So I’m reading The Communist Manifesto/Das Kapital

Ian · January 04, 2020, 06:20:01 PM

This book fucking sucks. Talk about a bunch of ideas/beliefs that haven’t aged well. the more I read it the more I’m confused at how Marxism was taken seriously.

In chapter 2 he talks about how the ruling class only wants marriage so that they can turn their wives into working serfs. It’s funny that around sixty years later in a conservative America that the wife working was a revolutionary idea, completely at odds with what he claimed.

Or how a middle-class person doesn’t exist at all in his mind. In his point of view it’s just hopping between being some caricature of a fat cat or literally starving on the streets.

I get that I have to take into account the time period and location he was in, but all of his notions of how society would turn out is ending up false and is backed by nothing but his own opinion.

Ingy · January 04, 2020, 08:27:18 PM

USA USA USA

Genghis Khan · January 05, 2020, 04:55:09 AM

They are eating rats in Venezuela for food.

rC · January 05, 2020, 08:14:30 AM

fucking lib

DAS B00T x2 · January 05, 2020, 08:21:05 AM

Dude was a Jew who was bad at money. You expect him to speak sensibly?

Ian · January 05, 2020, 10:38:27 AM

It would've been a good read if this was meant to be a college paper on "how to fix the entirety of human existence in 40 pages or less". But unfortunately for Marxists, such a feat is impossible and I expected more from someone who claims he knows how the world works, even if he actually doesn't.

It's funny you mention his life though. People would for years claim that an old man that can't even manage his own finances and write as legible as chicken scratches (that had to be translated by his fucking wife) was not a good fit for telling entire counties how to run their economy; but people would claim that's a ad hominem to him and say we shouldn't ignore the actual content of what he was preaching.

Lo and behold his actual content that he preached is straight up trash.

Quote from: DAS B00T x2 on January 05, 2020, 08:21:05 AM

Dude was a Jew who was bad at money. You expect him to speak sensibly?

Ian · January 05, 2020, 10:39:39 AM

So the book also came with Das Kapital by Engels. I'm gonna read that now and see if this has more sense than good ol' Karl.

Verbatim · January 05, 2020, 10:48:46 AM

i'm sure this was a completely unbiased close reading done in good faith with no preconceived notions whatsoever

Ian · January 05, 2020, 11:39:40 AM

I’m not afraid to admit that I went into the book with the mindset against Socialism. But I still hoped to find something I could agree with him on. But when you have such a false view of the world that is objectively just untrue, everything else that builds upon that foundation is going to be difficult to justify.

Quote from: Verbatim on January 05, 2020, 10:48:46 AM

i'm sure this was a completely unbiased close reading done in good faith with no preconceived notions whatsoever

DAS B00T x2 · January 05, 2020, 01:44:39 PM

Quote from: Ian on January 05, 2020, 10:38:27 AM

Lo and behold his actual content that he preached is straight up trash.

I mean

Ingy · January 05, 2020, 03:34:55 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on January 05, 2020, 10:48:46 AM

i'm sure this was a completely unbiased close reading done in good faith with no preconceived notions whatsoever

I don’t know man
An ideology that’s killed millions tends to leave a bad taste

Verbatim · January 05, 2020, 03:43:14 PM

Quote from: Ingy on January 05, 2020, 03:34:55 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on January 05, 2020, 10:48:46 AM
i'm sure this was a completely unbiased close reading done in good faith with no preconceived notions whatsoever
I don’t know man
An ideology that’s killed millions tends to leave a bad taste

how could it have killed anybody when it was never implemented

Ingy · January 05, 2020, 04:05:36 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on January 05, 2020, 03:43:14 PM

Quote from: Ingy on January 05, 2020, 03:34:55 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on January 05, 2020, 10:48:46 AM
i'm sure this was a completely unbiased close reading done in good faith with no preconceived notions whatsoever
I don’t know man
An ideology that’s killed millions tends to leave a bad taste
how could it have killed anybody when it was never implemented

So you’re saying it’s impossible to implement due to human nature

I agree

nͫiͤcͫeͤ · January 05, 2020, 04:58:45 PM

communism is basically vaporware

Verbatim · January 05, 2020, 10:28:31 PM

Quote from: Ingy on January 05, 2020, 04:05:36 PM

Quote from: Verbatim on January 05, 2020, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: Ingy on January 05, 2020, 03:34:55 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on January 05, 2020, 10:48:46 AM
i'm sure this was a completely unbiased close reading done in good faith with no preconceived notions whatsoever
I don’t know man
An ideology that’s killed millions tends to leave a bad taste
how could it have killed anybody when it was never implemented
So you’re saying it’s impossible to implement due to human nature

I agree

thank you for admitting that communism is great but humanity is garbage

however, given the rising number of people choosing not to have children, among other things that we're traditionally expected to do as a species, breaking this oh-so-incorrigible chain of human nature in a variety of ways, it seems overly defeatist (at best) to make an argument from futility like this

Ingy · January 06, 2020, 01:39:03 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on January 05, 2020, 10:28:31 PM

Quote from: Ingy on January 05, 2020, 04:05:36 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on January 05, 2020, 03:43:14 PM
Quote from: Ingy on January 05, 2020, 03:34:55 PM
Quote from: Verbatim on January 05, 2020, 10:48:46 AM
i'm sure this was a completely unbiased close reading done in good faith with no preconceived notions whatsoever
I don’t know man
An ideology that’s killed millions tends to leave a bad taste
how could it have killed anybody when it was never implemented
So you’re saying it’s impossible to implement due to human nature

I agree
thank you for admitting that communism is great but humanity is garbage

however, given the rising number of people choosing not to have children, among other things that we're traditionally expected to do as a species, breaking this oh-so-incorrigible chain of human nature in a variety of ways, it seems overly defeatist (at best) to make an argument from futility like this

Except not everybody shares the same idea of what direction humanity should go so it would be tyranny to try and enforce any one view on them

I mean you specifically state that having no children is good, some people don’t believe that

Verbatim · January 06, 2020, 01:48:50 AM

Quote from: Ingy on January 06, 2020, 01:39:03 AM

Except not everybody shares the same idea of what direction humanity should go so it would be tyranny to try and enforce any one view on them

I mean you specifically state that having no children is good, some people don’t believe that

it's like that's why we debate or something

Ingy · January 06, 2020, 01:53:48 AM

Quote from: Verbatim on January 06, 2020, 01:48:50 AM

Quote from: Ingy on January 06, 2020, 01:39:03 AM
Except not everybody shares the same idea of what direction humanity should go so it would be tyranny to try and enforce any one view on them

I mean you specifically state that having no children is good, some people don’t believe that
it's like that's why we debate or something

Yeah but you’re implying we’ll get to the point where we’ll stop debating and everyone will embrace socialism for some reason which will never happen

MarKhan · January 06, 2020, 07:05:49 AM

YouTube

rC · January 06, 2020, 09:48:57 AM

Quote from: nͫiͤcͫeͤ on January 05, 2020, 04:58:45 PM

communism is basically vaporwave