58:55 PM

Quote from: LC on December 19, 2015, 02:52:21 PM

Umm, no because that's going to differ based on martial art of choice.

No it isn't. Your ability to dodge a blow isn't going to change if you're using staff or a sword. Your ability to stay on your feet isn't going to change if you're using your fists or an axe.

Quote

Go ahead and try to wield a spear like you would a sword or an axe like you would your fist.

Are you serious, LC? Where did I say this?

Muscle memory will carry over some of the skills from one form to another. Have you ever trained anything? It's like sports -- improving your core in one sport will carry over as a benefit to another. If I'm capable of great balance in football, am I suddenly going to forget how to stand up straight when playing soccer? No.

Elai · December 19, 2015, 03:00:15 PM

Quote from: Jono on December 19, 2015, 02:55:18 PM

There's nothing wrong with using Ewan McGregor as Obi Wan.

You mean aside from the visual and canonical inconsistency of Empire Strikes Back/Return of the Jedi's Alec Guinness ghost? Sure.

That would feel very shoehorned.

TB · December 19, 2015, 03:02:15 PM

Quote from: Ganon on December 19, 2015, 02:58:55 PM

Quote from: LC on December 19, 2015, 02:52:21 PM
Umm, no because that's going to differ based on martial art of choice.

No it isn't. Your ability to dodge a blow isn't going to change if you're using staff or a sword. Your ability to stay on your feet isn't going to change if you're using your fists or an axe.

Quote
Go ahead and try to wield a spear like you would a sword or an axe like you would your fist.

Are you serious, LC? Where did I say this?

Muscle memory will carry over some of the skills from one form to another. Have you ever trained anything? It's like sports -- improving your core in one sport will carry over as a benefit to another. If I'm capable of great balance in football, am I suddenly going to forget how to stand up straight when playing soccer? No.

I can attest to the last point.
My skills learned while playing baseball as a kid have carried over and improved my ability in many other sports. Eye-Hand coordination being an exceptionally big one.
So yes, it does carry over in some facet.

Elai · December 19, 2015, 03:02:18 PM

Quote from: LC on December 19, 2015, 02:52:21 PM

I don't mind criticising Star Wars, but what you're doing is suicide.

Elai · December 19, 2015, 03:02:48 PM

Quote from: TBlocks on December 19, 2015, 03:02:15 PM

I can attest to the last point.
My skills learned while playing baseball as a kid have carried over and improved my ability in many other sports. Eye-Hand coordination being an exceptionally big one.
So yes, it does carry over in some facet.

Exactly. That's my point.

Jono · December 19, 2015, 03:05:08 PM

Quote from: Ganon on December 19, 2015, 03:02:18 PM

Quote from: LC on December 19, 2015, 02:52:21 PM

I don't mind criticising Star Wars, but what you're doing is suicide.

I hate it when he does that